Helicopter Rescue off Dover

[awol]

Well.....

whilst the forecast was for force 10.... if you look at the data... they dont appear to have had winds near that speed... http://weather.brightonmarina.com/d...11640&end=1325716440&disp_option=1&chart=wind

I feel a little chastened. The 102mph measured in Edinburgh was about 0.25mile from my house and the wind had been howling all night and that day. I had presumed from the pictures on TV of devastation in the south that there had been a tad more than 20kts. I'm glad the skipper has been exonerated and his forecasting skills were greater than all the weather sites

 

[rib]

no you come across as a bit of an a- - e some times as i proberly do too.but aleast you found out more info and posted it, when not so long ago your were after blood

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Well.....

whilst the forecast was for force 10.... if you look at the data... they dont appear to have had winds near that speed... http://weather.brightonmarina.com/d...11640&end=1325716440&disp_option=1&chart=wind

For most of the time from 1am to 8.30 or so they appear to have had winds circa 20-30 knots... according to the Brighton marina wind records....

Chimet records some speeds of up to 39 or so knots....

So in reality they were sailing in force 6/7 occasional 8 at worst.....

Top wind speeds were not recorded until nearer to mid day... by which time they had been in the care of the RNLI for a while... at 5am when they made the distress call they were experiencing 20-25 knots of wind... so F6.


I would still not go out in a forecast F10.... which they had... but they didnt actually get that weather...

I think your information is rather irrelevant.

What was happening in Brighton Marina and out in the Channel would be quite different.
Brighton Marina data is assumed to be average not gust
Chimet shows gusts up to 48kts.
Chimet is to the east of the SOlent, not approaching the Dover Straits.

 

[Giblets]

Interesting to note from the skipper's Twitter entries that on the 28th December he commented that, having just checked the Met Office forecast, the trip to London on Monday would be "interesting"!

 

[photodog]

Well It doesnt change my basic position... but I thought seeing as we were all banging on about force 10... that we should actually see what the weather was like.... that video didnt look force 10 to me....

It doesnt change the basic facts though... he went out when one was forecast... and got into trouble... He shouldnt have set sail.

The surprise is that it took a lot less than a force 10 to get him into trouble... which kinda hammers home the point that this was a very big mistake...

 

[Poignard]

Interesting to note from the skipper's Twitter entries that on the 28th December he commented that, having just checked the Met Office forecast, the trip to London on Monday would be "interesting"!

There is a Chinese curse which says, 'May you live in interesting times'.

 

[topline]

Well It doesnt change my basic position... but I thought seeing as we were all banging on about force 10... that we should actually see what the weather was like.... that video didnt look force 10 to me....

It doesnt change the basic facts though... he went out when one was forecast... and got into trouble... He shouldnt have set sail.

The surprise is that it took a lot less than a force 10 to get him into trouble... which kinda hammers home the point that this was a very big mistake...

It doesn't look like a force 10? I can assure you the wind was blowing the sea flat!

 

[photodog]

I think your information is rather irrelevant.

What was happening in Brighton Marina and out in the Channel would be quite different.
Brighton Marina data is assumed to be average not gust
Chimet shows gusts up to 48kts.
Chimet is to the east of the SOlent, not approaching the Dover Straits.

Well chimet doesnt show 48 knots at the time in question...

I would sure like to see some info as to what the wind was in their area when they got into trouble...

Frankly it looks to me like they were in trouble a 1am with his twit about 3 crew down ill....

But I think it is relevent... We are all thinking that this cant happen to me..I wouldnt go out in a force 9/10....

But in reality it looks to me like we are talking more 7 or 8....

and thats a bit different!

I am not making a excuse...I would just like to see what the real conditions were like... as this is something I am sure the MAIB will be looking at...

 

[photodog]

It doesn't look like a force 10? I can assure you the wind was blowing the sea flat!

The RNLI crew were piloting the boat from the upper helm station... and the seas were no more than 2/3 meters.... That aint force 10.....

 

[pendlecats]

One key point is he was going fully expecting gale force winds to F10 and informed the crew as such.

I seem to remember from his tweet he indicated they may not go the whole way, however they did try, indicating maybe the F10 winds didn't materialise for them.

 

[rib]

oh well it will all come out in the wash,one thing thou if the winds were,nt that bad (if).an inexperianced crew could get frighten in a lively sea as opposed to a dangerous one which wont help him.any way ive just been in a f 9 my self this am single handed and im tired and going to bed,with a grin on my face u aint quite the org i thought

 

[photodog]

One key point is he was going fully expecting gale force winds to F10 and informed the crew as such.

I seem to remember from his tweet he indicated they may not go the whole way, however they did try, indicating maybe the F10 winds didn't materialise for them.

Well thats the point...



I would be interested to see the wind speeds at the Sandiette light bouy at say 5am....

I cant find that data though...

 

[Seven Spades]

Let's say you are sailing down wind in the English Channel and you are in a F10 and your main cover has ripped and is creating lots of windage. How easy is it to go beam on to the waves and wind when you turn to port to head for a safe haven?

My guess is it is probably easier to keep going until you hit Holland.

 

[Tintin]

i belive you had the wrong skipper going by an earlir post

I think you re wrong. If you look through his FB friends you find several Shurrocks, and if you look at the pictures he in on the Liquid site the person bears a remarkable resemblance. I think the borg" monicker is perhaps a left over from military days.

Or I could be completely wrong.

 

[maxi77]

I have been out at sea in that kind of storm condition, in the Bay, North West Approaches weel of from the shelp and in the Norwegian sea. None of them were that pleasant despite being in sizeable war canoes both black and grey. In 2 of the occasions we suffered damage, and I found none of them fun and certainly would not have contemplated going to sea in a yacht deliberately.

 

[Simondjuk]

When you apply to become an RYA Training Centre you agree to the following undertakings and conditions:-

10. Administration and Equipment
I undertake that while the above named training centre is recognised by the RYA:
(i)If the centre conducts activities afloat which fall outside the remit of RYA recognition, the centre will exercise all reasonable care and skill and conduct such activities in accordance with best practice and/or established national guidelines.

Even if this trip was not an RYA recognised course, the above should apply. Setting out into forecast F10 with a novice crew would be contrary to most people's notion of 'best practice'.

13. Publicity
The centre Principal undertakes that the centre will:
(d) Not do or omit to do anything which will or may damage the image and reputation of the RYA, RYA training or RYA qualifications or which may otherwise bring the RYA into disrepute.

A vessel belonging to a flag flying representative of the RYA setting out into a forecast F10 then, somewhat predictably in the circumstances, needing a heli rescue and two lifeboats could, and it seems quite clearly from some posts here, actually has been construed as harming the image and reputation of the RYA as the flag issuer.

16. Withdrawal of Recognition
The RYA may, at its absolute discretion grant or refuse recognition. If the RYA, in its reasonable opinion does not have confidence in a Recognised Centre’s management or ability to maintain standards it may withdraw recognition. The RYA may make such fact known by announcements in the yachting press and subsequently the Centre may not advertise or claim in any way that it is or has been awarded recognition by the RYA as an RYA Training Centre.

This one speaks for itself.

Hot Liquid in hot water?

 

[dt4134]

I am not making a excuse...I would just like to see what the real conditions were like... as this is something I am sure the MAIB will be looking at...

Does anybody know how to get the wind data from the Greenwich Light Vessel. This is the best I've found but it only has the last 24 hours. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=62305

 

[pendlecats]

I think you re wrong. If you look through his FB friends you find several Shurrocks, and if you look at the pictures he in on the Liquid site the person bears a remarkable resemblance. I think the borg" monicker is perhaps a left over from military days.

Or I could be completely wrong.

No your not wrong His daughter was with him.

 

[GlennG]

To summarise... going downwind in a big blow that's forecast to get worse; in a rising Channel chop; in a lightweight AWB with a thin fin keel; an unknown crew; towards the Dover Straight where the weather and sea is always worse; past Dover where it's a pig to sail at the best of times AND with the main up?

WTF?

Little wonder the crew were puking.

By the sounds of it [removed by admin]

 

[Robin]

Hey don't knock the boat, that is the one good bit, nothing much wrong with a First 40.7 and 'average' they ain't.