ICC needed or not?

[Zing]

I will be sailing the Med this year for the first=st time in decades. I’ve been sailing and owning boats for 40+years and have never needed or got a ticket, but I suspect our continental pen pushers want to see paperwork? Do I need the ICC cert?

I’m not going to sit around for a week to learn what I surely know already, so can I get the paperwork quicker, as in like a half a nanosecond ideally? Or do I need to not worry and that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

 

[jlavery]

This RYA page should help with regards to where it's needed and accepted. My take on it is that it's a very good idea, to avoid hassle. And this one gives info on applying. Half way down this page are details on how to get an assessment.

Most sailing schools run assessments, and a lot of sailing clubs do too.

I do ICC assessments at our club. For people/friends I know to be competent, it's almost a box ticking exercise, but as an assessor, I do have to make sure that I've seen the competence demonstrated. (However, I didn't ask one friend who regularly parks 80' Oysters to show me his parking skills!)

Should be able to get it done in about 3 hours, depending on what the assessor wants to see, and the logistics. So depending on the assessor, you shouldn't find it too onerous!

Hope this helps.

 

[fredrussell]

I’m not going to sit around for a week to learn what I surely know already, so can I get the paperwork quicker, as in like a half a nanosecond ideally? Or do I need to not worry and that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

I wouldn’t bother with ICC. Your winning charm will carry you through.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

As @jlavery says, getting the ICC does require an assessment (afloat) by an accredited examiner. It isn't arduous, but you must demonstrate the required skills. I combined it with a day's own-boat tuition, and we had a good day out. The required elements are nearly two pages of fairly small print; my examiner reckoned it was roughly equivalent to Day Skipper in that if you'd done ICC it wasn't worth doing Day Skipper. In fact, e had an interesting discussion of Coastal navigation techniques!

 

[billskip]

that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

Yes definitely I think you should do that.

 

[jlavery]

Yes definitely I think you should do that.

You will of course need to shout it loudly in English, with no attempt to speak their language.

 

[Mister E]

Don't forget to remind them your English

 

[Sandy]

Will it be your boat or a charter?

 

[oldgit]

" Fog in La Manche "

 

[doris]

I will be sailing the Med this year for the first=st time in decades. I’ve been sailing and owning boats for 40+years and have never needed or got a ticket, but I suspect our continental pen pushers want to see paperwork? Do I need the ICC cert?

I’m not going to sit around for a week to learn what I surely know already, so can I get the paperwork quicker, as in like a half a nanosecond ideally? Or do I need to not worry and that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

Last time I was in the med, 4 years ago, no ICC = no insurance, no charter. If you're on your own boat I'm sure you will be fine unless something goes wrong and even if you are blameless, without any papers, you will be at the mercy of your beloved bureaucrats .
We'll bake you a cake with a nice file in it maybe.

 

[Cspirit]

I will be sailing the Med this year for the first=st time in decades. I’ve been sailing and owning boats for 40+years and have never needed or got a ticket, but I suspect our continental pen pushers want to see paperwork? Do I need the ICC cert?

I’m not going to sit around for a week to learn what I surely know already, so can I get the paperwork quicker, as in like a half a nanosecond ideally? Or do I need to not worry and that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

For what it’s worth, during 18 years in the Med I was only asked for a “Captain’s Licence” twice. The ICC satisfied the authorities.

 

[Graham376]

Last time I was in the med, 4 years ago, no ICC = no insurance, no charter. If you're on your own boat I'm sure you will be fine unless something goes wrong and even if you are blameless, without any papers, you will be at the mercy of your beloved bureaucrats .
We'll bake you a cake with a nice file in it maybe.

As said above, if you're involved in an accident, that's when some official will ask for proof of competence. OTOH, in 20 years of sailing in France, Portugal, Spain, Morocco, I've only had to produce SSR, insurance and passport.

 

[LittleSister]

As @jlavery says, getting the ICC does require an assessment (afloat) by an accredited examiner. . .

An assessment is not required if you already have the relevant RYA certificates.

I assume you and jlavery know that and were answering Zing, who presumably has no truck with such things, but others may be reading the thread.

This download from the RYA website indicates which certificates are required and which class of ICC coverage they give.
https://assetbank-eu-west-1.s3.eu-w...f18a59e1e163377c06a4c50a9d9c88e84408397799d2e

 

[srm]

Go to Canada instead. Not only do they speak much the same language but would accept your argument for not needing a cert of competence (or would a few years ago).

Some years ago Canada introduced a minimum standard of competence for all boat handlers. At the Toronto boat show they were pushing the written exam - no practical needed. I got into conversation with one of their maritime officers and asked if the ICC was acceptable. They did not know what it was. I followed up asking if I needed the Canadian certificate as I would be on my own British registered boat that did not require a cert of competence. I was told that they would follow flag state requirements even if it meant no certificate.

 

[dunedin]

I will be sailing the Med this year for the first=st time in decades. I’ve been sailing and owning boats for 40+years and have never needed or got a ticket, but I suspect our continental pen pushers want to see paperwork? Do I need the ICC cert?

I’m not going to sit around for a week to learn what I surely know already, so can I get the paperwork quicker, as in like a half a nanosecond ideally? Or do I need to not worry and that I should just tell the bureaucrats that under the Red Duster (which I fly) that we don’t need your stupid paperwork so F off back to your bureaucratic and miserable hell hole?

Wow, what country is going to get the benefit of that attitude ? Might be better staying at home.

Just as the Englishman in his “castle”/home is NOT above the UK law, so the Englishman in his ship/ yacht is NOT above local law, with a few specific exceptions. The much touted rights of Innocent Passage are generally understood to NOT apply to a vessel in inshore waters - ie any harbour and most safe anchorages. Instead local laws apply.
Fortunately MOST European countries tend to apply rules on recreational craft MOSTLY to locally flagged and/or owned vessels - but this depends on the specific law / rules wording and does not apply to all rules. In most cases a proof of competence (eg ICC) may not be needed for a private vessel - more often required by charter companies.
Sometimes rules on safety gear and expiry dates are mandated on all vessels.

But I note from your post #25 on another thread about carrying knives in the UK, you are equally blasé about UK law makers and happy to knowingly breach UK law - so why worry about breaking other countries laws?
Mind you, trying to explain in (say) Greek language to a Greek magistrate as to why you know the Greek maritime rules better than a Greek harbour official could end badly.

PS. Doing an own vessel ICC assessment is hardly a big hardship.

 

[Clancy Moped]

A positive attitude and a sense of humour plus ICC will get you a long way, so maybe you shouldn't bother.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

If it’s your own boat under British regulation you don’t need an ICC. Insurance passport and registration. Is what you need. Make sure your insurance is valid without a ticket and then if anything happens you’re fine.
Chartering is a different matter. But if it’s your own boat you’re fine.

 

[billskip]

A ICC is valid by those countries that have accepted UNCE resolution 40 , for operators of their own craft ........ but but but Buck Turgidson told me its not required osifer.....so fekoff......what do you mean you are impounding my boat......

 

[MADRIGAL]

Go to Canada instead. Not only do they speak much the same language but would accept your argument for not needing a cert of competence (or would a few years ago).

Some years ago Canada introduced a minimum standard of competence for all boat handlers. At the Toronto boat show they were pushing the written exam - no practical needed. I got into conversation with one of their maritime officers and asked if the ICC was acceptable. They did not know what it was. I followed up asking if I needed the Canadian certificate as I would be on my own British registered boat that did not require a cert of competence. I was told that they would follow flag state requirements even if it meant no certificate.

Quite true...but the winter weather might be better in the Med. Less ice.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

A ICC is valid by those countries that have accepted UNCE resolution 40 , for operators of their own craft ........ but but but Buck Turgidson told me its not required osifer.....so fekoff......what do you mean you are impounding my boat......

Oh if it were that simple. Would you like to list the countries which have fully accepted resolution 40 . Those which have partially accepted it and those which have not?