How do folks feel about Chat GPT texts on the forum?

[GHA]

Nice to see I'm in there as well Just as riddled with bias as every other big brained monkey on the planet though knowing that does seem useful.

Here are examples of emotive language and associated human biases from the forum thread:

1. "I don't think of myself as a technophobe, but..." (fredrussell)
   Bias: Status quo bias - Reluctance to embrace new technology
2. "When a Chatbot text is copied and pasted into a thread I feel it's a bit like Moses turning up with the ten commandments during a community discussion on morality." (fredrussell)
   Bias: Appeal to tradition - Viewing AI as an unwelcome intrusion into traditional forum discussions
3. "I am way to old to start using it, so not even looking at it." (Sandy)
   Bias: Age bias - Assuming older people can't or shouldn't adapt to new technology
4. "Now it's morphing into something that will either save mankind or destroy it." (Bouba)
   Bias: Black-and-white thinking - Viewing AI in extreme terms without considering nuanced outcomes
5. "Maybe I'm just getting too old for all this." (greeny)
   Bias: Age bias - Similar to Sandy's comment, assuming age prevents adaptation
6. "Current 'AI' is just a glorified search engine and content aggregator - Google on steroids." (KevinV)
   Bias: Anchoring bias - Comparing AI to familiar technology, potentially underestimating its capabilities
7. "In 2 seconds blows 99% of the replies on here into touch without the bias and grumpiness." (GHA)
   Bias: Overconfidence bias - Exaggerating AI's capabilities and dismissing human contributions
8. "Yes, Like a B/s Artiste who knows 90% of what he is talking about but makes up the rest." (Frank Holden)
   Bias: Negativity bias - Focusing on potential inaccuracies rather than overall usefulness
9. "If AI becomes the norm ... if it gets better at being accurate ... then most of the fun will go from forums ... we'll lose the alternative ways people come up with to solve things ...." (Refueler)
   Bias: Loss aversion - Focusing on potential losses rather than potential gains from AI integration

These examples demonstrate various emotional reactions and biases towards AI and its use in forum discussions, ranging from skepticism and fear to overconfidence and dismissal of human contributions.

 

[Refueler]

My comment about the losses on Forums if AI becomes the norm ... is with regard to the community aspect of forums rather than correctness.

Also that many aspects of boating from terminolgy to how to - have different solutions ... making forums interesting. Not every solution is text book ... some in fact when suggested appear daft - but in reality work !

How will AI cover such ? Most likely by losing such diverse solutions.

 

[Daydream believer]

Exactly right....AI needs three things, incredible processing power, vast amounts of raw data and huge storage facilities

You mean like the combined human brains of the PBO forum?
Would need some developement to get that far.
Cannot see how it could ever match the informed reasoning of the forum

 

[GHA]

having seen that ChatGTP is different to Perpelexity I gave it a shot and asked the identical question 'Where are there travelifts in Chile?'
This was its response- a fast food cafe in a shopping mall in La Serena!?

That's really not surprising given the colossal amount of data being searched and the completely vague search. To use a tool you need to learn how to use it, context makes a massive difference. And your obvious bias just wanted to see a black and white "told you it was rubbish" so stopped there...

"I have a 14m 10 tonne sailing boat in Chile. I want to have it lifted out of the water in a boatyard with hard standing for maintenance. List in detail all possibilities . Give the age of the data as an indicator of accuracy. I am a long distance cruising sailor, add anything else which might be of interest for each result like local spares availability, transport etc for each or anything else which might be of relevance or interest like local tourist activities, trekking etc. Format for easy cut and paste into a forum, do not include any tables but just text"

Answer
Here's a detailed list of boatyard options in Chile for lifting your 14m, 10-tonne sailing boat, along with additional information that might be of interest to a long-distance cruising sailor:

Club Deportes Nauticos Reloncavi (Club Nautico), Puerto Montt​

• Data age: Information from 2011, may not be current
• Facilities: 27-ton travelift and 10-ton crane
• Hard standing: Available
• Additional services: Boatyard with electrical, mechanical, and rigging services
• Contact: [email protected], +56 9 6219 9858
• Location: 41°30.008'S, 072°59.235'W
• Nearby attractions: Puerto Montt is a gateway to Patagonia, offering opportunities for trekking and exploring the Chilean fjords
• Transportation: Regular bus services connect Puerto Montt with destinations throughout Chile and Argentina

Marina del Sur, Puerto Montt​

• Data age: Information from 2011, may not be current
• Facilities: Yacht lift capable of handling vessels up to 65 feet and 40 tons
• Hard standing: Available
• Location: 41°29.414'S, 072°58.928'W
• Contact: [email protected], +56 (65) 225 1958
• Nearby attractions: Similar to Club Nautico, access to Patagonian wilderness and fjords

Navik Patagonia, Chiloé Island​

• Data age: Current as of 2024
• Facilities: 15,000 m² for yacht parking, various working areas
• Expertise: Aluminum and steel works, carpentry, paint works, mechanics, hydraulics, and electrical services
• Location: Chiloé Island, at the entrance/exit of Patagonia
• Additional info: Described as one of the best cruising areas in the world
• Nearby attractions: Explore the unique culture and landscapes of Chiloé Island

ASMAR Magallanes Shipyard, Punta Arenas​

• Data age: Information from 2024
• Facilities: Marine railway for ships up to 3,570 tons, 9 docking positions
• Certifications: ISO-9001:2008, ISPS Code approved
• Location: Av. Bulnes # 05275, Punta Arenas, Chile
• Contact: +56-61 221 4151
• Additional info: Southernmost shipyard in the world
• Nearby attractions: Gateway to Antarctic expeditions, Magallanes National Reserve, penguin colonies

Marina Yacht Club de Chile, Región de Valparaíso​

• Data age: Information from 2021
• Facilities: 12-ton capacity jib crane, 2-ton capacity jib cranes
• Additional services: Vessel maintenance
• Location: -33.02590 N, -71.58144 E
• Contact: +56322660802
• Nearby attractions: Valparaíso's colorful hillside neighborhoods, UNESCO World Heritage site

General tips for cruising sailors in Chile:

1. Spare parts availability can be limited in remote areas. Stock up on essentials in major ports like Valparaíso or Puerto Montt.
2. Chile has strict environmental regulations. Ensure your boat complies with local standards for waste management and antifouling.
3. The Patagonian channels offer breathtaking cruising but can be challenging. Ensure you have up-to-date charts and weather information.
4. Consider joining local sailing communities or clubs for valuable local knowledge and support.
5. Chile offers diverse landscapes for trekking, from the Atacama Desert in the north to Torres del Paine in the south. Plan some land-based adventures between sailing legs.
6. Be prepared for variable weather conditions, especially in the southern regions.
7. Learn basic Spanish to facilitate communication with local authorities and service providers.

Remember to contact the facilities directly for the most up-to-date information on their services and availability
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Quick check on noforeignland & these seem to be go0d enough to be useful.

It's not the end of the world or a bucket of wrongness, just another tool, which can be extremely useful if you don't let your biases throw all the babies out with the bathwater.

For solo offshore passages I'm putting together a list of questions to be answered as objectively as possible each noon log entry to see if there's anything interesting to find on the state of head on a long passage, masses of data will also be available from a raspberry pi like wind, pitch & roll, huge amounts of data recorded every second from signalk. data analysis is something perplexity is very good at. Considered starting a thread on here but it's obvious that would be like asking a US beef farmers chat room about the possible benefits of a vegetarian diet

 

[fredrussell]

As I said in OP, this stuff is obviously here to stay and will only be getting more efficient and more accurate as time goes on. I imagine in the very near future if Frank were to do another search for travel-lifts in Chile the results would be much better. It’s obviously a massively powerful tool, but my question is does it improve a forum that, like all forums, works by the sharing of knowledge gained from experience. Regrettably, just about everyone on here is a more experienced sailor than me - but that’s why I’m here.

 

[Bouba]

You mean like the combined human brains of the PBO forum?
Would need some developement to get that far.
Cannot see how it could ever match the informed reasoning of the forum

A forum is AI...without the A

 

[Neeves]

My comment about the losses on Forums if AI becomes the norm ... is with regard to the community aspect of forums rather than correctness.

Also that many aspects of boating from terminolgy to how to - have different solutions ... making forums interesting. Not every solution is text book ... some in fact when suggested appear daft - but in reality work !

How will AI cover such ? Most likely by losing such diverse solutions.

People questioned 'Saildrives', Rod rigging, fibre glass, dyneema, carbon fibre in sails, GPS - we are a sceptical bunch. As long as we continue to question the forums then some forums will thrive.

Or we will be but lambs to the slaughter.

I don't see much future for PBO, the magazine - so Forum will morph toward the Cruiser Forum model (because the hard copy, subscriptions and adverts pay for the Forum)

I have faith

 

[Neeves]

Regrettably, just about everyone on here is a more experienced sailor than me - but that’s why I’m here.

I think you do yourself an injustice. The fact you posted the OP means you think, and are maybe concerned.

Jonathan

 

[RivalRedwing]

I am in the 'envious' position of assessing project work from postgraduate students, the level of guff produced by AI generated text is now at epidemic levels and as it continues to develop then the quality will get better. Fortunately for me their work requires them to present and interpret original data, something they occasionally completely forget to do... that simplifies the marking process somewhat.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Here is why AI will never be accepted on this Forum at least.

I asked Perplexity the following question ...

"What are the key features of Bavaria Yachts that make them suitable for ocean crossings?"

This was the answer ....



Case closed I think, it is accepted wisdom that without an encapsulated keel, a random-thickness hand-layup from the 80s, a skeg-hung rudder, and cramped cockpit and accommodation, you can't take your boat any further than Draycote Water.

 

[Roberto]

I am in the 'envious' position of assessing project work from postgraduate students, the level of guff produced by AI generated text is now at epidemic levels and as it continues to develop then the quality will get better. Fortunately for me their work requires them to present and interpret original data, something they occasionally completely forget to do... that simplifies the marking process somewhat.

A friend is head of a university fundamental physics department, she said when they have ongoing recruitments for researchers, after the first screening of papers, lectures etc they ask the final row of candidates to make a video while describing themselves and their works. She said "fed up with looking at 20 career resumes all identically written by chatgpt, videos are often a lot more helpful, you immediately identify candidates who just deserve to be dropped from the selection process"

 

[harvey38]

The beauty of this forum is that it is generally based on opinions and experiences from people with many years of experience. I fear AI cannot replace that.

 

[Roberto]

These examples demonstrate various emotional reactions and biases towards AI and its use in forum discussions, ranging from skepticism and fear to overconfidence and dismissal of human contributions.

That's normal, humans Vs machine. A machine "trained" to work with a specific logic which neutral-izes biases will find all sorts of biases in humans.
Happily so as it's what makes reading interesting, it would be otherwise very dull. The main path very often leads to mediocrity -sort forgot the author.
Take beauty for example: AI may create a perfect body, but what one does actually fall in love with? An odd shape of nose, a different way of walking, a soft accent, some shape of chin or lips, that singular look in the eyes; let alone having a discussion with AI probably the most boring thing in the world.
Technical subjects are not too different, sure 2+2=4, but also equals 3+1 or 5-1, the interest in other people's opinion is raising doubts and/or adding additional questions, dubito ergo sum being imho the base of western world thinking. Unfortunately most internet participants are looking for answers, so most internet content is structured to give answers, from YT "today I am going to show you how..." videos, to people so full of certainties (and often of themselves) with their "definitive answer". I prefer to just read along and filter with my own biases.

 

[Wansworth]

Current "AI" is just a glorified search engine and content aggregator - Google on steroids.

It's fed by content scraped from the rest of the web, so is only as reliable as that source. Feed it 10 articles stating grass is orange and 1 stating it's is green and it will tell you that the consensus view is that grass is orange. It will get even less reliable as it starts ingesting it's own content. Even 5 years ago using the internet to do research was fraught with danger - I found a string of 10 or 11 articles (each referring to each other) saying the same (wrong) thing, eventually traced back to a single unproven wild claim. AI will make tracing things like this harder as it is essentially a "black box".

The old computer addage of BS in, BS out does of course also hold true for
forum members on many subjects - simply regurgitating what we have previously been told.
Where the forum comes into its own is when members share actual experience, and creative thinking - neither of which a bot can do (yet)

Can AI end up on the beach?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

The beauty of this forum is that it is generally based on opinions and experiences from people with many years of experience. I fear AI cannot replace that.

Some of the answers relating to other questions I asked Perplexity included sources from this forum in the response.

 

[doug748]

Well it may still have the bias… it’s entirely possible for it to very convincingly tell your the wrong answer.

As others have observed, I see it as just a zhuzhed up search engine; with the added defect of appearing to know what it is talking about. A grisly tool to put in the hands of the gullible; ask it the right questions and it can prove anything for you, plus making you sound like a smarty pants.
It probably has a number of very useful trivial applications and a number of dangerous ones

I now get this automated stuff when I Googlise things. This is my current favourite, returned when requesting advice about the weight of diesel fuel:

"12 gallons of diesel weighs approximately 875–2,100 pounds, depending on the size of the fuel tank."


PS

If spotted on the forum a AB alarm should be sounded:

AB alarm - Automated Bullshit.


.

 

[Daydream believer]

A forum is AI...without the A

No! it is we, without the "you"

 

[Daydream believer]

Technical subjects are not too different, sure 2+2=4, but also equals 3+1 or 5-1,

In AI -4 is 100.

 

[ylop]

GHA - I think you should get AI to teach you the difference between bias and prejudice!

 

[ylop]

A friend is head of a university fundamental physics department, she said when they have ongoing recruitments for researchers, after the first screening of papers, lectures etc they ask the final row of candidates to make a video while describing themselves and their works. She said "fed up with looking at 20 career resumes all identically written by chatgpt, videos are often a lot more helpful, you immediately identify candidates who just deserve to be dropped from the selection process"

I have a lot of sympathy for that position, but of course video can introduce a whole range of other issues: gender (or appearance thereof), skin colour, attractiveness, accent (potentially indicating class), etc all become risks - now of course those apply once you get to face to face interviews too. I’m actually surprised that most of the last 20 aren’t already known to the selectors, accademic physics is a narrow enough field. Slightly oddly the classic stereotype of a great video intro and a traditional physics researcher are probably rather different. That may be why she’s using this technique… but it does create the applicant with a dilemma - do they adapt their style/content to a second guess what the recruiter wants? Does the better physicist get the job, or the one with a friend who makes videos for a living and has good equipment?

If they are not already doing it, the script or story board for the video will be getting chat gpt treatment, and I’m sure there are ai tools to clean up video content / editing, graphics and probably audio etc too.

I do like the idea of a video elevator pitch as a screening technique - I just hope they are clear (to themselves and candidates) on what the videos are being assessed against and have marking sheets that make sure those are the only criteria used.