IN in EU or OUT from EU

[steve yates]

Without getting onto a debate on the reliability of polls I think you have to question that one for two reasons. Firstly it was commissioned a newspaper which is a strong "remain" supporter and secondly it is impossible to have a result that does not have a "don't know" element. I would want to look at the question and the sampling frame before giving that any credibility.

Interestingly the other poll reported in the Telegraph (which is of course strongly Brexit) shows exactly the opposite (but with a don't know of around 20%) That poll has been showing a pro leave consistently since the referendum.

So you are doing what you are accusing others of? Claiming false news if it does not agree with you?

I was simply making the point that you said, "all polls are showing increasing support for leaving." Of course they do if you only pick and choose the ones you agree with

 

[steve yates]

Humm well, lets put this into perspective, shall we? then look at any overviews ?

UK citizens = 3 (on your own numbers)

EU immigrants (inc dual Nationality) = 10 in Rochdale area + ? spread round the country (numbers withheld on account of ??)

Do you detect any pattern emerging ?

Poss not, but try again ?

Huh????

 

[Tranona]

So you are doing what you are accusing others of? Claiming false news if it does not agree with you?

I was simply making the point that you said, "all polls are showing increasing support for leaving." Of course they do if you only pick and choose the ones you agree with

Yes, I realise that - but in this case I am questioning the methodology as I find it difficult to believe that a proper representative sample of 1500 people can all be for or against with none of them uncertain. This rather suggests that the sample was carefully chosen to reflect the opinion of the newspaper commissioning it - particularly as it says the opposite of others and the referendum result.

 

[Fascadale]

EU immigrants (inc dual Nationality) = 10 in Rochdale area + ? spread round the country (numbers withheld on account of ??)

I suspect the Rochdale reference is to to those convicted who may, or may not have British Commonwealth connections. I was not aware that any of them had EU connections.

I should be very grateful were you to provide evidence connecting the Rochdale offenders to the EU

 

[GrahamM376]

I suspect the Rochdale reference is to to those convicted who may, or may not have British Commonwealth connections. I was not aware that any of them had EU connections.

I should be very grateful were you to provide evidence connecting the Rochdale offenders to the EU

As you say, the Rochdale problem involved immigrants from former commonwealth countries. However, here in Portugal and in the UK, there is a growing crime problem involving some of the immigrants from eastern European countries. I'm not against immigration, we need many of them but would like our gov. to be able to say who we let in and who we can deport, regardless of whether their country of origin has the death penalty.

As far as sailing is concerned, the only problems I've seen so far are caused by the poor exchange rate but, new imported boats are in a minority compared to the number of second hand boats which change hands.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

That's very regrettable and, I hope, untypical. Perhaps some people are beginning to wonder just who the hell we think we are, continually heaping abuse on Europeans and an organisation most of them value.

When they hear people like Farage it's hardly surprising that some will not think much of a nation that elects someone like him to public office.

Farage is a hypocrite and an opportunist; his salary and the pension are paid by the EU

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I see this thread was started on 16 Apr 16, before the setting up of a Brexit sub-forum.

After 7 months of no posts this thread has now been reactivated but drifted away from the original debate to yet another IN/OUT argument. Nothing to do with boating.

Now we have a Brexit forum possibly this thread should be moved there?

See post number 850, yesterday

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

You are factually incorrect tranona, not sure where "all polls are showing increasing support for leaving." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...y-eu-poll-finds-biggest-gap-since-referendum/

Immigration was the single biggest issue cited for voting leave. Being anti immigration is not racist, and is a valid argument from certain viewpoints, however it is cute in the extreme to claim that racism has nothing to do with the vote. There are a lot of racists in the uk, (in every country in fact,) and all of them will have voted leave, and cited immigration as their reasons, so it has certainly played a part.

Everything was reasonably well within EU until ex-communist eastern block countries were allowed to join EU. However, now Poland has been given the opportunity to manufacture low cost Yachts and we have the opportunity to buy them at a good price; it must be a plus for our sailing hobby.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I tend to disagree with that bit of reasoning.
Firstly one has to filter out fake news but it is clear that the effect of immigration, along with the religious consequences has caused considerable damage to society throughout Europe. Anti semetism against jews is on the rise again & they are moving away from Europe. There are more "no go" areas in major cities across the EU than we realise. There are many in this country. All of which are denied by politicians & denied by the liberal elite. that is not racist, it is fact.

So whilst 95% of us live in peace, life for the other 5% is far from peaceful. There are riots in EU cities every week & if one is involved in these then one might as well be in a war zone. imagine a shop keeper who has his business destroyed in an afternoon by looters. Imagine being told you cannot walk down the street that you have lived in any more because you do not comply with a particular culture. Cannot imagine that- for some it is a reality.
Worst of all is the fear women have of personal attack. Can you imagine how a woman must feel even if she has only been manhandled. the fear must be enormous & the mental stress everlasting. Have you seen the reports of female joggers in groups in Sweden being escorted by police. That is not fake news, the video shows the police & the joggers & the jogger /police interviews.

This country has absorbed, typically, Chinese, Indian & Jewish cultures over a long period of time & generally this has been to our benefit. None of these cultures have been as a result of EU membership. The cultures that we have had to accept as a result of being in the EU have had a far greater detrimental effect on our society than any of those that preceded them in the 100 years before. Further more it has been at a rate too fast to accept & of a type that will not conform to our way of life. That has lead to social unrest. No war- but social unease can be just as bad for many

Steve, you are right when you say that we have had peace in our time but the social unrest is spreading & I for one am happy that I do not live in parts of Sweden, France, Belgium, Greece or come to that - London.

Terrorism may not be stopped by leaving the EU but my daughter works in Canary Wharf & every day i worry. If leaving it can reduce the threat by controlling immigration then the sooner out the better. I worked in London in the days when the IRA were a threat & i never felt safe sitting in the Wardorf hotel looking at weighted curtains in front of the windows to act as glass fragment shields . Do they still have them? No wars but still not utopia is it

Immigration and migration over time is not bad; however, immigration too fast can (and has) create huge problems.

 

[Moderator]

After a number of complaints, we have decided to close this thread. Should you with to continue Brexit discussions unless directly related to Yachting or Boating, please do so in the Brexit sub-forum in The Lounge.

Thank you.