st599
Well-Known Member
The only 2 strokes you can buy in the EU and UK are ones with ECUs to meet emissions regulations. They're not available in small sizes.
How would spend £200K and £1400 per month to buy a bluewater yacht to liveaboard and sail / maybe circumnavigate for years to come?
- Thread starter Rob44
- Start date
Rob44
Active Member
Haha, no, I’m just thinking the ability to do such work could prove very useful. I’ve already assumed much of what you’re saying though, and regarding hold-alls and medicals, I’m already quite familiar with those aspects
Tranona
Well-Known Member
When I was young we used to get lots of people in a Mini! Not sure why you have difficulty in accepting that people are different as are the places they sail. We (5 of us) tried both and everybody preferred the Bavaria. After 20 years of ownership of 2 of them would not change my views. Having said that suspect if would had followed our original plan and bought the Moody in the UK and used it there before going to the Med I would like you be defending it. It was actually taking 3 charter holidays in different boats that changed us. Plus I was disappointed with the condition of the half dozen or so Moodys that we looked at in view of the prices asked.After 23 years with the boat, I don't recognise your description. Having had two aft and two centre cockpit boats, still prefer the latter and see plenty of them around Algarve and western Med. Like you, we could have bought new at the time but preferred older. Cramped, yes possibly if we had more than the 12 on board in the photo.
Just as an aside probably the worst bit about the Moody was stern to mooring. not only was it poor in reverse compared with the Bavaria, but higher windage meant more affected by the frequent strong crosswinds in the Ionian and clambering over the aft cabin/deck and down to the relatively small platform to both deal with stern lines or go ashore was not popular with my crew, even the young agile ones. On the other hand the Bavaria is straight walk through from the cockpit and the helm has only to turn around to hand lines or even step ashore. That made it relatively easy for just my wife and I to moor - she on anchor duty up front and me steering and stepping ashore at the rear. Or even single handed controlling the anchor with the remote from the helm. Try that in a centre cockpit boat!
Really no surprise that just about nobody makes centre cockpit boats under 12m any more. They were products of their times and predominately N European orientated. Nice and cosy down below in in a Scandinavian or West coast of Scotland anchorage but not at their best in most hot climates.
Rob44
Active Member
Thank you so much Baggywrinkle, I hugely appreciate your extensive reply - so much to now watch and consider
siwhi
Well-Known Member
We sailed as a family of 4 from Glasgow to Sydney between 2016 and 2020 and sold just as the Covid lockdown hit Australia on a Moody 44 shoal draft. For us it was the perfect boat, so many small things that added up to make it so. Details such as a hatch in the transom right behind the master bunk, so you could see out to the quayside or anyone boarding from your bed, or the layout, the spec of the deck gear, etc, etc, made it ideal.
While I agree with many here that many other boats would also be well suited to your need, and condition is king, and that perhaps a smaller boat would be better for a single hander, I did many offshore passages single handed without issue. In fact the boat looked after me perfectly. Obviously older boats need more maintenance as a general rule, but I have a strong bias towards British, Scandinavian or Dutch built boats of a certain age (or build spec). Not everyone here will agree, but wandering around boatyards all over the world and talking to owners, only reaffirms my bias in this respect.
Getting the skills and experience you need can be sped up by doing a delivery or two. The skippers are usually very experienced and happy to have a motivated and engaged crew.
In my view there are only a few places in the world with really excellent cruising. Everyone has their own preference, but time and again the South Pacific will be rated the highest by anyone who has sailed there. I would buy a boat in Tahiti and spend a few years in the South Pacific if I could (Raiatea-yacht.com - Broker | Bateau d'occasion à Tahiti, Nouvelle-Calédonie et Pacifique). The Caribbean and Eastern Med are also fine, but for me they pale in comparison (but maybe that's because I've worked in both as a skipper). Then come the other beautiful but often cold areas, where cruising can be limited to summer. So consider buying a boat 'in location' and learning there.
And I would definitely keep a property in the UK or some money back for one. You'll pass many wrecks and think that could easily have been us. £1400 a month for a solo sailor should be OK, but that's without much luxury. I'd say £500 for the boat per month is about right on average if you leave with everything working (to replace broken bits, but you can get used items cheap in many places). You can easily get crew for passages if needed, there are plenty of hitchhikers hanging around passage marinas, and it can be fun for a while, but having a boat you can single hand is a must as if you're like me, you'll need your own time and space.
Just go. You can sell and re buy if you get the choice wrong.
While I agree with many here that many other boats would also be well suited to your need, and condition is king, and that perhaps a smaller boat would be better for a single hander, I did many offshore passages single handed without issue. In fact the boat looked after me perfectly. Obviously older boats need more maintenance as a general rule, but I have a strong bias towards British, Scandinavian or Dutch built boats of a certain age (or build spec). Not everyone here will agree, but wandering around boatyards all over the world and talking to owners, only reaffirms my bias in this respect.
Getting the skills and experience you need can be sped up by doing a delivery or two. The skippers are usually very experienced and happy to have a motivated and engaged crew.
In my view there are only a few places in the world with really excellent cruising. Everyone has their own preference, but time and again the South Pacific will be rated the highest by anyone who has sailed there. I would buy a boat in Tahiti and spend a few years in the South Pacific if I could (Raiatea-yacht.com - Broker | Bateau d'occasion à Tahiti, Nouvelle-Calédonie et Pacifique). The Caribbean and Eastern Med are also fine, but for me they pale in comparison (but maybe that's because I've worked in both as a skipper). Then come the other beautiful but often cold areas, where cruising can be limited to summer. So consider buying a boat 'in location' and learning there.
And I would definitely keep a property in the UK or some money back for one. You'll pass many wrecks and think that could easily have been us. £1400 a month for a solo sailor should be OK, but that's without much luxury. I'd say £500 for the boat per month is about right on average if you leave with everything working (to replace broken bits, but you can get used items cheap in many places). You can easily get crew for passages if needed, there are plenty of hitchhikers hanging around passage marinas, and it can be fun for a while, but having a boat you can single hand is a must as if you're like me, you'll need your own time and space.
Just go. You can sell and re buy if you get the choice wrong.
Rob44
Active Member
Thanks Siwhi, such a long voyage from Glasgow to Sydney sounds like a fascinating seafaring adventure. Did you ever blog or publish anything about it anywhere? I can't help but think it would great to read about it all, and I of course appreciate reading your thoughts and advice; thank you so much.
I have only vaguely considered the idea of buying in French Polynesia. I was only watching a couple of lads YouTube their experience of buying an older catamaran out there just the other evening, but for me there's this huge appeal around actually sailing there, and all the places to visit and explore and experience en-route. Perhaps similar to why you might've sailed from Glasgow to Sydney?
Graham376
Well-Known Member
You always fall for the bait
I have no problems with whatever boat people buy, I bet there a few folks out there who don't like mine or your choice, that's life. When we made our last choice it was 23 years ago and no doubt production boats have changed since then.
Funny that our boat has everything listed as desirable on the OP's #60 post, except for the Hydrovane.
Cheers, G.
siwhi
Well-Known Member
Yes, I understand, it's the journey there that makes the adventure. But there's a tension between time allocation in where you find yourself today and where you know will be amazing. Atlantic Europe is under appreciated in my view, the Caribbean is easy to spend time in, but with diminishing returns, and there are loads of places I wish we'd gone but didn't stop at like Costa Rica. But the South Pacific needs years to explore.
Yes, we had a blog which the kids did, but I stopped paying for the website last year and it's closed as we didn't need it really. We have the pictures, charts, friends and memories. A pity of course, not to be able to share it, but there you go.
The shoal draft was an advantage a couple of times, as we could anchor right up the beach, or back up to some quays to the amazement of some, and it sailed fine (it points maybe 5 degrees lower to windward), but it wouldn't be a big factor in my decision making really, other things carry more weight.
I enjoy answering any questions, like we all do here, so don't hold back if you have any.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
I have partly answered that in post#63.
My situation 25 years ago was very different from yours. At the peak of my career, financially secure for a long retirement, children gone so able to plan well ahead within a generous budget without affecting our house or long term investments. It was popular then to do a circuit through Europe - down the French canals to the Med and either go east for lazy sunshine holidays or back round the outside for a bit of excitement and challenge. The Moody we first considered was good for the first part as like Graham's many had shoal draft Scheel keels that allowed passage through the canals. We knew enough about the first part from spending a lot of time in France, but had no experience of the Med hence chartering to find out what it was like before committing
As I said earlier it was then we realised that the Moody was not a good choice for drifting around the Med (and met many other Brits who had taken their boats there say the same). Also the last few years of working meant lots of pressure and time spent abroad casting doubt on the wisdom of starting from the UK and gradually working our way down to the Med either through the canals or round the outside. On the other hand being able to take 2 or 3 holidays a year out there until we retired was attractive. So we bought a new Bavaria 37 under a charter management scheme which gave us the holiday use and a ready to go boat when we were able to spend more time out there. We specified a shoal keel so that we had the option of coming back to UK via the Canal du Midi. For the first 9 years it worked out well. 7 years running it as a charter yacht then taking it over and spending more time on it with a view to starting the trip back in year 11 or 12 Unfortunately unexpected health problems put the lid on that in 2010 and I sailed it across to Spain then back to UK by truck as I had run out of time before the big OP to do the outside bit. Kept the boat in the UK for 4 years until my health improved to the point that I could justfy buying a new boat, another Bavaria, bit smaller and easier to handle for a not too active 70+ year old.
Going this route is what I mean by a boat for this type of project being a means not an end. If I stayed in the UK, or chose to go round the outside the Moody would have been perhaps a better choice, not least because they were more easily available than "modern" boats at the time. However, once the focus changed to majority Med use then the Bavaria (or similar from Beneteau or Jeanneau) were much more suited. I understand why people question their ability offshore, particularly the smaller ones compared with similar size boats from an earlier time. They are lighter and livelier and can become uncomfortable in heavy weather, particularly if things like biminis and stern gantries are added but they are tough and don't break. 7 years chartering in mine and nothing of consequence broke or fell apart. I sold it to a couple who did a modest refit and sailed it back to Spain where they kept it until recently. Last photos I saw when it was sold it looked as good as when I had it and they got about £10k more for it than they paid me. You will find Bavarias all round the world giving good service, many ex charter boats. In the early 2000s it was common for Australians and Kiwis to buy ex charter boats in Greece, mostly 45'+, spend a couple of years around the Med and then sail home to sell and recoup the costs of their project. Several went the hard way round Cape Horn.
One thing often forgotten is that when cruising you spend maybe 85% + of your time at anchor or moored up and a modern boat generally wins for this. In the Med of your 15% on the move, more than half will be under engine - less so obviously when open ocean sailing. Of the 15% on the move unless you go high latitudes, particularly southern maybe 1% or the 15% will be in heavy weather because if you are sensible you will plan your passages to avoid potential heavy weather. Much of the focus on boat choice is on heavy weather ability because that was important 60 years ago when mass ocean voyaging started. hence the attraction for some of heavy older boats which may be better. However if you look at the boats that have been designed in the last 30 years specifically for ocean voyagers, few follow that model. One caveat, though is that few are smaller than 12m and in the 10m size which is practical for singlehanders older boats are arguably better. I would be perhaps more comfortable with my current boat a well known 10m old heavy long keeler than my similar size last Bavaria. However I would be cursing its uncomfortable cockpit, poor sailing performance, cramped accommodation and amount of work required to keep it up to scratch.
I have deliberately ignored budget but as that grows so do your choices. The options at £20k are limited, but people do go off in boats that cost even less than that to buy. £50k starts to give you s real choice between old and new, double that and the choice becomes bewildering. Hence the importance of being clear about what you plan ro do and what you need to look for to achieve that.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
So how about all the other makes and models of <12 metre centre cockpit boats such as HR, Malo, Contest, Westerly etc. Which are all very similar designs? Forget about the teak deck problems which is another subject.
ashtead
Well-Known Member
You could of course take a new Moody designed by Bill D around the Med -there was a 45ac for sale secondhand built around 2017 which set off from Gosport but mindful it will be out of budget but it’s equipped. To my mind any sub 12m centre cockpit boat has the cockpit pitched rather high so while there nothing wrong in taking one there ,sailing around for summer months ,parking up at say Levkas and spending winter months in uk doing a temp role to restock piggy bank while living in whatever uk property is retained a centre cockpit works better on plus 12m and even then on some it leads to a small saloon after fitting in the cabins etc. a jeaneau DS 42 could be had for circa 130k again out of budget so the option is either plump for an old heavy Najad /malo etc or buy a newer Bav 39 say from mid 2000 which will give plenty of space - look at boats for sale in say Greece to give choices maybe ? I would be more driven by what kits on board though and while there nothing wrong list of Baggy is very comprehensive be prepared be disappointed of some of his must haves -our boat would fail on some of his tests I suspect but would happily go to Med. I would however fit a genset plus a water maker before setting off and a solar arch, maybe a wind generator davits and probably invest in a hard floor dinghy as opposed to air deck. That’s probably a 20k add on a nd I haven’t even mentioned lithium batteries and a new shiny anchor and chain yet. Good luck in your searches.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
What about them? Mostly now more than 30 years old and just like yours creatures of their time. Bavaria stopped making their CCs in 2001 but Benetau continued for a few years longer, mostly in the US. Even HR ceased CCs in sub 12m 10 years ago.
Says something about what new boat buyers prefer. I can understand a couple of long term liveaboards preferring the aft cabin layout, but for summer time sailing in the Med the balance of space usage is wrong I thought I had explained that quite clearly. It s not a right or wrong. It is assessing what is suitable for your planned usage. Just about all the smaller CCs were designed and sold in northern climates so hardly surprising you rarely see them owned by locals in southern Europe.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
All this talk about boat choice seems like the cart is being put before the horse. It really doesn't matter as much as people seem to think. It's as if you've decided to become a tradesman and you're focusing on whether to buy a Transit or a VW van. It's not the important bit right now.
The budget is very healthy, and the OP is obviously very analytical. This is probably a good trait in a pilot! It could also be a good attitude to bring to running a boat, but perfection is usually unattainable in the real world and you do need to know how to bodge and make do. I know too many people who get stuck in an expensive marina waiting on some part, when they could safely have bodged the issue and gone off and enjoyed themselves. You need the vitals to be working properly, and the rest is a case of judging what you can put up with.
Spending £15k on months of intensive courses sounds a bit crazy unless you really want all the bits of paper. I know a guy who did the RYA engine course and still couldn't find his fuel filter. You can learn all about course to steer and memorise every light and shape, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you'll likely find that in the real world you need to know how to use epoxy, how to rebuild an outboard carb, and how to feed yourself for a week without spending more than two minutes at a time in the galley.
Just to add a data point, we've cruised extensively as a family on both an older (1970s) centre cockpit Moody, and a larger aft cockpit Jeanneau. They both do the job. We sailed away having spent £40k total on the boat, including the lithium and Hydrovane upgrades. Every boat is a compromise and whilst we appreciate the extra speed and space of the new boat, we weren't unhappy with the old one- we only changed because we lost her in a hurricane while she was in storage.
The idea of spending a certain percentage of the purchase price on upgrades and annual repairs is very much a rule of thumb. If you need to put a new 50hp engine in a boat, it's not going to matter whether the boat cost £20k or £200k to buy. People do seem to spend a bit more maintaining and upgrading boats when they are more valuable, but that's probably because they have half an eye on resale value.
A friend of mine has, in his first year of ownership, spent so much on upgrades that he could have bought my boat twice for the money. Great if you can afford it. Well, actually, no it's not... he's had two lifts out and is getting a whole bunch of stuff re-done under warranty. My entire lithium system cost less than one of his Victron batteries. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, he has the money to not have to do it all himself. We're all drinking beers round the same fire on the same beach at the end of the day.
The budget is very healthy, and the OP is obviously very analytical. This is probably a good trait in a pilot! It could also be a good attitude to bring to running a boat, but perfection is usually unattainable in the real world and you do need to know how to bodge and make do. I know too many people who get stuck in an expensive marina waiting on some part, when they could safely have bodged the issue and gone off and enjoyed themselves. You need the vitals to be working properly, and the rest is a case of judging what you can put up with.
Spending £15k on months of intensive courses sounds a bit crazy unless you really want all the bits of paper. I know a guy who did the RYA engine course and still couldn't find his fuel filter. You can learn all about course to steer and memorise every light and shape, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you'll likely find that in the real world you need to know how to use epoxy, how to rebuild an outboard carb, and how to feed yourself for a week without spending more than two minutes at a time in the galley.
Just to add a data point, we've cruised extensively as a family on both an older (1970s) centre cockpit Moody, and a larger aft cockpit Jeanneau. They both do the job. We sailed away having spent £40k total on the boat, including the lithium and Hydrovane upgrades. Every boat is a compromise and whilst we appreciate the extra speed and space of the new boat, we weren't unhappy with the old one- we only changed because we lost her in a hurricane while she was in storage.
The idea of spending a certain percentage of the purchase price on upgrades and annual repairs is very much a rule of thumb. If you need to put a new 50hp engine in a boat, it's not going to matter whether the boat cost £20k or £200k to buy. People do seem to spend a bit more maintaining and upgrading boats when they are more valuable, but that's probably because they have half an eye on resale value.
A friend of mine has, in his first year of ownership, spent so much on upgrades that he could have bought my boat twice for the money. Great if you can afford it. Well, actually, no it's not... he's had two lifts out and is getting a whole bunch of stuff re-done under warranty. My entire lithium system cost less than one of his Victron batteries. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter, he has the money to not have to do it all himself. We're all drinking beers round the same fire on the same beach at the end of the day.
Rob44
Active Member
Thanks Sea Change, and of course everyone else taking the time to write extensive and informative replies.
I like the analogy of the tradesman and Transit/VW van, although I'll point out my knowledge of boats is minimal, so one of my primary aims includes reading of what boats people might buy. This then gives me a specific reference to learn about and therefore helps me with the process. I appreciate people's opinions might just suit something for them and not me, and that's perfectly fine. Already I'm pretty much set on a heavier Bluewater displacement, for example, but it's based on nothing more than what I read or see, so of course I want to hear of why people might instead suggest something that's not quite in that category.
I've seen people make some relation to boat and car manufacturers, although this is something I struggle to get my head around unless it's just a simple comparison of higher end/better build quality vs lower end, rather than sailing/driving performance.
I think I will want all the bits of paper for reasons mentioned earlier, but I'm currently looking at different course providers other than the UKSA mentioned earlier and how they differ. One I seen had a pre-course requisite of 100 miles which made excellent sense and something I'm now considering how best to achieve. I figure I need to look at the links for basic short crewing and seeing what's available there, or sign up for a short course, however, if any kind person would like to offer me some sailing experience at a weekend I'd be more than happy to cover any costs and not bombard them continually with inane questions
ashtead
Well-Known Member
Should you want crewing experience you might look at channel yacht club based in Epsom - I’m not a member but have attended lectures as non member by certain well known sailing guru as non member but it might give entree into opportunities
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
I would just keep an open mind for now. Take any opportunity to view boats in person. Even a stroll round a marina or yard is good. You never know who you end up chatting to.
One of the most influencial things I did was to read a book on yacht design. I'm not suggesting you need to do this, but it imprinted on me a conviction that every single design choice that goes in to a boat is made for a valid reason, and every boat is a compromise. There are very few 'bad' boats. I've owned four different yachts and they've each been quite different- a small long keeler, a lift keel, a fin and skeg, and now a fin and spade. I've appreciated the qualities of each design. I miss the robustness and shallow draft of the long keel boat, but I don't miss its windward ability and the potential for corrosion within the encapsulated iron keel. I miss the combination of windward ability and shallow draft that the lift keel gave me, but I don't miss the extra maintenance and clunking noises it made.
Even things that I would prefer not to have, like a saildrive, aren't all bad. It can make engine replacement easier, and it can make better use of the interior space.
Teak decks look gorgeous, if you end up with one you can keep it going for many years and enjoy the look of it. But I'd generally consider it a negative overall.
You've specifically mentioned that you want a heavy displacement bluewater cruiser. And there's not much wrong with that. One day you might find yourself caught out in heavier weather and you'll be quite glad of your choice. On the other hand, the remaining 99.99% of the time you might prefer to be on a lighter boat that can sail in light winds when the heavy type is burning diesel. A well found lightweight boat can still get you home safe, but it might be a bit less comfortable in the process.
These comparisons rarely make much sense. You've probably heard Halberg Rassy being described as the Mercedes of the sea. I think it's because they appeal to similar people. They are both considered quality, upmarket, conservative options. But I wouldn't get too worried about it all. On our travels we've met every sort of boat from homemade steel designs to brand new million pound catamarans. What matters is the mindset and abilities of the crew. Can you recognise dangers, can you fix things, do you have a healthy attitude to risk management?
A hundred miles probably sounds quite a lot from where you are, but it's less than a day at sea. Definitely start putting yourself out there and see who will take you on. Maybe you could get a group of mates together and do a flotilla charter in Greece?I think I will want all the bits of paper for reasons mentioned earlier, but I'm currently looking at different course providers other than the UKSA mentioned earlier and how they differ. One I seen had a pre-course requisite of 100 miles which made excellent sense and something I'm now considering how best to achieve. I figure I need to look at the links for basic short crewing and seeing what's available there, or sign up for a short course, however, if any kind person would like to offer me some sailing experience at a weekend I'd be more than happy to cover any costs and not bombard them continually with inane questions
KevinV
Well-Known Member
With what you have in mind you could imo do a lot worse than getting your CC and DS, renting your house out for a year and going out to the Med or Caribbean as unpaid crew.
You'd get a whole load of experience of various boats, various ways of doing things, all the maintenance tasks, how living on a boat actually works, insight into the real costs of running a boat, plus insight into what you personally do and don't actually need aboard. You'd also find yourself in good places to buy other's broken dreams cheap.
All for living expenses which you'd have anyway, and without burning any bridges - staying on the property ladder really is essential for long-term success imo.
You'd get a whole load of experience of various boats, various ways of doing things, all the maintenance tasks, how living on a boat actually works, insight into the real costs of running a boat, plus insight into what you personally do and don't actually need aboard. You'd also find yourself in good places to buy other's broken dreams cheap.
All for living expenses which you'd have anyway, and without burning any bridges - staying on the property ladder really is essential for long-term success imo.
mattonthesea
Well-Known Member
You reminded me of my brother's experience. He did a theory evening course in London donks ago. The students got together and chartered yachts, taking turns at skipper. All around the UK.They even delivered a RTW yacht back from Faro (I've forgotten the circumstances).
Boathook
Well-Known Member
Actually based in Ashtead at the cricket club.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
What you read and see is dominated by "heavy is best" for many reasons. First the "bluewater" narrative is dominated by the Anglo Saxon, particularly UK perspective. This is because the early writers and ocean sailors were mostly UK based and for obvious reasons used boats that were either converted fishing vessels or derived from them or pilot boats. Sailing around the UK waters is dominated by windward sailing, often in heavy weather and cold wet conditions, reinforced by racing where both the rules and race courses encouraged good windward performance. "standing up to a blow" "in case we get caught out" "able to heave too" were the sort of qualities that were considered desirable for a good boat. Cabin comforts were secondary and cockpits were as small and cramped as possible to hold the crew. Up to the 1970s just about every boat considered suitable for cruising and to an extent passage racing focused on these qualities. As has been discussed earlier these sorts of conditions only represent a tiny proportion, if any of most bluewater cruising unless you go serious high latitudes Things started to change mid 70s when GRP allowed boats of different shapes and pure cruising boat design moved away from both working boats and to an extent racing boats. In some ways it was the golden age of UK boat building as most of Europe except Scandinavia and maybe Holland lagged well behind UK in terms of leisure boating activity. Many, if not the majority of the boats considered desirable by the bluewater experts date from this period - just 20 years out of 75 years or so of post war leisure boating development.
So, if you are starting from the UK these are the sorts of boats you would choose, partly because that is what everybody else uses and partly because that is what is/was available to buy in the UK. However look across the channel to France and you see a very different picture. There was no tradition there of building heavy displacement boats because their sailing waters are warm, relatively benign. France now dominates the non US ocean sailing scene in all its forms and their boats are very different from anything coming from the UK. In fact there are virtually no builders of cruising boats in the UK now except at the top end. The shift happened around the 1990s. when boats like this theyachtmarket.com/en/boats-for-sale/jeanneau/sun-odyssey-39i/id2841438/ came on the UK market at prices 20-30% lower than similar size boats from UK builders. Hardly surprising that the UK builders gave up trying to compete. This sort of boat is just as capable of bluewater cruising but you don't hear much about them from a UK perspective.
Enough of the history. Despite what the old is better folks say you can't escape the fact that older heavy displacement boats represent a small minority of the boats used for bluewater cruising, except perhaps in the sub 10m size range. Of course people who own them say the qualities that they have are essential and they would not change - as Mandy Rice Davies said "they would say that wouldn't they?" - plus I suspect most have never owned or even sailed anything else. As I suggested in post#69 if you are buying in the UK and are looking at 10m you are mostly stuck with older style boats if on a small budget. Plenty of boats (like mine ) will do the job well in terms of seaworthiness on an all in budget of £30-40k Once you get up to £60k you get a choice of up to 12m and both old style and new like the Jeanneau. As you get to £100k and within 12m the choice of old style boats is much more limited. Remember none have been built for over 30 years but if you are wedded to that style you may well be able to find a really pristine example of a late boat. However just as new boat buyers found 30 years ago French and German boats sold in the UK simply offered better value for money and for ocean cruising more "livable" in warmer, light airs without sacrificing seaworthiness in any meaningful way.
Keep an open mind and look at lots of boats. It is difficult to imagine what it is actually like long distance sailing without doing it, but as many have said the success of such projects is less to do with the boat and more dependent on you, your attitude and the necessary skills you acquire on the way.
Other threads that may be of interest
