We are in a never to be repeated golden age of sailing.

[Chiara’s slave]

One of my mates is obsessed with the winches on our Sigma.

The lack of self tailing completely blows his mind and I’ve lost count of the amount of times he’s asked when I’m going to change them to the point he’s now programmed in my phone as ‘self tailing Steve’!

Our jib sheet winches are not self tailing. Nothing old fashioned about it, they have uses. In our case, the ability to very swiftly dump the sheet.

 

[Concerto]

One of my mates is obsessed with the winches on our Sigma.

The lack of self tailing completely blows his mind and I’ve lost count of the amount of times he’s asked when I’m going to change them to the point he’s now programmed in my phone as ‘self tailing Steve’!

Perhaps he should try my old Fulmar as I have over sized self tailing winches for sheets and halyards. Well worth the money I paid. The Lewmar 43st's for the genoa cost the astronomical sum of ............£200.......the pair secondhand. The old self tailing Antal 40's became the halyard winches.

 

[winch2]

Not sure I totally agree with the headline. First of all, the cost of keeping even a modest boat is now massive. Back in the early 80's we'd park up, drag the dinghy out of a hedge, chat to some ole longshoreman, row out and take the ole deep keeler out for a blast, cost us 10 quid a year.

Yes we took a bit of spray but had huge fun, drank coffee and ate stew on the go. Every outing was a real adventure and at days end we had Newtown/Beaulie all to ourselves and never really gave much thght regarding the boats internal dimensions, it was a boat. Funny thing is even today I like a boat where I can lean over the side and touch the water.....I like the connection.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Not sure I totally agree with the headline. First of all, the cost of keeping even a modest boat is now massive. Back in the early 80's we'd park up, drag the dinghy out of a hedge, chat to some ole longshoreman, row out and take the ole deep keeler out for a blast, cost us 10 quid a year.

Yes we took a bit of spray but had huge fun, drank coffee and ate stew on the go. Every outing was a real adventure and at days end we had Newtown/Beaulie all to ourselves and never really gave much thght regarding the boats internal dimensions, it was a boat. Funny thing is even today I like a boat where I can lean over the side and touch the water.....I like the connection.

On ours, you certainly can lean over the side and touch the water, but theres really no need. The water will come and touch you if you sit in the wrong place

 

[Keith 66]

Golden age? I think you are kidding yourself. The real golden age of yachting was the 70's & 80's when numbers of people sailing peaked. We had a large homegrown boating industry.
You only have to go to Burnham & see a largely empty river or Southend & see an empty foreshore that was once filled with boats. Club after club struggling for members & yards filled with dead end of life boats.
Some golden age.

 

[johnalison]

On ours, you certainly can lean over the side and touch the water, but theres really no need. The water will come and touch you if you sit in the wrong place

There’s a lot to be said for a low freeboard, and it doesn’t have to mean wet sailing. I remember sailing our Mystere in the Channel and me leaning across from my helm to pick a cuttlefish shell out of the water as a souvenir for the children.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Golden age? I think you are kidding yourself. The real golden age of yachting was the 70's & 80's when numbers of people sailing peaked. We had a large homegrown boating industry.
You only have to go to Burnham & see a largely empty river or Southend & see an empty foreshore that was once filled with boats. Club after club struggling for members & yards filled with dead end of life boats.
Some golden age.

Without doing the exercise you have to compare the cost of a standard boat be it 24 or 32 foot then and now. Also average disposable income, the change in expectations and yachts to meet them. In short sailing has moved on.

 

[potentillaCO32]

Golden age? I think you are kidding yourself. The real golden age of yachting was the 70's & 80's when numbers of people sailing peaked. We had a large homegrown boating industry.
You only have to go to Burnham & see a largely empty river or Southend & see an empty foreshore that was once filled with boats. Club after club struggling for members & yards filled with dead end of life boats.
Some golden age.

Exactly. Because of the decline in interest you can buy a fully functioning yacht for next to nothing.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Exactly. Because of the decline in interest you can buy a fully functioning yacht for next to nothing.

That is a consequence of decline, not a mark of a golden age. For example, The Golden Age of Dutch imperialism is not low cost vessels and decrepit boats, it’s a burgeoning economy, where wealth and opportunity was in abundance and service costs were high because of increased demand.

Would you call plague ridden England a Golden Age because of the abundance of empty houses and excessive turnips in the fields free for the picking?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

There’s a lot to be said for a low freeboard, and it doesn’t have to mean wet sailing. I remember sailing our Mystere in the Channel and me leaning across from my helm to pick a cuttlefish shell out of the water as a souvenir for the children.

The lee trampoline and outrigger are literally like a half tide rock, but the rest of the boat is quite civilised. You might have a couple of drops of spray in an hour of thrashing into 20kn of wind over tide, in the cockpit. But go out onto the lee tramp to take the kite down in those conditions requires a snorkel.

 

[Major_Clanger]

I may have posted something like this before.

When I first started sailing in the mid/late 80s in my late teens i looked at the westerly centaur as the popular family cruising boat and good ones were about 10k then. Similar for something like a sadler 26. Family boats were smaller then.

According to google, or AI, or something 10k in 1986 equates to around 40k now.

Yet it is possible to buy a very good centaur or westerly griffon for 6 - 7k. I saw one advertised for sale today with a 2004 engine and clearly well looked after for 7k. With the current market you could probably offer 5k and the seller would bite your arm off.

This is pretty recent, a sort of very gradual decline in prices from 2010 until covid which triggered a boom when you could ask silly money for anything, followed by a baloon pop of real vengence. To the extent that boatyards are scrapping biats at a rate of knots that they have never done before.

So for sailors this is the golden age. I know people say that it is madness paying 5k per year for a berth on a boat not even worth that, but it means that it is possible to get on the water and have fun for less in real terms than I spent on an evening out in Browns in Shoreditch in the 90s.

It is possible to get a seaworthy, comfortable boat, that has been looked after that is capable of crossing the channel for next to nothing.

I see this as a golden age of sailing. Far more accessible than it has ever been before. I don't think people see it, in the same way that most people never see the bottom of a market as a buying opportunity.

If boatyards keep scrapping boats at the rate they are doing then in a few years there will be more of the decent ones left and the supply/demand balance will start to return to normal.

My message is to those looking to buy, buy now and enjoy the value. It won't last.

I really wish I shared your optimism.

It's true that yards are scrapping more and more boats - and it's true that a half-decent seaworthy boat can be bought for practically nothing. But there's a reason for those things; far fewer people want those boats.

My parents had a Rival 34 built by (I think) Marcon and that was considered a BIG boat at the time for a normal family. Now it would be considered a bit of a tiddler. I have a Co26 which is dwarfed by everything in any marina I venture into. Few people want older 'classics' and their prices are stagnant. Yards are struggling to sell smaller boats.

I think part of the reason is that we seem to have far fewer younger people coming into sailing (except perhaps the dinghy fleets). The crowd at the yacht club bar seems to be getting older. Whenever I need crew for a delivery they're rarely under 40 and the days of tipping-up in any number of bars and finding crew has all-but disappeared. Many people are happy to charter but ownership is a no-no.

I think that situation will be exacerbated as the State/MCA/RYA/RNLI all clamour for ever more, often pointless, regulation, partly to justify their own existence.

I truly hope I'm wrong, but the golden age of yachting has long passed and I fear we're seeing a slow decline. Prices can only rise if demand outstrips supply, and I see little evidence of that in Britain.

 

[winch2]

But there's a reason for those things; far fewer people want those boats

Its not just the boats I also think laziness has a large part to play. You can still get a reasonable mooring but nobody (other than myself it seems) wants to row/motor a mile in a F6 north easterly to reach the boat. And then we have marina fees....in a word... 'Astronomical'. It may be a golden age for those with extremely deep pockets but for the rest of us with modest means and who just want to get out on the water I don't really see it.

 

[potentillaCO32]

I really wish I shared your optimism.

It's true that yards are scrapping more and more boats - and it's true that a half-decent seaworthy boat can be bought for practically nothing. But there's a reason for those things; far fewer people want those boats.

My parents had a Rival 34 built by (I think) Marcon and that was considered a BIG boat at the time for a normal family. Now it would be considered a bit of a tiddler. I have a Co26 which is dwarfed by everything in any marina I venture into. Few people want older 'classics' and their prices are stagnant. Yards are struggling to sell smaller boats.

I think part of the reason is that we seem to have far fewer younger people coming into sailing (except perhaps the dinghy fleets). The crowd at the yacht club bar seems to be getting older. Whenever I need crew for a delivery they're rarely under 40 and the days of tipping-up in any number of bars and finding crew has all-but disappeared. Many people are happy to charter but ownership is a no-no.

I think that situation will be exacerbated as the State/MCA/RYA/RNLI all clamour for ever more, often pointless, regulation, partly to justify their own existence.

I truly hope I'm wrong, but the golden age of yachting has long passed and I fear we're seeing a slow decline. Prices can only rise if demand outstrips supply, and I see little evidence of that in Britain.

I absolutely agree with everything that you say and it matches my experience. In retrospect I think I got my definition wrong.
I still think it is a golden age to buy a boat that I wanted as a youngster in the 80s/90s. Things like sigma 33 / rival 32 / sadler 32s seemed out of my reach then. Even going through the covid years the prices of those 80s boats firmed up.

The fact that i can buy a sigma 33 for next to nothing is a golden age for me.

I take your point that, especially in the uk, sailing generally is in long term decline.

 

[fredrussell]

If, as is often suggested on here, there is a dwindling of new/potential boat owners it’s interesting to ponder what the future holds for marinas when the current berthholders swallow the anchor.

 

[Dellquay13]

If, as is often suggested on here, there is a dwindling of new/potential boat owners it’s interesting to ponder what the future holds for marinas when the current berthholders swallow the anchor.

21’ pilot house fishing boats in every berth. They’ve been popular now for about 30 years and are still selling new. As older sailors disappear, these boats seem to be filling the gaps, either older 2nd hand stock or latest models. They are an easy way in to boating for newcomers, and popular with more experienced people who like the shelter compared to fishing boats 30 years ago. They still look reasonably modern too, for people who care about looks.

 

[Major_Clanger]

21’ pilot house fishing boats in every berth. They’ve been popular now for about 30 years and are still selling new. As older sailors disappear, these boats seem to be filling the gaps, either older 2nd hand stock or latest models.

Well, there's something to look forward to after all..........

 

[Sailing steve]

If, as is often suggested on here, there is a dwindling of new/potential boat owners it’s interesting to ponder what the future holds for marinas when the current berthholders swallow the anchor.

Boats will still have to be berthed or stored ashore somewhere regardless of who owns them or if they're wanted or not, or they're used or not or even if they're actually unsaleable and therefore worthless and marinas know so long as a boat exists they can carry on cashing in on that guaranteed revenue stream.

The only way any marina is ever gonna lose out is if boat owners en masse flog what they can from their boats for scrap then fire up a chainsaw and put the rest in a skip.

 

[Stemar]

My parents had a Rival 34 built by (I think) Marcon and that was considered a BIG boat at the time for a normal family.

In with the paperwork of our Snapdragon 24 when we bought her was a yottie comic revue that described the 24 as a capable family cruiser. Well, for us, she was, as our family was two people most of the time and we'd spend a week or more without setting foot ashore at times, and we had a couple of guests aboard quite often, but only for a weekend.

 

[Blueboatman]

I’ve been lucky enough over the years to sail ( race) on a falmouth oyster boat and a class one Essex smack. And a ‘rent it’ pilot cutter newbuild..
In some ways those guys seem to have a great set up- groups use, maintain and support them, there is docking support and a general public wish to see and enjoy them out on the water. And they are iconic, timeless and part of the country’s maritime history.

That’s a long way from the old duffer (me then!) polishing his way around acres of topside and dipping into liquid gold antifouling , with the latest pocket full of service invoices. And adverts for ‘essential’ electronic upgrades hidden from his missus !
There is a perfectly acceptable Co32 in Eastbourne marina that was on the market at I think £9k.
It is now £5k or so on FB!
£5k Co32
And that is a young persons credit card level access to yachting, to a floating home, an evening day sailor ffs, an adventure, a life change, more… these things are a steal.
If (IF) you can sort out a diy yard or non corporate mooring.
Meanwhile the pips get squeezed more n more

 

[Major_Clanger]

In with the paperwork of our Snapdragon 24 when we bought her was a yottie comic revue that described the 24 as a capable family cruiser. Well, for us, she was, as our family was two people most of the time and we'd spend a week or more without setting foot ashore at times, and we had a couple of guests aboard quite often, but only for a weekend.

And I bet nobody complained about lack of space. It was, perhaps, a more innocent age where people were more easily won over by a sense of adventure.

Mum and Dad had a SCOD before the Rival, though my memories of her are vague. They bought 'Stall Turn', the R34, because Dad planned to sail us all to New Zealand to start a new life (he was a Kiwi). I remember the planning stage quite well but the closest we got was a week in the Channel Islands!