IN in EU or OUT from EU

[fergie_mac66]

Nor the extras they keep asking for.

Anybody remember this.

http://www.cityam.com/1414112975/camerons-new-euro-nightmare

Or this

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/590887/Europe-fines-UK-accounting

The last one is a cheek considering the EU increase the accountancy error rate by 3% up to 5% a cheat and a phenomenal amount of the money, just to get the auditors to let the accounts go.

 

[Jamesuk]

Is that it, the EU allows us to send cheap photos on our phones ?
Brian

free movement of yachts ;-)

 

[fergie_mac66]

Parliamentary debate effectively about remain and Leave if you are voting it is a long but essential riveting watch.




http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/93a979e7-4c8a-4d3f-89b1-529df4b4cad4

 

[CaptainCava]

According to the newspapers, banks and 'big business' want us to stay in.
I'm pretty sure that far more than 50% of the population don't trust banks and 'big business'.
So how come the polls (including the very small YBW one) show that approximately 50% of the population seem to agree with these organisations that they don't trust?

 

[RAI]

So how come the polls (including the very small YBW one) show that approximately 50% of the population seem to agree with these organisations that they don't trust?

But we do trust them - to do whatever is in their own best interest.

 

[chanelyacht]

So how come the polls (including the very small YBW one) show that approximately 50% of the population seem to agree with these organisations that they don't trust?

Remember the forecasts for the last election that the polls gave?

 

[Bobc]

According to the newspapers, banks and 'big business' want us to stay in.
I'm pretty sure that far more than 50% of the population don't trust banks and 'big business'.
So how come the polls (including the very small YBW one) show that approximately 50% of the population seem to agree with these organisations that they don't trust?

Don't forget that the polling companies are owned by people with vested interests. I often wonder whether they are completely unbiased and simply report their findins or whether they are in some way "social engineering" (you can ask a question in different ways, which will produce different answers). The polls are able to steer people's thinking in the direction they want, as most people will vote with the herd.

 

[Kelpie]

Don't forget that the polling companies are owned by people with vested interests. I often wonder whether they are completely unbiased and simply report their findins or whether they are in some way "social engineering" (you can ask a question in different ways, which will produce different answers). The polls are able to steer people's thinking in the direction they want, as most people will vote with the herd.

A few years back I had a job designing 'research instruments'- this is the term given to the questions used to obtain information. A great deal of thought goes into it and it is indeed possible to manipulate people's responses. Always consider who is asking the question...

 

[Babylon]

Don't forget that, if/when the world'd most "manipulated populace" elect Donald, there's a significant chance that we can say goodbye for good to the so-called 'Special Relationship' - which has in reality always been that of the perpetrator and the abused.

It was in Algiers that the beginning of Powell's distrust of the United States began. After socially mixing with American military officials that he met and exploring their cultural views of the world, he became convinced that one of America's covert war aims was to destroy the British Empire. Writing home on 16 February 1943, Powell stated: "I see growing on the horizon the greater peril than Germany or Japan ever were... our terrible enemy, America...."[6]:75 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powell

Powell's later fall from grace doesn't detract from the perspicacity of this observation - lucky for us that the Imperial Japanese decided to have a go, eh?

In recent decades, the uncomfortable irony of America's determination to intervene all over the Muslim world (about as successful as their earlier adventure in Vietnam), and draw Britain and many other European countries into their ill-founded crusades, has left us considerably more vulnerable.

There's no ideal solution or outcome for Britain or Europe, but don't be fooled that - politically, militarily or economically - we can adopt a Quixotic stance.

 

[Bobc]

If Trump becomes president, the relationship will be better if we are out.

He has a distrust of the EU and sees it as a threat, and if we are not part of it any more, I suspect that he'll view the UK as a "friendly landmass" on this side of the Atlantic.

 

[dom]

No question that the EU has overreached - but half of Europe (including the UK) has realised this and is set to reform it, if nothing else to stem the rise of right wing populism.

The UK has in many ways led the charge here, so to step off into a poorer and less secure future simply to answer a sovereignty bugbear seems to me like an act of collective suicide.

The flip-side is that the hysterical anti-British cries by French Prime-Minister Manuel Valls that a post-Brexit UK will be frozen out are equally ridiculous. They will fall on deaf German ears and both he and Hollande can expect to be booted out of office next year.

My suspicion is that the British electorate will dodge this bullet when push comes to shove, just as last May they dodged the howitzer sized bullet that came in the form of Ed Milliband!

 

[halcyon]

If Trump becomes president, the relationship will be better if we are out.

He has a distrust of the EU and sees it as a threat, and if we are not part of it any more, I suspect that he'll view the UK as a "friendly landmass" on this side of the Atlantic.

But the US set up the EEC free trade area after WW2 to form a buffer to communism, all part of the Marshall plan, so were are all just pawns in the bigger picture of the World politics.

Brian

 

[fergie_mac66]

Just out of interest this may be a reminder of Tony Benn's view on Europe a short while before he died in 2014. I think he would be ashamed of labour now.

 

[fergie_mac66]

Here's a Facebook poll been running a while currently 43000 votes 82 % leave. Won't allow you to vote more than once




http://www.pollstation.uk/eu-referendum/poll/

 

[Koeketiene]

But the US set up the EEC free trade area after WW2 to form a buffer to communism, all part of the Marshall plan, so were are all just pawns in the bigger picture of the World politics.

Brian

WTF did you get that from?

How European Union evolved...

1923 - BLEU: Belgian-Luxembourg Economic Union
1944 - BENELUX: Belgium -Netherlands-Luxembourg economic/cultural cooperation
1952 - European Community of Coal and Steel. BENELUX + Germany + France + Italy
1958 - Creation of the EEC and Euratom (same countries as above)
1967 - Treaty of Rome (same countries as above) - start of 'ever closer union' - fusion of ECCS, EEC and EURATOM
1993 - Maastrict Treaty and establisment of the EC
2009 - Lisbon Treaty and establisment of the EU
etc...

The role of the US in all this? Sweet FA.

 

[rotrax]

+1! That-in a less accurate form than yours- was my take on it.

The EU is not what we joined, successive governments of both flavours have not fully embraced the union so our country is half in and half out. This is no good at all.

To get the benifits you must embrace it, work the systems and make sure you get the best value for the cost of membership, which in the UK's case is great.

We dont, we wont in future so what is the point-I'm for out.

Let US be the agents of our destiny, not Brussels..................

 

[Koeketiene]

Let US be the agents of our destiny, not Brussels..................

The mind boggles.
Rather than being a major player in Europe, you prefer to see Britain as the 51st state of the US with about as much international clout as Delaware or Maine.

Good luck - you're going to need it.

 

[rotrax]

The mind boggles.
Rather than being a major player in Europe, you prefer to see Britain as the 51st state of the US with about as much international clout as Delaware or Maine.

Good luck - you're going to need it.

A major player in Europe-just reflect on the way CMD was treated when he "negotiated" with the other member states recently. They treated him with distain.

Your 'avin a larf mate...............................

 

[fergie_mac66]

Norway in 94 voted out... This short video is an interview between the head of no to Europe and the former state Secretary. De ja vou.

 

[Seven Spades]

Enoch sums it up, guess we will have to wait another 40 years.