fireball
New member
Any chance of a link or even repost here?
Helicopter Rescue off Dover
- Thread starter Vara
- Start date
Any chance of a link or even repost here?
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
fireball
New member
Judders
Active member
Though I do not endorse ether position, there is a difference between people going out on their own boats and a company making a profit out of sending paying punters who put their trust in the firm out in dangerous conditions on a powerful boats that they can not handle. What really makes me sick is that the decisaion makers, the ones making a profit were not the ones taking the damn risk; they sell these cruises as safe whilst resting assured that thee and me will actually take on the financial cost of a rescue, other strangers will take the physical risk. Do Hot Liquid even own the boats? Most charter firms dont. As a rle they are making money out of other poeples safety and other peoples boats.
A1Sailor
...
See the HMCG website:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...s-releases.htm?id=B0BBA3A6EE66D677&m=1&y=2012
Press Notice No: 001-12
Tuesday, January 03, 2012
Posted 12:03 GMT
RESCUE UNITS CALLED TO YACHT OFF DEAL IN 50 KNOT WINDS
At 05.11 am, the skipper of a forty foot yacht made an urgency call reporting that they were having difficulty.
The yacht Liquid Vortex with seven crew on board, has five crew suffering with sea sickness and one crewman has sustained possible injury to his jaw and ribs after sustaining a fall on the yacht.
Dover Coastguard called out Coastguard rescue teams from Margate. RNLI lifeboats from Dungeness and Dover have been requested to launch and a rescue helicopter has also been requested.
The vessel is on passage from Southampton to London.
Spike Hughes, from Dover Coastguard said:
The skipper of the yacht called Dover Coastguard to request assistance after one of his crew had sustained possible injuries.
The weather conditions at this time are 50 knot winds and swells of 3-5 metres
Posted By: Fred Caygill
Does " at this time" mean 12.03GMT on Tuesday - or the time of the rescue?
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga07-ho...s-releases.htm?id=B0BBA3A6EE66D677&m=1&y=2012
Press Notice No: 001-12
Tuesday, January 03, 2012
Posted 12:03 GMT
RESCUE UNITS CALLED TO YACHT OFF DEAL IN 50 KNOT WINDS
At 05.11 am, the skipper of a forty foot yacht made an urgency call reporting that they were having difficulty.
The yacht Liquid Vortex with seven crew on board, has five crew suffering with sea sickness and one crewman has sustained possible injury to his jaw and ribs after sustaining a fall on the yacht.
Dover Coastguard called out Coastguard rescue teams from Margate. RNLI lifeboats from Dungeness and Dover have been requested to launch and a rescue helicopter has also been requested.
The vessel is on passage from Southampton to London.
Spike Hughes, from Dover Coastguard said:
The skipper of the yacht called Dover Coastguard to request assistance after one of his crew had sustained possible injuries.
The weather conditions at this time are 50 knot winds and swells of 3-5 metres
Posted By: Fred Caygill
Does " at this time" mean 12.03GMT on Tuesday - or the time of the rescue?
topline
New member
If you enter tuesdays date you can see the weather conditions for the day in question, readings taken from the end of Deal pier.
http://www.channelcoast.org/data_management/real_time_data/charts/?chart=90&tab=met&disp_option=
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Robin
Well-known member
I think your words that sum it up are prejudiced ideas. The 40.7 is not a typical Benny cruiser but a pretty mean Bruce Farr designed cruiser/racer. The world has moved on since the Co32 much as I like them.
October 29, 2001
Beneteau First 40.7
A Cruising World Boat of the Year with a racing package and an IMS rating that makes it more than competent on the racecourse.
by Peter Danjou
related tags:Sailboats | Review
The April sun and a warm southwesterly put a smile on Paul Neilsen’s face as we departed Falmouth, Mass., in his new Beneteau First 40.7 Tiberius. However, like any new owner, especially the new owner of a Cruising World Boat of the Year in the cruiser/racer category, Neilsen probably would’ve been smiling in a hailstorm.
Normally we might leave such a boat to Cruising World’s readers, but the 40.7 has also gained an international reputation as an IMS winner. In fact, two of the three boats on Australia’s Kenwood Cup team are 40.7s so we decided to take a closer look. The 40.7, designed by Farr Yacht Design Ltd., comes with only one interior configuration. The three-cabin layout has plenty of light, wood, and generous 6’5” headroom, and the nav station has a large chart table, comfortable seat, and plenty of storage.
The cruising disguise notwithstanding, it’s evident from the sleek deck design that Bruce Farr and his associates aimed to create a fast racing boat. Beneteau’s First Series race package for the boat includes a triple-spreader mast with hydraulic backstay and rod rigging, as well as a Tuff Luff headstay, standard spinnaker gear, Vectran halyards, folding prop, deep-draft 7’9” keel, and a Lewmar winch package. Its aluminum rig factors favorably under the dynamic allowance, a handicap adjustment the Offshore Racing Council introduced in 1996 to allow cruising-oriented designs to compete under IMS.
We hoisted the new 145-percent genoa and the large Dacron main as we exited the harbor and headed for Vineyard Sound. We tacked upwind while sailmaker Bill Fortenberry made some rig adjustments, allowing us to flatten the main and tighten the headstay. The boat felt powerful and steady, but in the building 15-knot breeze with its 892-sq. ft. of sail, the boat has more horsepower than the average cruiser might require. With the right combination of sail, rig adjustments, and rail meat you could top the 7.3 knots we attained in the freshening wind. The boat has a definite groove, which wasn’t hard to find.
The 40.7 had little turbulence in its wake, and with a displacement over 15,000 pounds, the boat cut easily through the small chop. Upwind, with Beneteau’s internal grid construction, the boat seems rigid enough to power through much rougher conditions. Sight lines from the helm are good. The large steering wheel is mounted on a pedestal designed to double as a footbrace if you choose to sit outboard, straddling the helm. The owner mounted the instrument displays on the pedestal, but they were hard to read if you stood to steer. It would be easy to mount displays on the mast so they’d be visible to all.
The removable seats in the cockpit is a nice feature—these provide comfortable bench seating and stowage while cruising but allow stand-up access to winches and more elbowroom when removed for racing. When the seats are removed, cockpit sole footpads for the main trimmer to brace against are exposed.
The European-style split mainsheet system runs from the elevated Lewmar traveler, situated in front of the steering pedestal, along the boom to the gooseneck, and then back along the deck to secondary winches. These were mounted on the cockpit coaming in front of the traveler, and like the traveler controls, they’re in easy reach.
We turned for home, doused the genoa, and reattached the roller furler used for cruising. While we were rigging this, we reached at almost seven knots under main alone, and when we finally set the 105-percent roller jib, the speed picked up to over 8 knots in 18 knots true. We can’t vouch that the new instruments were calibrated correctly, but our GPS confirmed they were close.
Finally, we raised the spinnaker, and our speed increased to 10 knots with the wind on the quarter. We didn’t expect the boat to plane at this speed or angle downwind, but, again, there is plenty of horsepower.
The term cruiser/racer usually means the boat has traded speed for comfort. In the racing configuration, however, we found the boat more powerful than some cruisers might want but on target for a race-oriented sailor. With over 235 boats already built worldwide and more on order, the market seems to have found plenty to like.
The price seems as comfortable as the interior. We estimate that the sail-away, race-ready price, including basic electronics, to be $200,000. The simple rig with no runners gives the boat a favorable handicap in IMS racing. The interior will please the entire family, and its 54-second/mile PHRF rating could make it a great boat for you sea-wolves looking to disguise your intentions of dining on the club racing circuit.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Thanks Topline!
So it was steady around 30 knots with gusts to 40 at the time of distress...
Not force 10...
7 Gusting to 8
Later at around 10 ish it got 8 Gusting to 10......
So they were in a force 7 when then declared a distress.... and it had been more 6 before that..
fireball
New member
Deal Pier looks to be naturally sheltered from winds with any West in it ...
If you look at the wind strength then the associated directions with a swing of up to 200° ... so I wouldn't take that as wind strength in the channel ...
If you look at the wind strength then the associated directions with a swing of up to 200° ... so I wouldn't take that as wind strength in the channel ...
Elemental
Well-known member
I'm not sure that necessarily holds. How far offshore was the yacht when they were first distressed? The wind could have been quite a lot stronger a few miles offshore. The crew member who posted on here stated that they were in trouble long before they called the LB so you'd need to know more before declaring that they didn't encounter storm conditions.
Judders
Active member
Sorry Robin, but they're ****.
However, it wouldn't matter what boat you were out in. In those conditions, having say a Prima 38, Elan 410 or even an Arcona 400 would not have improved the position.
Now whether a more traditional design would have been less wearing on the crew or not is a fascinating question but a bit off topic.
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ValleyForge
Member
Having just read through most of the threads I can't believe someone would set off into a Force 10 gale in a stock boat & inexperienced crew. I guess having a background in the insurance industry makes one rather risk aware, but really. Morning Cloud 3, a strongly built offshore racer with a well experienced & disciplined crew sadly succumbed in a September gale rather less than this one as those with longer memories than some may recall..
Where was the plan B ? If the skipper had succumbed to accident then by all accounts we may have had a very different & tragic outcome. Read Adlard Coles book on heavy weather sailing - steering packs up / bilge pump clogs / engine fails / structures fail in extreme conditions so not a surprise surely ?
Big praise to the RNLI though, a magnificent job.
end of coffee break !
Where was the plan B ? If the skipper had succumbed to accident then by all accounts we may have had a very different & tragic outcome. Read Adlard Coles book on heavy weather sailing - steering packs up / bilge pump clogs / engine fails / structures fail in extreme conditions so not a surprise surely ?
Big praise to the RNLI though, a magnificent job.
end of coffee break !
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
It would be good to see what the weather was like at Sandiette through the period 1am to 8am on the 3rd...
But his tweet said it was 20 knots at 1am...
And that correlates pretty well with Chimet, Brighton and Deal.....
But his tweet said it was 20 knots at 1am...
And that correlates pretty well with Chimet, Brighton and Deal.....
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Read that review yesterday, 2nd to last para reads....The term cruiser/racer usually means the boat has traded speed for comfort. In the racing configuration, however, WE FOUND THE BOAT MORE POWERFUL THAN SOME CRUISERS MIGHT WANT but on target for a race-oriented sailor. With over 235 boats already built worldwide and more on order, the market seems to have found plenty to like.
So a trysail set instead of main might have been nice in 40kn plus with weak crew, esp once frightened and seasick. Early on.
I reckon this mob are toast, period, notwithstanding any heroic efforts the skipper may have made once out there.
So a trysail set instead of main might have been nice in 40kn plus with weak crew, esp once frightened and seasick. Early on.
I reckon this mob are toast, period, notwithstanding any heroic efforts the skipper may have made once out there.
Boomshanka
New member
I think trying to establish what the wind strength was at the time of the call is missing the point... the skipper recognises the forecast of a potential F10 prior to departure (via Twitter). For anyone who has sailed that part of the coast, they'll know that options for getting out of trouble are limited... the option of taking the sleighride up and past Dover then presents the variably shifting Goodwin Sands and/or shipping lanes (take your pick). Conditions by all accounts were grim, leaving only two functioning crew onboard, the boat disabled, crew member with (serious?) injuries. Maybe they should be thankful they were out of harms way *before* the worst of the blow came through... if they hadn't have been pooped then it seems likely they would have experienced ever-increasing wind... by which time Dover (with all of their commercial pressures) was completely closed.
From Dover's website:
"The port shall close to all shipping movements when the sustained wind speed within the harbour exceeds 55 knots from these directions, that is violent storm, force 11. Prior to such a general port closure all scheduled operators, agents and the masters of vessels immediately affected shall be consulted and an assessment made in conjunction with them which shall take full account of the prevailing circumstances."
From the RNLI report: "Neither lifeboat were allowed into Dover harbour via the western entrance, because Dover Port Control had closed it due to the weather." They couldn't use the Eastern entrance due to the conditions... Dover then closed completely between noon and 14:00 on 4th Jan.
Further from the RNLI: "It was blowing Storm Force 11 at the time, so one can only imagine how it felt for those onboard the training vessel."
I feel very sorry for the many decent and excellent skippers at HL who might be affected by this event... I've sailed on many occasions with them and hold two skippers in particular in very high regard. I struggle to think that they would have made the same call, but who knows?
From Dover's website:
"The port shall close to all shipping movements when the sustained wind speed within the harbour exceeds 55 knots from these directions, that is violent storm, force 11. Prior to such a general port closure all scheduled operators, agents and the masters of vessels immediately affected shall be consulted and an assessment made in conjunction with them which shall take full account of the prevailing circumstances."
From the RNLI report: "Neither lifeboat were allowed into Dover harbour via the western entrance, because Dover Port Control had closed it due to the weather." They couldn't use the Eastern entrance due to the conditions... Dover then closed completely between noon and 14:00 on 4th Jan.
Further from the RNLI: "It was blowing Storm Force 11 at the time, so one can only imagine how it felt for those onboard the training vessel."
I feel very sorry for the many decent and excellent skippers at HL who might be affected by this event... I've sailed on many occasions with them and hold two skippers in particular in very high regard. I struggle to think that they would have made the same call, but who knows?
Judders
Active member
At the end of the day, yacht reviews are unreliable because so many are skewed by the advertising spends of the builders. Some journalists I trust but they dont get published anymore.
I sailed 13 different designs last year and the worst two were the First 40.7 and the First 40.
For balance the Benneteau Oceanis 50 was one of the better ones so I hope I am not particulalry antin-Bendy-toy.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Maybe he was pooped by a so called rogue wave and prior to that the boat was under control even with a seasick crew. The Clyde is not exactly Cape Horn, but I have been hit by some big stoppers beating into a F8 up Loch Fyne that were head and shoulders above the rest. WTF did they come from? (rhetorical question).
I have sailed with sea sick crew and we still managed to work the boat, albeit miserably.
I don't know this area, but it does have a reputation for being bumpy and fast tides, so a bigger wave powering in, steep sided, may be a reasonable event. The stern wave can induce running seas to break.
So, the companies previous incidents may not be relevant or a reflexion on the skippers attitude and he was just unlucky.
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D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Well that rather kibosh's the rogue wave position I posted above, in light of PhotDogs wind recording posts.
neale
Active member
I think that Brighton weather station is probably quite sheltered. If you look at your site is says that at 21:00 yesterday they had 20 knots of wind from WSW. If you look at Greenwich lightship at the same time they had 42.9 Knots WSW. At 22.00 Brighton reports 28.7, Greenwich reports 44.1.
Unfortunately, I cannot see Greenwich data from the time in question, does anyone know where it might be stored? I suspect the conditions at Greenwich are more like the conditions experienced on board.
Today there have been average winds up to 50 knots and 17 ft waves
macd
Active member
Maybe that's what his instruments told him, but he was going downwind.