Helicopter Rescue off Dover

[marklucas]

It will be interesting ...

... to see if the MCA / MAIB (not sure it would be in MAIB's remit) to considerable any of the "social network" evidence in this case, but clearly a precedent has been set.

 

[dunedin]

With the right boat & crew I'll sail in a 10 anyday..... just as long as we have a pleasant destination with good food & great beer…. plus totty & live music always a bonus....

If you haven’t been out in these conditions for a while it will take a couple of days to become acclimatised, empty the contents of your stomach, acquire your sea legs & start to eat & function again….. but that’s just all part of sailing.

Sorry, I don't know if this is a troll, joke .... or serious.

With the right boat in the right place - ie with lots of sea-room to leeward - that might be the case. But in a typical boat, like the First 40.7 here and/or without many miles of sea-room this would be very unlikely to be even moderately realistic.
As another has said, only RNLI and rescue tugs should sensibly go to sea in F10 or above.

From my limited experience in such conditions I doubt if any modern sailing boat below 70ft or so would make any progress to windward off a lee shore, under sail or engine or both. And there is zero margin for error or gear failure - or the stronger gusts (F11 or 12) a mean F10 implies.

Even in a BT Challenge boat with sheltering land to windward we had solid water regularly over the deckhouse, crew on the foredeck unable to hear instructions being shouted from the mast position (distance 30 ft), and extremely unpleasant below decks

Sorry but I cannot personally conceive of any situation where it would be safe to go out into a true F10 in coastal waters (ie outside a very sheltered river but without ocean searoom) in a sailing yacht.
But I may be wrong and inexperienced wimp as I lack any paper certificates, just 40 years making smaller mistakes (so far)

 

[rib]

prehaps talulah better remove an innocent party profile

 

[photodog]

It would be interesting to see what the actual wind state was from say 1am to 8am or so... between Brighton and Ramsgate..

There must be some graphs from a wind station that will show that...

I am really dubious about his tweet were he claims at 1am that they only had 20 knots...

 

[chewi]

prehaps talulah better remove an innocent party profile

what does that mean?

 

[rib]

post 244 prehaps

 

[rib]

its been done now do 224

 

[chewi]

totally confused now .
who's talulah?

 

[Talulah]

its been done now do 224

I've deleted it but I don't know what the issue was. Best to act first. I'm assuming an innocent party had been brought into the discussion.

 

[rib]

i belive you had the wrong skipper going by an earlir post

 

[rib]

earlier

 

[rib]

just in case the t. .. s r about

 

[Iain C]

Fairly ironic that the chap's FB profile pic shows a trysail up (assuming it's the same person).

I could not see the BBC interview but it does seem an amazing chain of events. Is anyone else looking at that wheel and thinking that a Spanish windlass to a stern cleat, or a re-reeved genoa sheet would have probably pulled it to at least a semi-useable state. A spiders web of light line might have kept the damaged spokes in the hub Chuck a trysail up and at least the motion would have eased and they would have been able to make some kind of progress.

TBH I almost partly blame the RYA training machine. Reading the books, preparing for a heli-evac or taking a tow is handled in a similar way as a capsize drill or power-roll on a dinghy course. Where is it drilled into people that a chopper costs several thousand quid an hour to operate? Where does it say the statistics of surviving a chopper crash at sea and make reference to various oil rig fatalities? Where does it mention the Soloman Browne or show pictures of the deserted Penlee lifeboat station and grieving families? Perhaps people would THINK a bit more about setting off in such a totally stupid forecast if those facts were really rammed home. I just think that some people put SeaStart, the AA, and the RNLI in the same bracket.

My inland dinghy club operate a "black shape" policy. If that's flying, rescue will come and get you, but they are likely to be busy. Your boat is left where it is, and you can pop round with a broom to sweep it off the appropriate dam wall. Perhaps if the RN took over in these conditions and shelled the abandoned boat to sink it and prevent any further hazards, people might think twice.

I dare say I will get caught out in the future in my sailing career but to actually set out with an F10 forecast is nothing sort of astonishing. I'm not a fan of trial by forum, and I really hope the skipper comes on and says "Actually, the navtex spewed out a forecast from 2 weeks ago so I thought we were OK, everyone puked becasue of food poisoning from the night before, everyone was a battle hardened Fastnet racer and it was a group decision to go, the emergency tiller actually broke under the load, and the trysail came down just before the RNLI started filming, and by that time we were **** out of options" but it's not looking good...

 

[marklucas]

Not saying you're wrong

Sorry, I don't know if this is a troll, joke .... or serious.

With the right boat in the right place - ie with lots of sea-room to leeward - that might be the case. But in a typical boat, like the First 40.7 here and/or without many miles of sea-room this would be very unlikely to be even moderately realistic.
As another has said, only RNLI and rescue tugs should sensibly go to sea in F10 or above.

From my limited experience in such conditions I doubt if any modern sailing boat below 70ft or so would make any progress to windward off a lee shore, under sail or# engine or both. And there is zero margin for error or gear failure - or the stronger gusts (F11 or 12) a mean F10 implies.

Even in a BT Challenge boat with sheltering land to windward we had solid water regularly over the deckhouse, crew on the foredeck unable to hear instructions being shouted from the mast position (distance 30 ft), and extremely unpleasant below decks

Sorry but I cannot personally conceive of any situation where it would be safe to go out into a true F10 in coastal waters (ie outside a very sheltered river but without ocean searoom) in a sailing yacht.
But I may be wrong and inexperienced wimp as I lack any paper certificates, just 40 years making smaller mistakes (so far)

But I have deliberately gone out in F10 to gain the experience -however the situation was atypical -it was an YM prep week and we'd already endured F9 on the hook all night. OK it was only a short blast from Power Station Creek to Osbourne Bay and then Cowes but ....

we had our trysail and storm jib rigged,we practised MOB in Osbourne Bay in a F8 (and learnt that the engine can't counter the forward motion in a heave to approach - prop cavitates - so you have to sail it.)

This was a very conscious decision by all on board but clearly we were not an average crew and were in relatively sheltered waters (Lee on Solent was recording 50+knots all the time.

Berthing in East Cowes in only a F7 was also "interesting"!

I have since skippered when we became weather bound by only a F5-6 - but the Isles of Scilly with a big swell are not forgiving.

So as I say, it can be done, but only if very carefully considered, and only if all the crew are prepared, and as has been previously stated, PlansB, C (and D) are in place.

I have certainly valued the experience when in less challenging conditions.

Would I have sailed their passage - not on you Nelly!

 

[Pinnacle]

I have been out in a F10...

Only once and to be honest, we really didn't know it was coming*. We were in relatively open water with room to leeward.

Sitting in the cockpit required you to either hold the wheel ( if you were helming ) or put your arms around a winch becuase the boat movements were so violent. We were all clipped on. Down below was a really unpleasant place to be. It was an Oyster 37 yacht.


Would I go out in my boat knowing a F10 was forecast - no.


It is an experience that, on mature reflection, I can honestly say I am glad to have had........but have no wish to repeat.



* Fastnet 1979

 

[pendlecats]

I have been on a school boat and we poked our nose out in a F8 for some fun and experience, but as for a transit like this with F10 forecast I wouldn't have gone.

The school boat I was on does the same trip every year and are very careful with their planning (probably why we haven't heard about them ever having difficulties and I bet their either at the show now or waiting it out somewhere)

The Skippers daughter was with him it seems.

 

[photodog]

Well.....

whilst the forecast was for force 10.... if you look at the data... they dont appear to have had winds near that speed... http://weather.brightonmarina.com/d...11640&end=1325716440&disp_option=1&chart=wind

For most of the time from 1am to 8.30 or so they appear to have had winds circa 20-30 knots... according to the Brighton marina wind records....

Chimet records some speeds of up to 39 or so knots....

So in reality they were sailing in force 6/7 occasional 8 at worst.....

Top wind speeds were not recorded until nearer to mid day... by which time they had been in the care of the RNLI for a while... at 5am when they made the distress call they were experiencing 20-25 knots of wind... so F6.


I would still not go out in a forecast F10.... which they had... but they didnt actually get that weather...

 

[Poignard]

. . .
I could not see the BBC interview but it does seem an amazing chain of events. Is anyone else looking at that wheel and thinking that a Spanish windlass to a stern cleat, or a re-reeved genoa sheet would have probably pulled it to at least a semi-useable state. A spiders web of light line might have kept the damaged spokes in the hub Chuck a trysail up and at least the motion would have eased and they would have been able to make some kind of progress.. . .

Ingenious ideas, I dare say, but was there anyone on board in a fit state to do this who was not pre-occupied with other tasks?

Perhaps it's a mercy this foolish escapade came to a halt when it did, before someone lost his life. And if the boat had made it to London, imagine the hubris of the skipper, who might then have been free to continue risking people's lives.

 

[rib]

photodog.i now see you in a new better light,

 

[photodog]

Wot, a troll???