How to get a Private VHF Frequency

[wonkywinch]

You could also buy a suitable radio from an amateur radio dealer and have it "wide banded". For example, it is perfectly feasible to wide band the Yaesu FT65, then using a programming cable and a free app called CHIRP to programme the radio across the marine band inc duplex offset for channels that require it etc.

You can also add the PMR channels via CHIRP as well as the amateur frequencies, CTSS tones & offset for repeaters etc etc **

Yaesu FT-65E VHF/UHF 2m/70cm Dual Band FM Handheld

Download - CHIRP

** = properly licensed operators only ;-)

 

[Plum]

But that's frankly internet bawlocks.

The set is shown to confirm to a range of frequencies..the set manufacturer certified that. The set manufacturer (or their agent*) adds additional channels. It doesn't invalidate the conformance - they are making a frequency combination available within the conformance.

If it's a Icon Radio it would likely be added as a P channel. P meaning Programmed. They P channel M2 (shows as P4 on some sets) which is unique to the UK.

If you are opening the radio up and desoldering things or adding shit on - that's affecting the conformance. Adding a frequency that is within the range the set was tested for, to a drop down list is not. That's EXACTLY how the MCA, RNLI etc sets are done to enable Ch 0.


Likewise they can disable channels (e.g. for a land base unit who shouldn't be using most channels) and they can reverse the Duplex for the same reason. All without invalidating the conformity that the radio transmits correct watts on correct frequency.

They may well suggest a "better" base station - because you don't need DSC on a base unit normally...

This is like taking a car and having a tow bar fitted... It's within the design spec

---

*In the past you might have been able to download software and get a lead to do it yourself, you likely can't these days. Assuming it's a modern Icom or SH set you'll need a dealer with the software. GaelForceMarine can do it.

Agree, there is already provision for private channels in the marine vhf when it is supplied as certified so the radio is not modified, it is just a case of activating the required channels using a PC and the appropriate software. The radio is not opened up or modified.

 

[Refueler]

We'll differ then ....

Frequency is not just allowed ... the manner its used is also part of the CE as example.

It may be RC world - but it still falls in the RF CE / UL matters ... For some years now certain formats such as D8 are not allowed in EU ... D16 took over ... same frequency band ..... there are various items still using D8 .. but they are illegal in EU ...
Again I repeat - the frequency band used is exactly same as the D16 and later formats ....

So now consider that standard VHF Radio ... you have it modified to use the Shore Based side of Duplex instead of the original Ship Based side ... The frequency band is same as before - but modification of the unit has been made. Same argument basically ... the use of the frequency band has now been made outside of the CE certification. It is not just soldering / desoldering items ... it goes far deeper than that.

If the modification is made by the Manufacturers or Licenced Dealer within the terms of the CE certification - then fine - I agree - not a problem. But I am skeptical of it ... and TBH - even if possible - costs ??

 

[Refueler]

Agree, there is already provision for private channels in the marine vhf when it is supplied as certified so the radio is not modified, it is just a case of activating the required channels using the appropriate software.

If the radio is so equipped AND certified for such - then I agree ...

My contention is the suggestion to MODIFY a radio ...

 

[Alicatt]

If the radio is so equipped AND certified for such - then I agree ...

My contention is the suggestion to MODIFY a radio ...

This is the page from the software programming manual for my Standard Horizon HX890E which allows the user to modify what channels are on the radio, this is for the EXPanded mode but the same can be done for the normal channels, you can add and delete from channel 0 on up


Just read from my radio: and right if I wanted to put channel 0 on my radio no problem - I have not done so.

 

[Refueler]

Alicatt >>>>>>

Seems my explanation is missed ...

Deletion / adding of accepted certified channels is not my point.

The OP wants comms from shore to his boats ... one of the ways is via use of a Licenced Shore Based VHF ... this can use normal simplex ch's ... along with the SHORE side frequency of the Duplex ch.s

Lets try again ... Modification of the normal shipboard VHF to be a Shore Based unit - would be when the DUPLEX ch's are swapped from SHIP part - to SHORE ... that is not same as what you show with your SH unit ...

There is another factor of course .... EU is stricter on RF matters than for example the USA ... I see this in various RF apparatus ... RC and communications. In various US based gear is actually illegal to be sold EU due to its power or band use ... notice the EU bit on end of say Cobra and other VHF's to be EU sale ??

 

[Alicatt]

Alicatt >>>>>>

Seems my explanation is missed ...

Deletion / adding of accepted certified channels is not my point.

The OP wants comms from shore to his boats ... one of the ways is via use of a Licenced Shore Based VHF ... this can use normal simplex ch's ... along with the SHORE side frequency of the Duplex ch.s

Lets try again ... Modification of the normal shipboard VHF to be a Shore Based unit - would be when the DUPLEX ch's are swapped from SHIP part - to SHORE ... that is not same as what you show with your SH unit ...

There is another factor of course .... EU is stricter on RF matters than for example the USA ... I see this in various RF apparatus ... RC and communications. In various US based gear is actually illegal to be sold EU due to its power or band use ... notice the EU bit on end of say Cobra and other VHF's to be EU sale ??

I do understand what you are saying, however
Swapping the radio from ship based to shore based duplex (reverse duplex operation) is an option in the above software.
The radio can hold up to 3 sets of frequencies or channel allocations selected from US, UK, Swedish, German, The Netherlands, Belgian, International. Selecting which set is a mater of holding down 2 buttons when switching it on.
The US has a different allocation and usage of the channels and they are quite rigorously monitored and policed compared with the UK or even the EU

 

[Refueler]

I do understand what you are saying, however
Swapping the radio from ship based to shore based duplex (reverse duplex operation) is an option in the above software.
The radio can hold up to 3 sets of frequencies or channel allocations selected from US, UK, Swedish, German, The Netherlands, Belgian, International. Selecting which set is a mater of holding down 2 buttons when switching it on.
The US has a different allocation and usage of the channels and they are quite rigorously monitored and policed compared with the UK or even the EU

As I already said - IF the Conformance Certification allows changes - then I agree ...

As to EU - it is tighter than a Ducks a*** ... as to which is 'tighter' .. USA or EU - depends on the gear in question.

 

[EugeneR]

If the radio is so equipped AND certified for such - then I agree ...

That was the intended case i.e. legally obtaining a frequency aka "channel" in the designed range of the radio, and enabling it.

That said, and for respectful debate, I am not convinced that certification is relevant here.

In my view, there is nothing wrong with owning or even using a non-certified radio, as long as your transmissions comply with the requirements i.e. license terms, band plan, and interface specifications, etc.

In other words, nobody cares how you generate the signals, as long as the signals are legal.

Here is why I think so:

First, consider that with a ham license you are allowed - even expected - to build your own equipment which - almost by definition - is modified and not certified.

Secondly, I checked my 3 licenses (business, ham and marine) and they all focus on "use", not "own".

Finally, the Ofcom pages seem to clarify that certification applies to importing and sale, not use, to prevent interference from users not knowing e.g. selecting the wrong channel or selecting too high a power setting, etc. (Except for jammers, which they suggest are illegal to own).

Ultimately, as I said, it makes no difference in this case, as the proposal was to obtain and enable a channel within the radio's certified range - which we agree should be OK.

 

[st599]

That was the intended case i.e. legally obtaining a frequency aka "channel" in the designed range of the radio, and enabling it.

That said, and for respectful debate, I am not convinced that certification is relevant here.

In my view, there is nothing wrong with owning or even using a non-certified radio, as long as your transmissions comply with the requirements i.e. license terms, band plan, and interface specifications, etc.

In other words, nobody cares how you generate the signals, as long as the signals are legal.

Here is why I think so:

First, consider that with a ham license you are allowed - even expected - to build your own equipment which - almost by definition - is modified and not certified.

Secondly, I checked my 3 licenses (business, ham and marine) and they all focus on "use", not "own".

Finally, the Ofcom pages seem to clarify that certification applies to importing and sale, not use, to prevent interference from users not knowing e.g. selecting the wrong channel or selecting too high a power setting, etc. (Except for jammers, which they suggest are illegal to own).

Ultimately, as I said, it makes no difference in this case, as the proposal was to obtain and enable a channel within the radio's certified range - which we agree should be OK.

That's not correct, some amateurs have an exemption from the Radio Teletype Terminal Equipment regulations, some are restricted to only commercially available equipment.

For those who are allowed to build their own kit:
The Licensee shall ensure that:
a) the emitted frequency of the apparatus comprised in the Radio Equipment is as stable and as free from
Unwanted Emissions as the state of technical development for amateur radio apparatus reasonably
permits;
b) whatever class of emission is in use, the bandwidth occupied by the emission is such that not more than
1% of the mean power of the transmission falls outside the nominal modulated carrier bandwidth3; and
c) the establishment, installation, modification or use of the Radio Equipment is carried out in accordance
with the provisions set out in Schedule 3 of this Licence in relation to electromagnetic field (EMF)
exposure.
Notwithstanding any other terms of this Licence, the Licensee shall ensure that the Radio Equipment is
designed, constructed, maintained and used so that its use does not cause any Undue Interference to any wireless
telegraphy
If any Undue Interference to wireless telegraphy is caused by the radiation of Unwanted Emissions from the
Radio Equipment, then the Licensee shall suppress the Unwanted Emissions to the degree satisfactory to Ofcom.
The Licensee shall conduct tests from time to time to ensure that the requirements set out in this Clause 7 are
met.

The current Amateur RTTE tests are given in: https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301700_301799/301783/02.01.01_60/en_301783v020101p.pdf

For marine band use, the RTTE tests are listed in: https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/301000_301099/301025/02.03.01_60/en_301025v020301p.pdf

 

[Mark-1]

In my view, there is nothing wrong with owning or even using a non-certified radio, as long as your transmissions comply with the requirements i.e. license terms, band plan, and interface specifications, etc.

I'm going to do that annoying thing and contradict you without linking to a source...

A couple of years back I tried to find out what frequencies my marine VHF license covered me for. The answer was that it wasn't done on frequency it was done on certified kit. (Or at least certified kit was one criteria.) So it's not simply a case that there's a range of frequencies in which you're fine.

So my scanner isn't 'legal' on marine bands even though I have a license. Not that anyone cares.

 

[Refueler]

Its always been possible to 'legally' own a non certified unit ... but that it became illegal the moment you use it ...

This was highlighted during the early days of CB Radio in UK ... loads of sets were brought in from outside UK ... 27mhz band ... They were only illegal when powered up and used ... until laws were changed to allow the 27Mhz band to be used ... (this caused the issue of alternative RC Model bands) ..

As far as I am aware ... an example area that simply ownership can lead to prosecution (lets leave out drugs !) .. is Firearms ... there are others - but that comes to mind first.

 

[Alicatt]

Its always been possible to 'legally' own a non certified unit ... but that it became illegal the moment you use it ...

This was highlighted during the early days of CB Radio in UK ... loads of sets were brought in from outside UK ... 27mhz band ... They were only illegal when powered up and used ... until laws were changed to allow the 27Mhz band to be used ... (this caused the issue of alternative RC Model bands) ..

As far as I am aware ... an example area that simply ownership can lead to prosecution (lets leave out drugs !) .. is Firearms ... there are others - but that comes to mind first.

There was a change in the law in regards to speed camera radar/laser detectors in the middle 2000's, I have an original Road Angel which became illegal to have if it was not modified to block it from receiving both radar and laser energy that is used in the police speed enforcement devices. Road Angel put out a firmware update that removed the capability of the Road Angel from receiving those transmissions, I lost the USB cable for the road angel about that same time

My younger brother had an American detector, but it was an active one that could resend the radar or laser back to the device, thereby confusing the speed measuring equipment, it was because of devices like that that the law was changed in their regard.

Edit: on a similar note, the numberplate recognition average speed camera system in Belgium has been crashing as the number of speeders needing to be checked by the system has overwhelmed the database server bringing it down.
I used to work with and program those systems for one of the manufacturers back around 2004/2005, I know our system was a bit better than the one used for the London Congestion Charge back then but it was still on the edge of being overwhelmed even when used for one depot. You could get the full UK ANPR database on one DVD back then too.

 

[oldharry]

Going back to the suggestion of using PMR as a cheaper alternative, a standard set will havea range of at least half a mile from indoors. I used to manage security on a large site half a mile from a Marina. We were sometimes interrupted by users at the Marina talking to each other, to the extent we had a standard channel change procedure for all stations without revealing the new Channel number. All stations to Channel Oscar. No licence or permit was needed for any of it.

We had up to 12 handhelds in operation at any one time, all Icoms: PMR Handheld Two Way radio - Icom UK

Icom were brilliant in that if any of them failed they would repair/replace foc, even if they had been damaged or dropped.