Newbroom
Active member
Should read mid 90s
Looking at Traders: mad, or what?
- Thread starter MapisM
- Start date
Newbroom
Active member
should read mid 90s
Hardmy
Member
If I am not mistaken, Traders, Horizon and Kha Shing in the 45-50 bracket had for some time the same hull which was designed in the nineties by Tom Fexas.
For the construction, Horizon was cooperating with Kha Shing and Traders were fully built by Kha Shing. They are still in business today with the Montefino brand. In the nineties, Kha Shing was considered to be among the better taiwanese builders.
I see many similarities between my Kha Shing and Traders. Solid stainless steel fittings, lots of good quality wood inside, heavy hull, fantastic accommodation. And she is very easy to handle for us two. On the downside, of course the boat is prone to roll quite a lot and some hulls have osmosis problems. No boat is perfect...
2 1/2 half seasons and 2000 NM later (we cruised from N-Italy down to Keffalonia in Greece), we are still very happy with her. We cruise at gentle 8-9 kts but it's good to have some ponies in reserve to reach 19 kts. But I do it quite rarely I must say.
During a voyage from Bari to Corfu in one leg, with a F5 (according to meteo lamma) on the nose during the whole trip. We had from time to time a green wave over the windscreen, hence the need to proceed quite slowly. The two friends with me were ill most of the time. It’s the crew who was at its limits, but not the boat! About the overall look, I agree that the aft is not very gracious (especially my king size home-made passerelle). But from profile / front it is quite OK I think.
My impression is that those boats are not so much in fashion nowadays. You can get them for little money... IMHO you will not waste your time if at least you visit a couple of those.
For the construction, Horizon was cooperating with Kha Shing and Traders were fully built by Kha Shing. They are still in business today with the Montefino brand. In the nineties, Kha Shing was considered to be among the better taiwanese builders.
I see many similarities between my Kha Shing and Traders. Solid stainless steel fittings, lots of good quality wood inside, heavy hull, fantastic accommodation. And she is very easy to handle for us two. On the downside, of course the boat is prone to roll quite a lot and some hulls have osmosis problems. No boat is perfect...
2 1/2 half seasons and 2000 NM later (we cruised from N-Italy down to Keffalonia in Greece), we are still very happy with her. We cruise at gentle 8-9 kts but it's good to have some ponies in reserve to reach 19 kts. But I do it quite rarely I must say.
During a voyage from Bari to Corfu in one leg, with a F5 (according to meteo lamma) on the nose during the whole trip. We had from time to time a green wave over the windscreen, hence the need to proceed quite slowly. The two friends with me were ill most of the time. It’s the crew who was at its limits, but not the boat! About the overall look, I agree that the aft is not very gracious (especially my king size home-made passerelle). But from profile / front it is quite OK I think.
My impression is that those boats are not so much in fashion nowadays. You can get them for little money... IMHO you will not waste your time if at least you visit a couple of those.
IDAMAY
Active member
Further to Nigel's earlier comments, our Trader is in fact a 54 which, I think, shares the same hull as the 535 but with a different internal layout and only two cabins. She was first launched in 2003 but we have only owned her since October last year. At that time she had 580 hours on her CAT3126B (450hp) engines. We have added 100 hours or so since then, almost all of which come from Chichester to Zumaia.
As Nigel says we cruise mostly at around 8 kts which is giving approx 1 Nm to the gallon (4.5 litres). She is fited with ABT TRAC fin stabilsers that have been an absolute revelation. She is our first stabilsed boat after eight planing hulls and a Trader 42. The latter was a great sea boat but we had to increase speed in any kind of beam sea with unwelcome effects on consumption. In the 54 cruising south around the Bay of Biscay was a good way to find out how she behaves in a beam sea. Despite some quite large swells, I am pleased to report the almost total absence of roll!
As far as quality is concerned, we are very pleased so far. We did some precautionary maintenance on the engines over the winter as we were a bit uncertain of the service schedule. Without wanting to tempt fate she has been mechanically fine so far. The interior finish is more or less unblemished and there is nothing much wrong with the exterior that wouldn't be sorted out with a compound and polish. The stainless is in good condition after the aforementioned light polish.
As far as looks are concerned I am a believer that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The 54 is no Princess or Sunseeker but she looks like she can handle herself and she does. She weighs around 27 tonnes and there are few creaks, groans or rattles when conditions get a bit fresh. The solid feel makes up a lot for looks IMHO.
We live on board for most of the year and liken her to a small apartment rather than a boat. In short we are delighted with Ocean Spirit.
Good luck with your search wherever it leads.
Richard.
As Nigel says we cruise mostly at around 8 kts which is giving approx 1 Nm to the gallon (4.5 litres). She is fited with ABT TRAC fin stabilsers that have been an absolute revelation. She is our first stabilsed boat after eight planing hulls and a Trader 42. The latter was a great sea boat but we had to increase speed in any kind of beam sea with unwelcome effects on consumption. In the 54 cruising south around the Bay of Biscay was a good way to find out how she behaves in a beam sea. Despite some quite large swells, I am pleased to report the almost total absence of roll!
As far as quality is concerned, we are very pleased so far. We did some precautionary maintenance on the engines over the winter as we were a bit uncertain of the service schedule. Without wanting to tempt fate she has been mechanically fine so far. The interior finish is more or less unblemished and there is nothing much wrong with the exterior that wouldn't be sorted out with a compound and polish. The stainless is in good condition after the aforementioned light polish.
As far as looks are concerned I am a believer that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The 54 is no Princess or Sunseeker but she looks like she can handle herself and she does. She weighs around 27 tonnes and there are few creaks, groans or rattles when conditions get a bit fresh. The solid feel makes up a lot for looks IMHO.
We live on board for most of the year and liken her to a small apartment rather than a boat. In short we are delighted with Ocean Spirit.
Good luck with your search wherever it leads.
Richard.
MapisM
Well-known member
Thanks folks for your first hand impressions, which are worth a thousand magazine reviews.
@ Hardmy: I wasn't aware (or I forgot!) that your boat also comes from Kha Shing yard. Is she branded as Horizon? Just curious.
Besides, do you know by chance if Fexas had anything to see also with the design of the 535/575 hull? Again, that's just out of curiosity - regardless of who designed them, it seems that there's a consensus about the seakeeping qualities of these hulls.
@ Idamay: congrats for your purchase. 580 hours on the engines after 12 years sounds like the previous owner(s) had barely finished the run-in period...! :encouragement:
Interesting to hear of ABT stabs, 'cause all the Trader I came across so far have Wesmar stabs instead. Were they retrofitted, by chance? Not that I think it makes any difference, mind. The only relevant difference would be with zero speed stabs, but I've yet to find a Trader fitted with them (and I'm investigating the feasibility of upgrading the Wesmar that I found in the boats I'm looking at).
Cheers, everybody!
@ Hardmy: I wasn't aware (or I forgot!) that your boat also comes from Kha Shing yard. Is she branded as Horizon? Just curious.
Besides, do you know by chance if Fexas had anything to see also with the design of the 535/575 hull? Again, that's just out of curiosity - regardless of who designed them, it seems that there's a consensus about the seakeeping qualities of these hulls.
@ Idamay: congrats for your purchase. 580 hours on the engines after 12 years sounds like the previous owner(s) had barely finished the run-in period...! :encouragement:
Interesting to hear of ABT stabs, 'cause all the Trader I came across so far have Wesmar stabs instead. Were they retrofitted, by chance? Not that I think it makes any difference, mind. The only relevant difference would be with zero speed stabs, but I've yet to find a Trader fitted with them (and I'm investigating the feasibility of upgrading the Wesmar that I found in the boats I'm looking at).
Cheers, everybody!
maybh1
Active member
Have a chat with maybh1 of the forum. They have had a trader for many years. No idea if they still have it but lots of direct knowledge.
My experience is that they are a solid old beast and can confirm they do roll like the proverbial pig. Perhaps that's why you find so many with stabs
Our beloved Trader is up for sale and we are just waiting to finalise the deal in the next few days
We had 17 years of very happy ownership once the initial gremlins were ironed out and never had a problem with getting any work done by the yard or any problems with Trader management
We often thought we should swap her for something newer but nothing we looked at ever came close to what we had
I always felt as safe as houses on the odd occasion we were caught out by the weather
May
xx
MapisM
Well-known member
Thanks for your feedback. Which model/vintage is your Trader, if I may ask?
Pinnacle
Well-known member
I think it is/was a Trader 44.
maybh1
Active member
We have a Trader 44 Sundeck and she was built late 1999
She was built to our specification and I don't think there is another one quite like her.
We chose Maple wood for the interior and had a full stateroom forward instead of a V berth cabin which gave us bunk beds in the side cabin
Essex Boatyards or Boats.co.uk have some pictures of her on their site and a video as well if you want to take a look
They also have a larger Trader for sale as well but it is POA
May
xx
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MapisM
Well-known member
Wow May, Sea Dweller looks amazingly maintained for a 1999 boat. I'm sure the new owner will be happy to have found her.
Thanks for the pointer on the other Trader that BUK has for sale, but I already checked her out after admillington posted the link, and aside from the fact that a 2007 '64 is bound to be well above our budget, she's too large for us.
A couple of other Q, if you don't mind:
1) my understanding so far was that only the Sunliner versions, with a stronger and heavier hardtop, could be equipped with a crane (which in turn makes the boat top heavy and more prone to rolling, according to iledesprit). But I see now that your Sundeck has also a crane, even if smaller than some I've seen on Sunliners. Do you think it could be retrofitted in any Sundeck boats? And what capacity does it have?
2) I've seen that your 44, similarly to most other Traders I've seen, have all decks covered in teak. Now, getting rid of wood maintenance is for us (after 15 years of timber boat!) the major single reason for considering a change, so that worries me a bit...
What's your opinion on Traders teak decks? I mean, wood quality, thickness, seams durability...
Did you have to recaulk the deck at some stage? And if yes, after how many years?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks for the pointer on the other Trader that BUK has for sale, but I already checked her out after admillington posted the link, and aside from the fact that a 2007 '64 is bound to be well above our budget, she's too large for us.
A couple of other Q, if you don't mind:
1) my understanding so far was that only the Sunliner versions, with a stronger and heavier hardtop, could be equipped with a crane (which in turn makes the boat top heavy and more prone to rolling, according to iledesprit). But I see now that your Sundeck has also a crane, even if smaller than some I've seen on Sunliners. Do you think it could be retrofitted in any Sundeck boats? And what capacity does it have?
2) I've seen that your 44, similarly to most other Traders I've seen, have all decks covered in teak. Now, getting rid of wood maintenance is for us (after 15 years of timber boat!) the major single reason for considering a change, so that worries me a bit...
What's your opinion on Traders teak decks? I mean, wood quality, thickness, seams durability...
Did you have to recaulk the deck at some stage? And if yes, after how many years?
Thanks in advance!
maybh1
Active member
All Blue questions!!! - Ask me one on scatter cushions, duvet covers or curtains:encouragement:
I shall get the Under Footman to reply when he returns home this evening
May
xx
MapisM
Well-known member
LOL, no worries, there's no rush at all!
PS: btw, aside from the crane question, which is very specific of maybh1 boat, glad to hear also from anyone else about Trader teak decks, which obviously applies to all of their boats.
PS: btw, aside from the crane question, which is very specific of maybh1 boat, glad to hear also from anyone else about Trader teak decks, which obviously applies to all of their boats.
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Hardmy
Member
Hi MapisM, mine is branded as a Kha Shing. I'm afraid, that I haven't more info which models/hulls exactly he designed.
Me neither I wouldn't take one with teak. It was the very reason why I wasn't interested in a Horizon 46' I visited in Greece 3-4 years ago. To be fair, she was a bit neglected and the Greek sun is certainly more agressive than in the UK.
On my boat, there is only teak on the cockpit which is protected by the cockpit roof. There are enough items to fix on a boat... I don't want to have issues with teak on top
maybh1
Active member
I have picked the Under Footmans brain and he tells me the following
Crane
You will see there is a support pillar that goes through the Sundeck level down to the aft deck which transfers some of the weight
The capacity of the crane is 250kgs at about a 1.8m extension. This only allows the dinghy to be lifted up the portside and be swung onto the Sundeck
The capacity of the Sundeck was sufficient to support the dinghy
We had a 3 metre rib with a 10hp engine
Having been on several Traders we did not notice much difference in the movement of the boat - it's the only boat we owned that I was never sick on!!! We understood from Trader that a RIB on Davits would have much the same effect as one on the roof
Our crane was retrofitted by Trader and our Sunliner was a standard build
Teak
We had no problems with our teak and the back deck was heavily used (a real party deck)
When cleaned with two part cleaner it always came up looking like new
We never had to recaulk it
We were just all round happy Trader owners. The volume we had in our 44 was incredible. There will be tears when the deal is finally done
May
xx
MapisM
Well-known member
I couldn't agree more, but all the Traders I'm considering have teak just about everywhere (i.e. also walkaround, f/b and swim platform, not only the aft deck).There are enough items to fix on a boat... I don't want to have issues with teak on top
Thanks May (and also the U.F.!
) for the feedbacks. Ref teak, have you got it only in the aft deck, as Hardmy?Being less exposed to the sun, I would expect that to last longer, so it would be interested to hear from someone who has seen a 15+ years old Trader with all teak decks...
Hardmy
Member
Yes correct, I have only teak on the aft deck floor. It's still the original one, I never do any maintenance and so on. And is still OKish (the purpose of the pic was to sold my old anchor):
The Boat is 26 years old...
The Boat is 26 years old...
maybh1
Active member
I couldn't agree more, but all the Traders I'm considering have teak just about everywhere (i.e. also walkaround, f/b and swim platform, not only the aft deck).
Thanks May (and also the U.F.!
Being less exposed to the sun, I would expect that to last longer, so it would be interested to hear from someone who has seen a 15+ years old Trader with all teak decks...
All of our decks were teak
May
xx
benjenbav
Well-known member
MapisM, I stand to be corrected on this one but I would have thought that maintaining and even replacing a teak deck fixed atop a grp base would, whilst not an insignificant undertaking, be in a different league from the issues involved in a wooden boat where any surface problems commonly turn out to have a structural origin.
Nick_H
Active member
Agreed BJB, and i'd go one step further. White GRP decks show up every tiny bit of dirt, whereas teak hides it very well, so i reckon over the course of a year teak decks need far less maintenance than GRP.
petem
Well-known member
I agree. When I was looking at Fairline Targas a new teak deck and bathing platform was only a couple of £ thousand and would have a life expectancy of 15 years or so. Of course a knackered one can be factored into the purchase price.
