LifeJackets - is everyone a pansy these days?

[Stork_III]

You forgot to include, "adjust LJ after every robe/disrobe stage"

I rarely wear LJ on boat, poor vis, highish wind if offshore, but always in dinghy.

I always provide any Guest with LJ, make sure it fits them and they know how to inflate it. It is then up to them if/when they wear it, until I tell them otherwise.

 

[Spyro]

So is it based on water temp? I've been sailing a couple of times in the Med and noticed that very few people wear life jackets.
Why? Is there more sense of security knowing that if you fall in you won't be freezing your rowllocks off?

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Sypro,
No, its more that in the Med you wont be helpless/dead from hypothermia inside 30+/- mins or dead from a heart attack if of a certain age within 3 mins of hitting the water in the winter Solent, or northern Nord See most of the year!

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
Sypro,
No, its more that in the Med you wont be helpless/dead from hypothermia inside 30+/- mins or dead from a heart attack if of a certain age within 3 mins of hitting the water in the winter Solent, or northern Nord See most of the year!

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems to be a message that some of the life jacket at all cost advocaters seem to be strangers with, even in summer, in UK offshore waters, it's perishing cold, and unless you are snatched out pretty quickly you could be in deep crap!

Still, as I keep saying it's down to the individual, a life jacket will stop you sinking, but it wont neccessarily stop you dying!

 

[smeaks]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

For one i do not consider you a pansy for wearing your harness.

 

[MrCramp]

Up to November last year I had two mates who were very experienced sailors (40yrs sailing each) who hated wearing lifejackets and considered them a bit "wimpish". I normally wear a lifejacket and always do in a dinghy.

They drowned on the river Deben on 10/11/07 whilst dinghying out to a boat. They did consider themselves to be good swimmers....and they were always right.

 

[Chrusty1]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

[ QUOTE ]
For one i do not consider you a pansy for wearing your harness.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well ta Smeaks! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.......I don't think anybody is a pansy for wearing a life jacket or a harness, there are times when it is appropriate for both or either. Just think that some people get a bit carried away with it is all.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sypro,
No, its more that in the Med you wont be helpless/dead from hypothermia inside 30+/- mins or dead from a heart attack if of a certain age within 3 mins of hitting the water in the winter Solent, or northern Nord See most of the year!

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems to be a message that some of the life jacket at all cost advocaters seem to be strangers with, even in summer, in UK offshore waters, it's perishing cold, and unless you are snatched out pretty quickly you could be in deep crap!

Still, as I keep saying it's down to the individual, a life jacket will stop you sinking, but it wont neccessarily stop you dying!

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely agree with you, but LJ may buy you a bit more time to be winched up and thawed out later in Haslar or whereever(After all one of the Ouzo's crew lasted about 12 hours they reckon, given he was young and fit), or provide a body to id which gives the family closure and makes it easier to wind up your Estate.

It's personal choice/ own boat rules at days end; your own experiences/ personal philiosphy will dictate your call.

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
[Absolutely agree with you, but LJ may buy you a bit more time to be winched up and thawed out later in Haslar or whereever(After all one of the Ouzo's crew lasted about 12 hours they reckon, given he was young and fit), or provide a body to id which gives the family closure and makes it easier to wind up your Estate. It's personal choice/ own boat rules at days end; your own experiences/ personal philiosphy will dictate your call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harness will save you from being there in the first place! As long as it set up right, I am always amazed at the way some people rig jack lines, and the length of their harness lines, not fun being dragged along by your boat and bouncing merrily off her sides! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Searush]

When I started sailing you were lucky to have a Kapok "buoancy aid" that would saturate & lose floatation over several hours in the water! I saved up & got SWMBO a Beaufort manual CO2 - cost a weeks pay, but encouraged her to come out with me on my loony catamaran dinghy.

In later years I got hold of several ex-BOAC lightweight Beaufort CO2's. which were mostly been kept in lockers unless weather turned dodgy. Lifejackets are de-riguer in the dinghy when going ashore - unless very sheltered short journey. This is because most sailing related drownings seem to occur when returning to a mooring from the pub/ restaurant/ clubhouse etc.

Have recently invested in a full set of auto lifejackets with harness & legstraps. Very comfortable to wear, but in a 30' centre cockpit ketch there is little threat of falling in the water unless working on the foredeck/ cabin top, when the harness is the key component. So they too generally stay hanging in the locker, unless conditions suggest they may be needed.

Not entirely sure that waiting 12 hours to die of hypothermia is a good option tho' so staying aboard remains most important task. Unfortunately that wasn't an option for the Ouzo guys.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[Absolutely agree with you, but LJ may buy you a bit more time to be winched up and thawed out later in Haslar or whereever(After all one of the Ouzo's crew lasted about 12 hours they reckon, given he was young and fit), or provide a body to id which gives the family closure and makes it easier to wind up your Estate. It's personal choice/ own boat rules at days end; your own experiences/ personal philiosphy will dictate your call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harness will save you from being there in the first place! As long as it set up right, I am always amazed at the way some people rig jack lines, and the length of their harness lines, not fun being dragged along by your boat and bouncing merrily off her sides! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally Agree, forgot to mention our LJs are harness inclusive, sorry.
Deck work is done on 3 hook or halved two hook lanyards to taut inboard jackstays. Toerail length fall max. Still Ouch mind!

Said i was a fully paid up pansyite in the jokey post above, didn't I?
We have an Elfin Satiety Rescue trawler off port qtr at all times, of course, and one in front with a red flag and a complete spare Southerly in a floating dock 2 nm astern /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Tidewaiter2]

We have an Elfin Satiety Rescue trawler off port qtr at all times, of course, and one in front with a red flag and a complete spare Southerly in a floating dock 2 nm astern /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not overreacting, just for a day trip to East Head, am I???? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[FAITIRA]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the time when you will fall in is obviously, when you don,t expect it, so the risk assesment bit is rubbish.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you wear knee pads, elbow pads, gloves, crashhelmet, lifeline, carry fire extinguisher on your person, have personal flares and a HH VHF on?
After all, you never know when you might bash your knee, elbow or crush your hand, get your head bashed on the boom or some bright spark causes a fire in your cockpit ... etc etc ...

You CANNOT cater for every eventuality, and IMHO it is very dangerous to think yourself as "perfectly safe" because you've blindly followed some safety instructions ... its a bit like trying to follow the road SatNavs ... don't just follow the route blindly - look where you're going and make your own mind up!

[/ QUOTE ]

Call me 'crass', but such a load of utter drivel I have rarely seen on here.

An absolute heap of DROSS from some (certainly not all)armchair sailors. In mid Atlantic, alone in 98, listening to the RFI news and forecast, and they told of Eric Tarbely, lost over the side on a coastal delivery, it certainly focused my mind on the value of safety gear.
You all be brave, or nuts, I,ll clip on, wear a life jacket and be a live WIMP.

Night, Night, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Chrusty1]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

[ QUOTE ]

Call me 'crass', but such a load of utter drivel I have rarely seen on here.

An absolute heap of DROSS from some (certainly not all)armchair sailors. In mid Atlantic, alone in 98, listening to the RFI news and forecast, and they told of Eric Tarbely, lost over the side on a coastal delivery, it certainly focused my mind on the value of safety gear.
You all be brave, or nuts, I,ll clip on, wear a life jacket and be a live WIMP.

Night, Night, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Crass! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif There , there now, you have a good nights sleep, you might feel better in the morning!

By the way, you didn't have to read any of it you know, no-one is forced to come here /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Personally, I have quite enjoyed it, never a bad thing to listen to folk, even when their views differ from your own.

Night-Night.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

Call me 'crass', but such a load of utter drivel I have rarely seen on here.

An absolute heap of DROSS from some (certainly not all)armchair sailors. In mid Atlantic, alone in 98, listening to the RFI news and forecast, and they told of Eric Tarbely, lost over the side on a coastal delivery, it certainly focused my mind on the value of safety gear.
You all be brave, or nuts, I,ll clip on, wear a life jacket and be a live WIMP.

Night, Night, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not a WIMP you are now a registered, fully paid up member of the Pansy Party like me /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif ( I'll resign from the Party if that stresses you of course).
Counselling is on Friday & Sat eves during opening hours.

Many Pansy Party Members have been discribed as "harsh, arrogant, cruel, brutal, autocratic, domineering and opinionated" but remember Party Rules specifically forbid the use of Flattery to seize power and sweep all dissent aside. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TTFN

 

[shaqra]

I agree with drannie.
When that moment of stark reality hits you, thats when its to late to change the situation you find yourself in. There is no such thing as "drowning like a gentleman"
It will be a horrible reality.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

You actually suffocate; the reflex flap at the back of your throat closes and you choke to death. Thats why sprayhood vital on LJs;.

The water gets in afterwards when all schpincters relax in death, or if you swallow some in the early stages: that is how survivor drowning occurrs after rescue; sea water or fuel oil in the lungs inflames them and you drown in your own bodies serum. Not good /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

 

[DRANNIE]

thanks. For all the 10 pages of posts and the comments about complacency its the occassional cold thought of what it would be like in the freezing water, salt burning the back of your throat watching the boat sail off that keeps me firmly onboard.

At the age of 14 I snagged my boyancy aid on a shopping trolly at the bottom of the severn after exiting a canoe. I can safely say that it was the longest 70 seconds of my life while I tried to unzip the thing and get free. Drowning is one way I don't ever want to go.

night night......

 

[alt]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

[ QUOTE ]

Who would hold you responsible for someones life if they came on your boat and refused a lifejacket?


[/ QUOTE ]

The judge.

I've no problem with coming onboard and refusing a lifejacket - They'll just not be coming for a spin on my craft. It's just the way I am - I can't give you any scientific reason for it unfortunately

The law is quite clear in Ireland. All persons under 16 must wear lifejackets, lifejackets must be available (ie. onboard) for anyone over 16, however it's not law that they wear them (This is on a boat 7m+). So if they REFUSED a lifejacket, then I guess it's their own fault theyre drowned. However if it was found that lifejackets were not available, I presume owner/captain (yar!) would be responsible


I'm not great at risk assessment, i'll leave that to the risk assessors. But the last thing I want to have to think about is the possibility of one of my family (i've young nephews/nieces you could escape from chains!) drowning because a simple precaution was not taking. I am not saying that an LJ *will* save someones life, but in the offchance that they do fall in the water, it'll help the little buggers float for a while

Understand that this is coming from the owner of a small 25ft open sports cruiser. I often walk up along the walkarounds to move fenders/ropes etc. while underway (the girliefriend driving - i'm not Evil Kinevil) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hindrance than a help.

Tagged on post, not replying to anyone in particular..

On a favourite television series around these parts, Seaside Rescue; a small fishing boat sank, the crew all very experienced and friends of the crews who went out to search for them. The weather was calm and sunny, it was mid summer and looked warm, the water was probably close to 20°C. Two were picked up, both wearing jackets, apparently the skipper died as he went back into the wheelhouse to find his jacket.

I am sure when he was clambering with his last breath, probably wetting himself.. maybe worse he was proud that up to that point he had maintained his dignity and not worn a jacket. I am sure if you had an underwater microphone, the last sounds with the bubbles of air leaving his lungs were thank god I am not a pans....

Another example, the skipper of the yacht Chris Evans was on, as he floated away to die and those left just screamed, it was mirror calm. He was unconscious it seems, fine, he may not have regrets, but I am sure his family stood in the church and said, thank christ he wasn't a pansy.

Fireball, I am sorry, but to suggest on a forum where new people come to learn your troll is in pretty poor taste. No problem with asking should we; but suggesting those who choose to, are pansies is shocking.

If someone new reading this doesn't wear a jacket now in fear that the experienced old only duffers drown morons laugh at them, how will you sleep at night? Over the top, maybe, but I am disappointed that someone of your experience is suggesting the wearing of a lifejacket in any weather makes someone a pansy.

Bad taste troll!

if not a troll - moronic posts from people who should know better!