LifeJackets - is everyone a pansy these days?

[fireball]

Re: LifeJackets - sometimes more of a hinderance than a help.

[ QUOTE ]
I wear my lifejacket for a few simple reasons:

If I fall in the water it will help me float effortlessly
It's the law (here in Ireland)

Simple as

[/ QUOTE ]
Second reason fair enough - if it is law then I suppose you'd have to ... but the first reason is a little wishywashy ...

Do you think you are likely to fall in?
If so, why do you think you are likely to fall in?
Can you not do something about the probability of falling in?

Far better to treat the cause rather than the symptoms!!

 

[DRANNIE]

RNLI says it all for me really.

The point is - no-one intends to fall in and (I asume) we all take precautions to ensure we don't fall in. By not wearing one what are your acheiving? i doubt anyone in here goes "god you must be great sailor, haven't fallen in and drowned since your last post, damn these non jacket people are so right" (sorry not meant to be a personal attack) but you get the idea.

Any body on here deliberately decided not to learnt to swim? swimmins for bloody girls, go down like a rock I say, over nice and quick.

 

[jordanbasset]

I do wear one if I go in the dinghy to get to shore for a night at a taverna, for example. However the number of people I see who have had a drink (nothing wrong with that) then come back in the dark to their boat, when the wind may have got up, without a life jacket is a little worrying.
I do not advocate wearing life jackets as a matter of course but sometimes you do have to think ahead

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
RNLI says it all for me really.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing wrong with that on the face of it, but what good is a life jacket to you, when you are a hundred miles off shore, single handed with self steering engaged?

Better to be lashed securely to the boat, no? or alternatively as Blondie Hasler once remarked.........

"Drown like a gentleman"! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
Whether they’re training or out on a shout, RNLI crew members always wear lifejackets. It's a rule informed by years of experience. They know that, whatever the weather, the sea is extremely unpredictable and can turn at a moment's notice.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd expect rescue services to wear lifejackets - the very reason they (the RNLI) are there is because someone is in trouble ... they are not on the lifeboat to enjoy themselves or go for a pleasurable sail ...

[ QUOTE ]
Boating can be extremely unpredictable. It is vital to wear a lifejacket

[/ QUOTE ] the keyword here is "CAN" ... how many of you have had unpredictable things happen to you or your boat whilst not wearing a lifejacket? If the sea is flat and it's a gentle F2-3 on a summers afternoon then there it is UNLIKELY that anything unexpected will go wrong that will end up with you in the water ... therefore it is NOT VITAL to wear a lifejacket .... there are always exceptions, but that is part of the enjoyment of sailing - the risk .. the adventure .. unless you are a maniac and run round the boat with you eyes closed flailing your arms about ...

What I see is a general wearing down of the risk assessment that everyone naturally undertakes ... choices are slowly being erroded so you end up not having the choice so you don't think about the risk ... so you're more likely to have an accident.

There's a suggestion to stop a lot of shunts in cars - remove the seat belts and put an 8" metal spike out from the middle of the stearing wheel - that'll make drivers FAR more careful ... because they know there is significant risk of serious injury if they get it wrong ...

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with that on the face of it, but what good is a life jacket to you, when you are a hundred miles off shore, single handed with self steering engaged?

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly!! That is thinking about the consequences of your actions (or non-actions) ... don't rely on everyone else to get you out of the [--word removed--] you've got yourself into!!

 

[DRANNIE]

bizzarre arguments. In that case we should wear diving weights to make sure we don't have a chance if we go over the side. Will be ultra safe then.

No its simply about giving yourself options. Yes if I fall overboard as a single hander I'm probably stuffed and would take every precaution to ensure I stayed on board. However, off shore with a lifejacket and a gps personal epirb I have a better chance than in heavy oilies alone.

 

[Lakesailor]

I'm with you on this. I don't have a life jacket. I do have a couple of bouyancy aids and have worn one sometimes (when I had my Heron and when testing my little trimaran). On the lake it's not an issue.
Of course someone will now tell me how shortsighted I am and that is certainly an issue.
For them, maybe. Not for me.

If I go on board someone else's boat and they ask me to put on a lifejacket, I do. That's their decision and I'm on their boat.

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with that on the face of it, but what good is a life jacket to you, when you are a hundred miles off shore, single handed with self steering engaged?

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly!! That is thinking about the consequences of your actions (or non-actions) ... don't rely on everyone else to get you out of the [--word removed--] you've got yourself into!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well it seems to me that these days everybody is obsessed with removing the risk factor from everything we do......

To be honest, if sailing wasn't risky, I like as not wouldn't do it.

It's by taking risks, that we push the envelope, and develop as human beings.

Remember what was said about travelling by rail, when it was invented? Something about if one travels at more than 40 miles an hour you will die, because you wont be able to breath!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There are times, when wearing a life jacket is appropriate, and times when it is not. If some daft bastid thinks that they are going to legislate away my freedom to make the choice for myself..............they had best think again!

 

[FWB]

Its a warm day, lifejacket on over polo shirt. Getting a little cooler in the wind, so lifejacket off, sweater on, lifejacket back on. Hmm could do with a jacket now so, lifejacket off, jacket on, lifejacket back on. Oh no its raining! Lifejacket off, oilies on, lifejacket back on.
Hmm stopped raining and getting a bit hot so, lifejacket off, oilies off, jacket off etc etc etc.....
Buoyancy vest instead /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[smeaks]

Fireball... your out on the sunny afternoon with your F2-F3 flying your full array of sails and a thunder storm funnels down a river valley and spills out infront of you. Your first instinct would be to collect in your sails to reduce canvas exposed to the possible squall that is about to hit - sometimes you have mins only. If your jkt is on you are already half prepared without having to go hunting for it down below and then fit it just to find your skinny mate had it on last and you have to adjust it.... wheres that crotch strao gone?.. now just worry about reducing sail.. in my view it is a matter a blanket risk removal rather than a continuous risk assessment.

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
bizzarre arguments. In that case we should wear diving weights to make sure we don't have a chance if we go over the side. Will be ultra safe then.

No its simply about giving yourself options. Yes if I fall overboard as a single hander I'm probably stuffed and would take every precaution to ensure I stayed on board. However, off shore with a lifejacket and a gps personal epirb I have a better chance than in heavy oilies alone.

[/ QUOTE ]


Drannie me dear, if you was a hundred miles off shore, single handed, you would not go over the side, leastways, not if you had half a brain you wouldn't! So really it's all what ifs and twaddle! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DRANNIE]

I actually don't have any argument with personal choice and equally if you ever do drown then we can post "its what he'd have wanted".

My issue is with being called a pansy for wearing one when its patently just as common sense as learning to swim.

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
Fireball... your out on the sunny afternoon with your F2-F3 flying your full array of sails and a thunder storm funnels down a river valley and spills out infront of you. Your first instinct would be to collect in your sails to reduce canvas exposed to the possible squall that is about to hit - sometimes you have mins only. If your jkt is on you are already half prepared without having to go hunting for it down below and then fit it just to find your skinny mate had it on last and you have to adjust it.... wheres that crotch strao gone?.. now just worry about reducing sail.. in my view it is a matter a blanket risk removal rather than a continuous risk assessment.

[/ QUOTE ]

What you say has merit, but not for everyone all of the time. People have to be allowed to take risks and learn from them otherwise, none of us will learn anything, if you cut your finger on a sharp knife, chances are you will learn to be more careful next time you are using the knife.

I wish people would just stop telling others what is best for them, and just get on with doing what they feel is best for themselves.

 

[DRANNIE]

you might be right but in that last couple of minutes when you floundering in the water watching the boat get away from you will there not be just a little doubt in your mind before.....

 

[pvb]

[ QUOTE ]
What I see is a general wearing down of the risk assessment that everyone naturally undertakes ... choices are slowly being erroded so you end up not having the choice so you don't think about the risk ... so you're more likely to have an accident.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd agree with that. I find it bewildering and worrying on balmy summer days to see boatloads of people leaving the marina all wearing lifejackets - and mobos seem to be worse than raggies in this regard. It's unlikely that they can realistically assess risk, and just blindly wearing lifejackets must be seen as some sort of insurance. I'm usually out shorthanded or singlehanded, and rate a harness as being much more useful than a lifejacket in almost all conditions.

 

[Evadne]

For me it's a matter of perceptions.

I go sailing because it's enjoyable, and I get great feeling of freedom when I cast off: no work, no telly, hassles, no phone (unless you're daft enough to switch it on).

Other people seem to perceive a boat as a series of risks and problems, the lifejacket and lifeline in case you fall overboard, the bump cap in case the boom hits you on the heed, safety knives with no points in case you cut yourself, or puncture your dinghy, etc., etc..

Safety is like a length of string, and you can start at wearing a lifejacket in life threatening situations and end up with an asbestos apron and gloves every time you put the kettle on if you're not careful. Where you draw the line is up to you, but for me, once I cast off I'm my own master and bugger anyone trying to tell me what to do or how to do it.

 

[Boatman]

Anybody could drown in a few inches of water, but do they ware an LJ in the bath?

There is a time and a place for everything but should be upto the person at risk.

 

[Chrusty1]

[ QUOTE ]
you might be right but in that last couple of minutes when you floundering in the water watching the boat get away from you will there not be just a little doubt in your mind before.....

[/ QUOTE ]

No Drannie there wont, if I am offshore single handed, and anywhere but below or in the cockpit, I wear a harness, made off to something that will not give way. also, my harness lines are of a length that wont allow me to go over the side (risk assesment see)......

If I have been a first class plonker, and end up in the oggin when I should know better, then I will have the decency "to drown like a gentleman", and the missus can collect the insurance!

Personally I don't think you, or anyone else is a "Pansy" because you choose to wear a life jacket, it's your choice.

Like I said before, folks should just get on with what suits them, and leave others to do the same, what is so difficult about that? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Chrusty1]

I'll second that! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif