Loss of yacht - lessons to learn

[snowleopard]

Let's keep this one civil.

Do we need to think again about some conventional wisdom?

The whole 'step up into the liferaft' mantra becomes a very bad idea if there is a sudden inversion. Should we rather make sure everyone is in a position where they won't be trapped in an inversion? Or is being out in the cockpit, cold and wet, in heavy weather a worse risk?

In practical terms, rafts should be stowed in a place accessible from the water whether upright or inverted. In multihulls we're well aware of the risk and usually put them where we can reach them with the boat inverted. In this case a rail mounting or a recess in the transom might have made a difference.

What else?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

To be honest, all the lessons have been learned. Read publications like 'Total Loss', they are all there. Some times big things happen and the best laid plans are worthless.

 

[zikzik]

Or - what could reduce the risk of a sudden inversion?

 

[jerrytug]

Or - what could reduce the risk of a sudden inversion?

An integral keel with encapsulated ballast.

 

[guernseyman]

Or - what could reduce the risk of a sudden inversion?

An inflatable bag at the top of the main mast.

 

[Downsman]

At the time of manufacture all yachts with bolt on keels should have a small recess moulded into the hull which is covered when the keel is finally fitted. A block of hard compressed distress orange colour dye in a suitably protective,but salt water soluble covering should be sealed in the recess when the keel is fitted and the joint made watertight.
If you return to your boat in the marina and she's floating surrounded by orange water,... your keel joint is wonky.
If she developes a leak at sea and the water in the bilge is orange...see above...and you know it's not the heads leaking (consider getting the liferaft squared away for launch)
In the worst case scenario and you lose the keel, the upturned hull at least for a while,will have a dye marker to assist air search.

 

[LadyInBed]

Or - what could reduce the risk of a sudden inversion?

To misquote Snowleopard - One keel good, two keels better.

 

[zikzik]

An integral keel with encapsulated ballast.

Well, its what I have! Not the most suitable for racing in modern times maybe, but perhaps safer for an atlantic crossing.

Who knows, maybe they hit the keel without knowing while racing in Antigua and it started to break away later? Whatever, its a sad loss of life.

 

[Horace]

How about if the life raft on deck was wired to a ring bolt in the keel & fitted with a sort of firing mechanism then the minute the keel fell off it could be propelled into space like an ejector seat?

 

[AndrewB]

No.1 lesson: make sure your yacht is seaworthy. Ultimately, it's not the designer's responsibility, or the builder's, or the surveyor's, or the rescue services, but yours and yours alone.

 

[HunterWanderer]

I'm horrified that Beneteau bolt a 2 ton keel to their hull with 6 or 7 bolts with just large washers on the inside. It would also seem that all the bolts are in line. Any lateral load must put tremendous loads on the hull GRP. Surely designers should allow for some grounding in a boats life because it does happen often. If the structure cannot take a typical grounding they will get a very bad press if keels fall off. Bavs first suffered loss of reputation, then Jeanneau by a keel coming off with hardly a touch and now it would seem Beneteau also.

My old boat has a big flange at the top of the keel . There are 6 bolts spaced at least 12" centres across the centre line and there is a stainless steel plate 1/2" thick 4" wide and goes right across both bolts which are at least 1" diameter. The flange is recessed into the hull moulding so it doesent add drag. So boats with bolted on keels can be designed strongly.

Just think what would happen to a car makers reputation if the wheels fell off if the the car hit a kerb at some time in its past. Designers have to allow for some misuse by the user. Someone ought to tell Bruce Farr!

 

[Sailfree]

If some insurance companies insist on a 10yr rigging check should we check at least the rear keel bolts on some sort of periodic basis?

 

[JumbleDuck]

It is ironic that in this case the liferaft may actually have contributed indirectly to the loss of the crew. If they hadn't had a liferaft, and felt confident that it could be used, would that have tried to cross the Atlantic in bad weather in a boat with an unknown leak? I suspect that they would not.

 

[Sybarite]

Let's keep this one civil.

Do we need to think again about some conventional wisdom?

The whole 'step up into the liferaft' mantra becomes a very bad idea if there is a sudden inversion. Should we rather make sure everyone is in a position where they won't be trapped in an inversion? Or is being out in the cockpit, cold and wet, in heavy weather a worse risk?

In practical terms, rafts should be stowed in a place accessible from the water whether upright or inverted. In multihulls we're well aware of the risk and usually put them where we can reach them with the boat inverted. In this case a rail mounting or a recess in the transom might have made a difference.

What else?

Unsinkability such as in the Etaps.
Inflatable flotation collar around the boat, incorporated into the design.
Don't inflate life jackets inside the boat; more difficult to exit if inverted.
Metal boats for ocean crossings.
Transom mounted liferafts (Does an uninflated raft still float? ie If one breaks free but the inflation is not yet activated...)
Wearing of survival suits when storm force winds are there.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Metal boats for ocean crossings..

What, like the French designed, French built, French Ovni that sank recently crossing the Atlantic?

 

[Sybarite]

What, like the French designed, French built, French Ovni that sank recently crossing the Atlantic?

It wasn't an OVNI. It was an Alliage 44.

It's no accident that metal is the first choice for those doing high latitude expeditionary trips.

 

[TQA]

It wasn't an OVNI. It was an Alliage 44.

It's no accident that metal is the first choice for those doing high latitude expeditionary trips.

I think you are talking about the yacht Taos which was in the same general area and also suffering from strong winds.

It is worth reading their account for the section on what happened when they deployed their liferaft. It broke free and disappeared downwind before anyone was able to board.

 

[cliff]

Or - what could reduce the risk of a sudden inversion?

Having a keel that didn't fall off (or fall off easily)

 

[DownWest]

It is ironic that in this case the liferaft may actually have contributed indirectly to the loss of the crew. If they hadn't had a liferaft, and felt confident that it could be used, would that have tried to cross the Atlantic in bad weather in a boat with an unknown leak? I suspect that they would not.

Uh? Don't think they set off with a leak, it was reported the day before they went missing.

And your first comment is a bit in line with spikes on the car steering wheel and no seat belts. The life raft has to be a last resort. I don't think anybody sets off thinking it is an alternative to get home. At the time of the Fastnet in 79, I couldn't help thinking that LRs were basicly the same as the wartime aircraft types. Only likely to be used in moderate weather, as ditching in gale conditions was probably terminal. As we know, modifications were made in the light of that event.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Like most, I would say sudden inversion is a total nightmare that you couldn't possibly 'prepare for' by stowing the liferaft/EPIRB/grab bags etc in clever places. I want to have the confidence that the keel - a totally vital and integral part of the boat to keep it afloat and upright - isn't at risk of falling off, except in circumstances where the entire yacht was disintegrating.

That said, there it seems to me there might have been an opportunity early on to spot that something was seriously amiss. The yacht started taking on water some time before contact was lost. If they had been able to find out why, and realised that the keel was loose, they could probably have prepared for what happened. Maybe it would be sensible to carry a wetsuit and mask on board: if you start taking on water and can't work out why, it's got to be a good idea to have a look at the outside of the hull (if conditions allow of course) to identify damage or structural problems.

I've operated a Category 0 Coded boat, and some of the requirements are certainly OTT, and generally I don't think you can take a 'tick-in-the-box' approach to safety. What you need is a realistic assessment to the risks, and the risks will be different depending on whether you are sailing an old fashioned, over-engineered boat, or a hard-working modern racing craft.