Helicopter Rescue off Dover

[Genoa]

I might have done some things in my time ( mid channel in August '79 etc), which caused many greying hairs. But going out in THAT (see link) would not be one of them, especially off an exposed coast with NO real options for cover along that coast in a strong SWerly. No one that has the technology to tweet whilst sailing can claim ignorance to a forecast as it develops.

.

It probably tells it's own story...
http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/cgi-...OD=&PANEL=1&ARCHIV=0&BASE=201201021800&HH=114

 

[Judders]

A response from the manager of Hot Liquid on YBW front page!

http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/530521/hot-liquid-responds-to-rescue

 

[Judders]

Hot Liquid Statement

Here it is...

Following the news release issued by the RNLI Dungeness Lifeboat Station in relation to the rescue of the crew of a Hot Liquid Sailing training vessel, Liquid Vortex, in the early hours of Tuesday January 3rd, and the subsequent publication of press reports about this story, the following statement has today been issued by Hot Liquid Sailing's Managing Director, Jason Manning.

"On behalf of Hot Liquid Sailing and the skipper and crew of Liquid Vortex, I would first like to express our thanks and gratitude to the RNLI for their assistance.

"For the sake of absolute clarity and balanced reporting, I do however also wish to take this opportunity to outline all the facts of the situation that led to the rescue. Here follows relevant excerpts from the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) Report:

[YW understands that the following is NOT part of an MAIB report but that the MAIB is conducting preliminary enquiries]

"Liquid Vortex and her crew set off from Shamrock Quay at 14:30 on Monday the 2nd of January bound for Ramsgate. The passage plan was to arrive at Ramsgate at approximately lunchtime on Tuesday the 3rd of January, weather conditions allowing, with possible safe havens of; Brighton, Eastbourne or Dover on route.

"Given the weather forecast prior to departure (West / Southwest Force 5/7 possibly Force 10 later), visiting one of these safe havens was becoming likely. The updated weather forecast at 19:30 remained the same.

"Liquid Vortex and her crew continued to sail along the South Coast during the day in winds of 20+ knots with gusts reaching Force 7 into the early hours of Tuesday morning. The sea state was increasing during the first few hours of Tuesday morning and whilst sailing past Dungeness the wind rapidly increased and sea state worsened. This caused four of the crew to suffer from sea sickness remaining below decks and no longer able to stand watch.

"Shortly after 04:00 Dover Coastguard announced an updated weather forecast that a Force 11 was imminent so an immediate decision was made by the skipper to head towards Dover for shelter. Soon after the wind started reaching Force 8 and the yacht was becoming more difficult to control so the decision was made to drop the headsail and motor towards Dover which at this point was less than 2 hours away.

"At 05:00 - 05:30, the skipper sent a Pan Pan message to Dover Coastguard as a safety precaution so that they were aware of his location and intentions. Dover Coastguard called the RNLI Lifeboat to escort the yacht into Dover.

"Shortly after the Lifeboat met Liquid Vortex she was hit by a large wave from astern. This caused the helmsman to fall against the wheel and subsequently bend the wheel which prevented further steering. The helmsman went below suffering an injured jaw and damaged ribs.

"Due to the lack of steering capability the Lifeboat secured a tow to Liquid Vortex with the intention of towing to Dover. Unfortunately, due to the yacht slewing with the given sea state and lack of helming capabilities, the tow line chaffed and snapped. A second tow line was rigged with the same outcome. The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht.

"The skipper along with a lifeboat crewman managed to straighten the wheel which allowed the skipper to helm and motor the yacht under her own power.

"A rescue helicopter was sent to evacuate the injured crewman. The decision was made whilst the helicopter was with yacht to also evacuate the three other crew who were feeling seasick. The four evacuated crew flew to the local hospital in Ramsgate and were subsequently released soon after. Fortunately the injured helmsman hadn't suffered any serious injury but had a bruised jaw and ribs.

"The RNLI Lifeboat then secured a final tow to assist Liquid Vortex into Ramsgate Harbour due to deteriorating weather now reaching Force 10/11 where she berthed under her own power."

Given the press coverage and some very negative comments on social media and in forums etc that surround this rescue, Jason Manning also feels it important to highlight that all six crew were paying individuals gaining further yachting experience and all were existing Hot Liquid sea school students and all had an RYA qualification; there were no novices on board.

The crew as a unit was extensively briefed in the use of heavy weather sails in the event that they may need them and practiced the ‘Man Overboard Procedure' prior to leaving the Solent.

The Yacht:
A Beneteau First 40.7, one of the UK's most popular offshore racing yachts and
a very capable yacht for the journey. Safety equipment onboard exceed MCA requirements for commercial vessels. As per usual, the skipper thoroughly went through the yacht's inventory and checked all safety equipment shortly before departure.

The Skipper:
The skipper is a Commercially Endorsed RYA Yachtmaster Instructor (the highest level of qualification issued by the RYA).

The Weather:
The forecast for the area that they were sailing was expected to reach gale force winds "Later" which means 12 to 24 hours from the time of issue from the Met Office. This forecast remained in place during the voyage.

The yacht did not call the services of the RNLI. However as they were alongside when the steerage was temporarily lost due to the helmsman falling against the wheel, it was wise to take advantage of their services.

The yacht was able to continue under sail or power at all times during the voyage.
A temporary loss of steerage was easily and quickly rectified by simply bending the wheel back to its original position.

Excluding the bent wheel, all damage to the yacht was caused by the Lifeboat coming alongside to drop off a crewman.

The MAIB and RYA have been informed of the incident and continue their investigations with the full co-operation of Hot Liquid Sailing.

 

[Juan Twothree]

http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/530521/hot-liquid-responds-to-rescue

"The yacht did not call the services of the RNLI. However as they were alongside when the steerage was temporarily lost due to the helmsman falling against the wheel, it was wise to take advantage of their services"

 

[rib]

well its all came out in the wash.no hanging today.NEXT

 

[fireball]

A response from the manager of Hot Liquid on YBW front page!

all six crew were paying individuals gaining further yachting experience and all were existing Hot Liquid sea school students and all had an RYA qualification; there were no novices on board.

Day Skipper is a "Certificate of Competence" ... rather than Qualification ... so did all the crew have "Qualifications" or Certificates of Competence?

The Weather:
The forecast for the area that they were sailing was expected to reach gale force winds "Later" which means 12 to 24 hours from the time of issue from the Met Office. This forecast remained in place during the voyage.

8 is Gale force - is such a trip prudent to undertake given the forecast ... perhaps the skipper put too much faith in the accuracy of a forecast?

Shortly after 04:00 Dover Coastguard announced an updated weather forecast that a Force 11 was imminent so an immediate decision was made by the skipper to head towards Dover for shelter. Soon after the wind started reaching Force 8 and the yacht was becoming more difficult to control so the decision was made to drop the headsail and motor towards Dover which at this point was less than 2 hours away.

Just reading into this - so a lot of conjecture ... dropping headsail and motoring towards Dover suggests that they had PASSED Dover ...
Given that the previous evenings forecast was for Gales "Later" being 12-24hrs that would suggest they had a 3hour window at max before the Gales set in ... in the dark ... in worsening conditions ...

"At 05:00 - 05:30, the skipper sent a Pan Pan message to Dover Coastguard as a safety precaution so that they were aware of his location and intentions. Dover Coastguard called the RNLI Lifeboat to escort the yacht into Dover.

A sensible decision ... apparently after the RNLI lifeboat got there they bust the wheel ...

"The RNLI Lifeboat then secured a final tow to assist Liquid Vortex into Ramsgate Harbour due to deteriorating weather now reaching Force 10/11 where she berthed under her own power."

Ok - they faffed about with a tow and had to deal with the bust wheel ... but this does read like stories of tight timescales and a risk taking Skipper ..

Given the press coverage and some very negative comments on social media and in forums etc that surround this rescue

Hardly surprising is it? thats 3? major rescues in 12 months all around the same area by a supposed reputable company ...

Jason Manning - please stop your company and skippers from playing with the lives of others - both the paying crew and the volunteers who will always risk their lives to save others.

I stand by my view that they should NOT have been there in the first place. The reason for that is that forecasts are just that - forecasts - they are not accurate to the hour.

 

[FishyInverness]

Taken from the RNLI Dungeness station report, from here

"The crew were requested to launch by Dover Coastguard shortly after 5.30am today (3 January) after a distress signal from a sailing training vessel, 'Liquid Vortex'. Her crew were reporting broken steering and other difficulties in bad weather, giving their position as three miles off Dungeness Point."

Says that the distress call made from the vessel was already reporting broken steering when the "pan pan" call was made...

 

[Downsman]

That aint what one of the rescued ladies is squawking to our local paper..paid £225 and ended up dangling from a 'copter "We thought we were all going to die"... she's not a happy bunny...

 

[rib]

would,nt be the first time rnli went out to assist,good training prehaps/thay saw aproblem coming

 

[Iain C]

Well, it reads slightly better than the original "engines had failed and could not steer", however at the end of the day they still set off with the words "Force 10 later" in their area forecast. I guess they thought in a 40.7 they would be able to outrun it, and lost that gamble, big time.

As has been pointed out they knew there was a chance of a F10, but started started to lose the game in a F7. Not good.

Still not quite sure why a Pan-Pan was put out though if they were planning to continue under their own steam. I got caught out once in a right snotter and lost the engine too off Selsey Bill. One crew member was incapacited, and sure, I let the CG know where we are (my theory being without the engine, if I lost the rig I was a drifter, with significantly less range on my VHF to put a call out) and they just asked me to call every hour with a fix until we made it back home.

Personally, I do hope lessons get learnt and all involved continue with thier sailing careers, aspirations and businesses.

 

[fireball]

Says that the distress call made from the vessel was already reporting broken steering when the "pan pan" call was made...

Well - would you TRUST Hot Liquid?
Thats a second Yachtmaster Instructor who I wouldn't let on my tender - let alone be in charge of it ! (The first took a Dayskipper theory course - and his views were frightening!! Fortunately subsequent Instructors - both practical and theory - have been 100 times better... !)

I'm sure HL have some extremely competent skippers on their books - but IMHO - this skipper isn't one of them.

 

[Blueboatman]

The inescapable, to me, is that the boat was uncontrollable under reduced sail.
So is it in fact a suitable winter cruiser?
I 'suppose' that, despite a rising wind and sea and significant breaking waves over the transom, they could have motored happily to Ramsgate( Dover being shut now).
After all , they were fresh out of other options by then.

Max Clifford anyone?

 

[marina95]

would,nt be the first time rnli went out to assist,good training prehaps/thay saw aproblem coming

I should think they've got a set of alerts set up in their AIS that when a boat from Hot Liquid is coming in their direction all sorts of alarms start going off!!

 

[fireball]

"Due to the lack of steering capability the Lifeboat secured a tow to Liquid Vortex with the intention of towing to Dover. Unfortunately, due to the yacht slewing with the given sea state and lack of helming capabilities, the tow line chaffed and snapped. A second tow line was rigged with the same outcome. The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht.

The yacht was able to continue under sail or power at all times during the voyage.
A temporary loss of steerage was easily and quickly rectified by simply bending the wheel back to its original position.

The report has been changed - including the second quote - suggesting that the bent wheel was only a temporary issue and "quickly rectified" ... then why is it reported that the second tow chaffed and snapped ... because they wouldn't be slewing about as the wheel was so "easily and quickly rectified"

Excluding the bent wheel, all damage to the yacht was caused by the Lifeboat coming alongside to drop off a crewman.

er ..

third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht

So the bow cleat wasn't damaged - or was damaged but isn't considered part of the yacht?
Come on ... can we have constancy and clarity - the story reported reads like a thread on here!!

 

[Juan Twothree]

would,nt be the first time rnli went out to assist,good training prehaps/thay saw aproblem coming

But they wouldn't go out on a whim in those sort of conditions, and certainly not at 0530!

They launched because Dover CG, having received a Pan Pan, requested them to do so.

 

[Vara]

Just read Hot Liquids response and reviewed the various press releases and media.

There are many conflicts, which in an incident like this is not a surprise.

No doubt the involvement of the MAIB, will eventually shed light on what actually happened and the relevant authorities will take the appropriate action.

I personally would not have taken a boat on that trip given the forecasts that were in force at the time of sailing.

 

[photodog]

Hot Liquid's response is premature. I suspect based on the initial interview with the skipper.

But they are admitting a couple of things..

1) They only had one instructor on board.
2) There was a force 10 in the forecast.



Their response has been rushed out... they should have put out a holding statement. As a consequence they have already said a couple of things which they shouldnt have..

1) They said everyone had qualifications... not true, as we know that one is a DS...
2) They said that the boat was managable at all times... dubious as it clashes with the events of the tow... and the Coastguard report.

Not good damage control.. They have decided to stick with the skipper.


Its extaordinary really... they are attempting to defend the indefensible..... The facts are simple... they went out with a force 10 in the forecast... and ended up with 4 people being winched to safety and the RNLI sending out two lifeboats...

Any attempt to downplay the seriousness is a mistake PR wise.

 

[npf1]

Report from the Argus:

"Video: Storm terror sailor ‘lucky to be alive’

12:30pm Thursday 5th January 2012

By Anna Roberts

A sailor feared she would drown when a yacht got caught in storm force winds.

Veronica Bower-Feek had to be winched to safety by an RAF helicopter after the yacht was damaged during “horrendous” conditions off the south coast.

The 50-year-old from Newhaven was one of six crew on the sailing training vessel that was supposed to be on an enjoyable four-day cruise from Southampton to the London Boat Show.

But it ended with six people being injured or suffering severe sickness including hypothermia.

At one stage she said a “tsunami-like wave” struck the vessel and wiped out the boat’s steering.

Yesterday (January 4) Ms Bower-Feek was recovering at her home in Newhaven.

She said: “It was horrific. I was winched off along with three others.

"The boat’s crew was eventually winched to safety.”

The trip was organised by the Southampton-based company Hot Liquid Sailing and each crew member paid £225 to take part.

Ms Bower-Feek criticised the company for allowing the sail to go ahead despite the predicted storms.

Yesterday no one from the company was available for comment.

Ms Bower-Feek said going out on Monday, despite the bad forecast, was an unnecessary risk.

Ms Bower-Feek, who owns her own yacht at Brighton Marina, said she banged her head on a cabinet as she was speaking to the coastguard over the radio and was struck down by severe seasickness.

She said: "We all thought we were going to die.

“It was absolutely terrifying right to the last moment. We are very lucky to be alive.”

The difficult rescue mission, which cost thousands of pounds, was launched at about 5.30am on Tuesday, January 3 following a distress signal from the vessel when the crew were three miles off the Kent coast.

Dungeness and Dover lifeboats were launched but the treacherous conditions made it difficult for crew to board the stricken vessel and a towline snapped three times."


So the above 50 year old paying guest owns her own yacht, yet she still decided to go on this trip despite the forecast.

Edit - apparently her yacht is a mere 47ft, so one would have thought she's an experienced skipper herself.

 

[eagleswing]

duh ??

this threads remind me (1)not to buy a bavaria or (2)charter with hot liquid....
per HL's response to MAIB:
“Shortly after 04:00 Dover Coastguard announced an updated weather forecast that a Force 11 was imminent so an immediate decision was made by the skipper to head towards Dover for shelter. Soon after the wind started reaching Force 8 and the yacht was becoming more difficult to control so the decision was made to drop the headsail and motor towards Dover which at this point was less than 2 hours away.

“At 05:00 – 05:30, the skipper sent a Pan Pan message to Dover Coastguard as a safety precaution so that they were aware of his location and intentions. Dover Coastguard called the RNLI Lifeboat to escort the yacht into Dover.

“Shortly after the Lifeboat met Liquid Vortex she was hit by a large wave from astern. This caused the helmsman to fall against the wheel and subsequently bend the wheel which prevented further steering. The helmsman went below suffering an injured jaw and damaged ribs. ..'
--DUH ? NO EMERGENCY STEER CAPABILITY ON BAVARIAS??NO PROPER WRENCH TO TAKE OFF KEY/NUT HOLDING BENT WHEEL ON ?NO TOOLS TO ATTACH EMERGENCY TILLER??WHERE'S THE SKIPPER IN ALL THIS ?
“....Due to the lack of steering capability the Lifeboat secured a tow to Liquid Vortex with the intention of towing to Dover. ."
“...The skipper along with a lifeboat crewman managed to straighten the wheel which allowed the skipper to helm and motor the yacht under her own power...""
--can't 3 seasick crew have helped a skipper to straighten this wheel , even between vomits, and before calling in the tow??? this skipper doesnt seem to be the sharpest knife in the drawer..

..'Unfortunately, due to the yacht slewing with the given sea state and lack of helming capabilities, the tow line chaffed and snapped. A second tow line was rigged with the same outcome. The RNLI passed dedicated bridal lines to secure a third tow; unfortunately this tow failed by pulling a bow cleat from the yacht...'
-- DUH? BOW CLEATS NOT PROPERLY DESIGNED AND/or BACKED TO TAKE MAXIMUM TOWLOAD WITHOUT PULLING CLEAT THRU THE DECK ??

final diagnosis: perhaps it is fortunate that this bavaria 'first 40.7 never made it to the boat show... but HL is still advert'ing its capacity to help you with the coastal skipper ticket?? i think i'll pass.....

 

[fireball]

So the above 50 year old paying guest owns her own yacht, yet she still decided to go on this trip despite the forecast.

Hmm ... yes - my view too ... unless she thought they'd be putting into Brighton or Eastbourne prior to the wind picking up ... still a bit dodgy though ...