Got the new DEKPA today in Preveza

[Chris_Robb]

Well we got our new dekpa in Preveza this morning. One (1) hour from start to finish. All in all a not unpleasant experience BUT beware! If you don't get your second stamp within one year exactly, ie same date next year, the whole process has to be redone. Even one day over means you must start again.
I just love Greece!

JanZ

Thanks for that. The exact date is one of the problems we are trying (like savaging a dead sheep) to take up with the Greeks. It is qute iniquitous. In theory if you are several months late - say you are ill - then there will be fines as well.

 

[Flica]

Chris , I can't see how this would be the cast ,
WHY? The new DEKPA
The first two pages are 10 boxes all for owners and skipper details
Next page user details ( 4 boxes )
Next two pages 8 boxes for arrival and departure
The next two pages looks like more info on the user including embarkation and disembarking .
Which leave one page with five boxes for yearly stamp .
Where are they going to put a monthly stamp . If they where to use the five boxes that would mean the DEKPA would have to be renew every five months

There are 2 blank pages at the end - room for some stamps there.
Mine (entry stamp for 10th May) was put "in attestation of Port Authorities" - of which there are 16 boxes. This suggests to me that the DEKPA is good for 8 months only - L side being arrival R departure.
However, I suspect the monthly stamp is a temporary arrangement until the annual tax payment takes place and that annual payment will be collected later this year.
That joins up, laboriously, the dots which we have been given so far.
OR we need 2 DEKPAs for every 12 months of cruising Greek waters.

Much better than an Agatha Chrtistie who dunnit!!!

 

[macd]

Flica:
There are simpler dots to join up:
the suggestion of a monthly stamp seems to come from a single port in Greece;
so does the incontrovertible proof (because it has actually happened) that all that's needed by way of sailing qualifications is a UK driving licence.

Both propositions belong in the same dustbin.

The CA rep trying to make sense of this has had repeated dialogues with the Ministry of Shipping about the issue of stamping. Not once has it been suggested that this should be monthly.
(That would be the same CA rep who suggested your previous similar contribution would be best ignored.)

 

[Flica]

Flica:
There are simpler dots to join up:
the suggestion of a monthly stamp seems to come from a single port in Greece;
so does the incontrovertible proof (because it has actually happened) that all that's needed by way of sailing qualifications is a UK driving licence.

Both propositions belong in the same dustbin.

The CA rep trying to make sense of this has had repeated dialogues with the Ministry of Shipping about the issue of stamping. Not once has it been suggested that this should be monthly.
(That would be the same CA rep who suggested your previous similar contribution would be best ignored.)

several inaccuracies in your observations - I have neither the time or need to argue with you.
I merely observe what I have seen - there are none as blind as those who won't see!!

 

[macd]

several inaccuracies in your observations - I have neither the time or need to argue with you.

So your evidence for mandatory monthly stamping (which isn't even on this thread), is a person of unknown qualification who happens to be the grandson of a resistance hero and is good at running. If you're intent on rabble-rousing on an issue of keen importance to many, you're going to have to do better than that.

 

[sailaboutvic]

There are 2 blank pages at the end - room for some stamps there.
Mine (entry stamp for 10th May) was put "in attestation of Port Authorities" - of which there are 16 boxes. This suggests to me that the DEKPA is good for 8 months only - L side being arrival R departure.
However, I suspect the monthly stamp is a temporary arrangement until the annual tax payment takes place and that annual payment will be collected later this year.
That joins up, laboriously, the dots which we have been given so far.
OR we need 2 DEKPAs for every 12 months of cruising Greek waters.

Much better than an Agatha Chrtistie who dunnit!!!

The 2 blank pages are just that , two black pages , I be very happy to make a wager that there be no payment collected later this year regarding tax , not that I haveanyinside information another then over 20 years sailing in these parts and knowing how very well how long it takes the Greek to do anything .

 

[Chris_Robb]

The 2 blank pages are just that , two black pages , I be very happy to make a wager that there be no payment collected later this year regarding tax , not that I haveanyinside information another then over 20 years sailing in these parts and knowing how very well how long it takes the Greek to do anything .

Re the yacht duty (it's not described as a tax)
My bet is that there is an argument going on like last time when port police refused to get involved in collecting the tax as did all the marinas.
Let's hope that this will scupper the tax again.

 

[ZigZaging]

Quick update, French boat next to us this morning went to Preveza to buy their DEKPA only to be told no forms left - go away!

 

[JonJon]

Quick update, French boat next to us this morning went to Preveza to buy their DEKPA only to be told no forms left - go away!

Obviously that should now go to Gouvia marina!

 

[JanZ]

Not only Preveza- Lefkas have run out, as have Nidri, who are (unusually) doing them this year, but friends who tried there were told to go away because "I don't speak English".....��

 

[Carmel2]

Are they handing out sick notes?

 

[Tony Cross]

Are they handing out sick notes?

No, but you can get a 'rain check'....

 

[Carmel2]

Had enough rain thank you muchly. Has the crew list gone? I only ask as it was not asked for when we got our DEKPA sorted.

 

[Tony Cross]

Had enough rain thank you muchly. Has the crew list gone? I only ask as it was not asked for when we got our DEKPA sorted.

Yes. And look....the Sun is out! Oh wait....

 

[Mr Cassandra]

A France yacht came into our yard last night complaining that they had been fined 5000euro for something wrong with their DeKPa paper work. I will try to find out more later and correctly inform all, if true.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

It appears to be true. The yacht was Assures 44 with drop keel .The owner got into difficulties and had to phone Coast guard for assistance when rescue boat brought the boat into Aegina the police asked for papers and found that the DEkPa had not been stamped for five years and possible no insurance.?
As most here will know if you make a call for assistance your boat has to be inspected by The registry of shipping Boat now impounded in Kanonis yard Aegina.

 

[Tony Cross]

It appears to be true. The yacht was Assures 44 with drop keel .The owner got into difficulties and had to phone Coast guard for assistance when rescue boat brought the boat into Aegina the police asked for papers and found that the DEkPa had not been stamped for five years and possible no insurance.?
As most here will know if you make a call for assistance your boat has to be inspected by The registry of shipping Boat now impounded in Kanonis yard Aegina.

That sounds reasonable. Unfortunate but reasonable. It highlights a point I've made elsewhere on here about yacht papers in general (and the DEKPA in particular). You can get away for years without having the proper documentation, but if something happens and your papers are not up to date you just give them ammunition with which to shoot you. As in this sad case it would seem.

In Greece avoid issuing a pan-pan or being towed into a harbour unless there is no alternative. Any of these will require the local port police to impound the boat pending a seaworthiness survey by a Greek registered surveyor. Their argument is that they want to be sure the boat is seaworthy before they let you put to sea again so that you are not a drain on their search and rescue facilities. The CA has complained about this practice and the Greek Ministry of Shipping's reaction was that were they to stop doing this they would instead require that all boats were surveyed on entering Greece. The logic is hard to argue with. However the 'survey' is often cursory and yet expensive, I have heard of one boat owner being charged 600 Euros for such a survey and the 'surveyor' didn't even step aboard the boat. When this happened to me a few years ago we were lucky to get away with 200 Euros for the surveyor who was on board for all of five minutes and spent most of that time telling me what a lovely boat she was.

In addition, the port police are required to make a report on the circumstances and submit this to the public prosecutor to see whether a charge of 'causing a shipwreck' should be made against the skipper. The Greek legal system moves painfully slowly so it can be as many as six years later (or more now) before you are charged. I'm still waiting to see whether I will be prosecuted for my event four years ago. A CA member was prosecuted for issuing a pan-pan after striking an unmarked underwater rock which he thought had damaged his steering (it hadn't as it turned out). He was prosecuted four years later and although he wasn't required to travel back to Greece to attend the hearing he did have to pay around 1600 Euros to hire a marine lawyer to defend him. He was found not guilty because there had been no shipwreck but the consequences of a guilty verdict would not be pleasant I think.

Lessons:

1. Be certain that you really do need help before issuing a pan-pan. Call someone you know ashore (a marina, a friend, etc.) and ask them to arrange help instead if you can.

2. Ensure that all your paperwork is up to date. Ours was and that appeared to make a big difference in the way we were treated by the port police.

 

[Chris_Robb]

That sounds reasonable. Unfortunate but reasonable. It highlights a point I've made elsewhere on here about yacht papers in general (and the DEKPA in particular). You can get away for years without having the proper documentation, but if something happens and your papers are not up to date you just give them ammunition with which to shoot you. As in this sad case it would seem.

In Greece avoid issuing a pan-pan or being towed into a harbour unless there is no alternative. Any of these will require the local port police to impound the boat pending a seaworthiness survey by a Greek registered surveyor. Their argument is that they want to be sure the boat is seaworthy before they let you put to sea again so that you are not a drain on their search and rescue facilities. The CA has complained about this practice and the Greek Ministry of Shipping's reaction was that were they to stop doing this they would instead require that all boats were surveyed on entering Greece. The logic is hard to argue with. However the 'survey' is often cursory and yet expensive, I have heard of one boat owner being charged 600 Euros for such a survey and the 'surveyor' didn't even step aboard the boat. When this happened to me a few years ago we were lucky to get away with 200 Euros for the surveyor who was on board for all of five minutes and spent most of that time telling me what a lovely boat she was.

In addition, the port police are required to make a report on the circumstances and submit this to the public prosecutor to see whether a charge of 'causing a shipwreck' should be made against the skipper. The Greek legal system moves painfully slowly so it can be as many as six years later (or more now) before you are charged. I'm still waiting to see whether I will be prosecuted for my event four years ago. A CA member was prosecuted for issuing a pan-pan after striking an unmarked underwater rock which he thought had damaged his steering (it hadn't as it turned out). He was prosecuted four years later and although he wasn't required to travel back to Greece to attend the hearing he did have to pay around 1600 Euros to hire a marine lawyer to defend him. He was found not guilty because there had been no shipwreck but the consequences of a guilty verdict would not be pleasant I think.

Lessons:

1. Be certain that you really do need help before issuing a pan-pan. Call someone you know ashore (a marina, a friend, etc.) and ask them to arrange help instead if you can.

2. Ensure that all your paperwork is up to date. Ours was and that appeared to make a big difference in the way we were treated by the port police.

In this case - I totally agree with the Greeks approach, especially the no insurance bit.

In the case of the New DEKPA, most of the issues relating to every day use and purchase have come out. But there are 2 very important bits left
1. Every one must have the new form by 26th September 2017 - any renewals now must be on the new form.

2. We do not have an answer to this yet in total - the Greeks wont answer it::
The new DEKPA must be stamped every year on the same date. It is required that it is continuously renewed with NO lapses.

If you are NOT present you have to use an Agent, or your countries Maritime Attache to do this. (can you see the British Embassy helping - what a laugh). If submitted by an agent all documents supporting must be original or notarised.

As there are fines for not having a continuous DEKPA, we have asked under what circumstances they will be levied and up to what level.

We have also asked whether a Dekpa can be stamped early to change its effective annual date to make sure an owner is more likely to be there.

Our main concern is the owner who say renewed in March 2017 because he was out there doing maintenance , but next year will be caught unaware by returning in June - to be faced with a big problem. This may also be due to unforeseen events - illness - death in family - or even just normal haphazard use of the boat.

We have stated that this seems a draconian measure to achieve very little and could be against our human rights. Anyone no more about this aspect?

I do get responses from the Shipping Directorate but they take weeks and are in Greek - Google translate does a very good job.

As yet no news on the proposed Duty - there were rumours that Port Police were refusing to co-operate - as they are having further cuts to pensions and salaries.

 

[RichardS]

I just can't understand why the Greeks are making such a meal of what should be a simple process.

In Croatia all boats have to have a Vignette / marine licence which you has to be present on the boat at all times and must be shown to the marina office if you go into a marina or shown to the Port Police when you leave Croatia. Funnily enough, my own marina have never asked to see the form other than when I took out the initial contract 3 years ago so if I avoid all other marinas and only use moorings buoys or anchor and don't try to leave the country then, unless I have a technical problem at sea and have to call the Coastguard, I would never need to renew it.

The Vignette is £50 a year but the Harbourmaster's where you have to buy it understand that if you're not in the country then it will lapse. Mine runs to the 31st December each year so always expires whilst I am in the UK but when I visit the HM on my first visit to Croatia each Spring I just take the old Vignette into the HM's office and he issues me with the new one backdated to the 1st January and I pay the £50.

It's all computerised anyway so even if I didn't take the old form the HM could just type in the boat name and it's all on the screen. However, I suspect that if I didn't take in the old Vignette then I would have to produce my passport/RYA certificate/insurance. If you have the old Vignette then we aren't asked to produce anything.

I understand that the Greeks might struggle a bit with the computerisation bit but that's not a showstopper anyway.

Richard

 

[sailaboutvic]

I just can't understand why the Greeks are making such a meal of what should be a simple process.

In Croatia all boats have to have a Vignette / marine licence which you has to be present on the boat at all times and must be shown to the marina office if you go into a marina or shown to the Port Police when you leave Croatia. Funnily enough, my own marina have never asked to see the form other than when I took out the initial contract 3 years ago so if I avoid all other marinas and only use moorings buoys or anchor and don't try to leave the country then, unless I have a technical problem at sea and have to call the Coastguard, I would never need to renew it.

The Vignette is £50 a year but the Harbourmaster's where you have to buy it understand that if you're not in the country then it will lapse. Mine runs to the 31st December each year so always expires whilst I am in the UK but when I visit the HM on my first visit to Croatia each Spring I just take the old Vignette into the HM's office and he issues me with the new one backdated to the 1st January and I pay the £50.

It's all computerised anyway so even if I didn't take the old form the HM could just type in the boat name and it's all on the screen. However, I suspect that if I didn't take in the old Vignette then I would have to produce my passport/RYA certificate/insurance. If you have the old Vignette then we aren't asked to produce anything.

I understand that the Greeks might struggle a bit with the computerisation bit but that's not a showstopper anyway.

Richard

Richard I wouldn't read too much what said here , I heard from our French friend who seen to know the boat involved and we told it was nothing like the 5k that being reported here and there lots more to the story and that the boat had insurance .so there you go that's two story's already I guess we hear more soon .
A boat on the quay I was talking to last week in Prezeva said he couldn't get a DEKPA as they run out , once again I personally don't know if that's the case , we got our in March .