Got the new DEKPA today in Preveza

[Tony Cross]

...but both answers have been correct this millennium, which is actually pretty good going for the PP.
How long before we start taping conversations with the PP?

Agreed, which is why people like Chris Robb and Jim Baerselman who give of their own time and efforts to stay in touch with the Greek government and find out what the rules in Greece are and what the small print means, are so valuable. If WE know what we are supposed to be doing at least we can smile and nod at the PP who are wrong and then ensure we stay legal by finding a port police office that does keep up to date.

In the port police's defense, they are underpaid (when they are paid at all) and very much underappreciated. They do a pretty much thankless job and when you do have to deal with them for something serious (as I have) you realise that they're mostly good people trying to do the best they can. I suspect that quite often the port police in the front office that we see are the juniors who are probably kept largely in the dark by senior officers who think they know best how to run their patch...

 

[macd]

I've no doubt that's all true, Tony, and the sterling efforts of Jim, Chris and yourself are sincerely appreciated. The widespread PP ignorance encountered can only be attributed to woeful management and training practices, no doubt allied to lousy morale. But that's not my can to carry.

 

[sailaboutvic]

We been kicking this can around for some month now guys .
I think all anyone can do is what the PP you dealing with require , and as long as you have the DEKPA stamp or replace with a new one if that what they want , then that's all you can do .
Come Sept/ Oct and you happen to have a problem you can then show you had it stamp and at the time you was told that all that's needed .
You would have to be dealing with a right ass hole for him to cause you a problem and even so you have a good case to ague

Look at it it another way , if the LAW now state that when you go and get your stamp they have to sell you a new DEPKA and they don't surely that up to them .
I had to buy a new DEKPA as the boat I have now , didn't have one ,
it be interesting when I launch my other boat and take my old DEKPA in the same pp if they will stamp it or sell me a new one .
I sure they can't expect sailor from X amount of country to know the law have chance I guess there be a lot of lee way at less for the first year .

 

[Tony Cross]

We been kicking this can around for some month now guys .
I think all anyone can do is what the PP you dealing with require , and as long as you have the DEKPA stamp or replace with a new one if that what they want , then that's all you can do .
Come Sept/ Oct and you happen to have a problem you can then show you had it stamp and at the time you was told that all that's needed .
You would have to be dealing with a right ass hole for him to cause you a problem and even so you have a good case to ague

Look at it it another way , if the LAW now state that when you go and get your stamp they have to sell you a new DEPKA and they don't surely that up to them .
I had to buy a new DEKPA as the boat I have now , didn't have one ,
it be interesting when I launch my other boat and take my old DEKPA in the same pp if they will stamp it or sell me a new one .
I sure they can't expect sailor from X amount of country to know the law have chance I guess there be a lot of lee way at less for the first year .

Except that in an email to me from Chris Robb on these (and other) issues he mentions that the Greek Ministry of Shipping are saying that...

... They [the MoS] keep saying to me that the captain is responsible for knowing the law - I keep saying that they make it bloody difficult and in fact are obstructive - which is what they have been so far...

I rather fear that this is the attitude a switched on port policeman will take if you present an old DEKPA (stamped or not) after 26th September.....

 

[sailaboutvic]

Except that in an email to me from Chris Robb on these (and other) issues he mentions that the Greek Ministry of Shipping are saying that...




I rather fear that this is the attitude a switched on port policeman will take if you present an old DEKPA (stamped or not) after 26th September.....

That may be the case Tony , but as most of us who have sailed there part for many years know and have had many dealing with them , that most likely they will do what they always done , take the easy route .

The only people who are braking the law as I see it is the PP them self , for not selling people a new DEKPA.
So what do you say to people who boat on the hard and not coming back this year or even next year ?
Or to the people who turn up at a PP in sept asking to buy a new one and being told to go away their DEKPA is good for another year ,or would you suggest they keep going from pp to pp till they find one to sell them a new DEPKA?

Maybe the best advise to anyone who have had there old DEKPA stamp is ,
has I suggested before being shot down is next time it's due to be stamp , just report in as normal or if your really worried as if you Just enter the country ,
As for the people who say the PP know everyone and every boat , don't talk a lot of Bollx .

 

[Chris_Robb]

That may be the case Tony , but as most of us who have sailed there part for many years know and have had many dealing with them , that most likely they will do what they always done , take the easy route .

The only people who are braking the law as I see it is the PP them self , for not selling people a new DEKPA.
So what do you say to people who boat on the hard and not coming back this year or even next year ?
Or to the people who turn up at a PP in sept asking to buy a new one and being told to go away their DEKPA is good for another year ,or would you suggest they keep going from pp to pp till they find one to sell them a new DEPKA?

Maybe the best advise to anyone who have had there old DEKPA stamp is ,
has I suggested before being shot down is next time it's due to be stamp , just report in as normal or if your really worried as if you Just enter the country ,
As for the people who say the PP know everyone and every boat , don't talk a lot of Bollx .

Vic - that's the problem when you deal with a third world country suffering oppression from their teutonic masters. We have tried to offer our services to help write an overview that they could publish to all visitors - but they don't respond. They do however keep re-iterating that "Capitan must know the Law" which they then proceed to obstruct us knowing.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

[FONT=&quot]Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
From the Cruising Association.

Over the last 6 months the Cruising Association has been attempting to clarify the regulations surrounding the replacement DEKPA. We could get no response to a clear set of questions for months from the relevant Greek Directorates and when they did finally respond, they were in Greek. Translation using Google gave us sufficient understanding to put the facts together that were emerging from our members and the YBW forums, and in fact, once stocks of the new forms reached the office of the Port Police, the process has seemed to function, albeit, somewhat cumbersomely for some.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Of course there have been some wrinkles and Port Police not knowing about the law, but in general that’s about the standard of training at the Ports and is par for the course in Greece.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Here is a summary of what we do know and what you need to do to comply. The problems may come on renewal.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]To get your new DEKPA you need to present the following original documents:[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Registration Document[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Insurance certificate (in Greek)[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Passport for every person on the registration certificate (this could be a problem for shared ownership yachts). *[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]ICC or equivalent **[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Receipt for the €50 fee ***[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]* Notarised copies of Passports will be acceptable where not all owners are present.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]** Whilst you may not get a query presenting your RYA Yacht Master certificate, the official line is that there must be an authorised explanation in Greek that the certificate in question has sufficient standing. Please just therefore get an ICC and do not risk it.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*** The rules say you must use the online Greek Tax system and if you have problems, you can get help from the Port office and the Citizens Help Bureau (CSC). However in practise the Port Police will either direct you to a local bank or the local Tax office – or the CSC in order to pay. You will then go back with the receipt to the Port Police and they will issue the new DEKPA.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So far so good – apart from some Port offices who have not heard of it yet, or have run out of forms, or who think that its only for over 9 metre yachts (7 metre is the requirement) things seem to be running OK.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now for the bits that have not come out:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot] Even if you have had your old DEKPA stamped recently this year, you MUST have the new form by 26^th September 2017. No Ifs or Buts. There are fines mentioned in the law – so just get one.[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]Come renewal next year, the provisions of the Law REQUIRE YOU to have it stamped on the DUE DATE each year. There must be no lapses – again there are provisions for fines. We have been informed that owners who cannot be there at renewal must employ an Agent to act for them. This is wholly impractical and totally unacceptable.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We understand that many Port Police may just make you get a new DEKPA form – thus your “fine” will be €50. However we have no clarification on this.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have asked for clarification on the following:[/FONT]

1. [FONT=&quot]What are the fines, and under what circumstances will they be levied?[/FONT]
2. [FONT=&quot]Would they allow – like Croatia – a discretion for Port Police to back date the stamp when the owner is finally present?[/FONT]
3. [FONT=&quot]Is the re issue of a new DEKPA at €50 official policy for late renewal?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We would not condone deliberate avoidance in not holding a valid DEKPA.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Other Matters:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Proposed Greek Cruising Duty/Tax[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]There is no official information at all coming from the relevant Directorate as to when – or if – this duty will be collected. The only rumours we hear are that the Port Police have refused to collect it – but this is wholly unsubstantiated. We can but wait and see.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Banking Crisis?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Sailors need to be prepared for a re-run of 2015 cash crisis and may perhaps carry some emergency Euros if things get bad again. Let us hope it gets sorted.[/FONT]

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

[FONT="]Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="]
From the Cruising Association.

Over the last 6 months the Cruising Association has been attempting to clarify the regulations surrounding the replacement DEKPA. We could get no response to a clear set of questions for months from the relevant Greek Directorates and when they did finally respond, they were in Greek. Translation using Google gave us sufficient understanding to put the facts together that were emerging from our members and the YBW forums, and in fact, once stocks of the new forms reached the office of the Port Police, the process has seemed to function, albeit, somewhat cumbersomely for some.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Of course there have been some wrinkles and Port Police not knowing about the law, but in general that’s about the standard of training at the Ports and is par for the course in Greece.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
Here is a summary of what we do know and what you need to do to comply. The problems may come on renewal.[/FONT]
[FONT="]To get your new DEKPA you need to present the following original documents:[/FONT]

[LIST]
[*][COLOR=black][FONT="]Registration Document[/FONT][/COLOR]
[*][FONT="]Insurance certificate (in Greek)[/FONT][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=black][FONT="]Passport for every person on the registration certificate (this could be a problem for shared ownership yachts). *[/FONT]
[*][FONT="]ICC or equivalent **[/FONT][/COLOR]
[*][COLOR=black][FONT="]Receipt for the €50 fee ***[/FONT]
[/LIST]
[FONT="][COLOR=black]* Notarised copies of Passports will be acceptable where not all owners are present.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT="]** Whilst you may not get a query presenting your RYA Yacht Master certificate, the official line is that there must be an authorised explanation in Greek that the certificate in question has sufficient standing. Please just therefore get an ICC and do not risk it.[/FONT]
[FONT="][COLOR=black]*** The rules say you must use the online Greek Tax system and if you have problems, you can get help from the Port office and the Citizens Help Bureau (CSC). However in practise the Port Police will either direct you to a local bank or the local Tax office – or the CSC in order to pay. You will then go back with the receipt to the Port Police and they will issue the new DEKPA.[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT="]So far so good – apart from some Port offices who have not heard of it yet, or have run out of forms, or who think that its only for over 9 metre yachts (7 metre is the requirement) things seem to be running OK.[/FONT]
[FONT="][COLOR=black]Now for the bits that have not come out:[/COLOR][/FONT][/B]

[LIST=1]
[*][FONT="] Even if you have had your old DEKPA stamped recently this year, you MUST have the new form by 26^th September 2017. No Ifs or Buts. There are fines mentioned in the law – so just get one.[/FONT]
[*][FONT="]Come renewal next year, the provisions of the Law REQUIRE YOU to have it stamped on the [B]DUE DATE [/B]each year. There must be no lapses – again there are provisions for fines. We have been informed that owners who cannot be there at renewal must employ an Agent to act for them. This is wholly impractical and totally unacceptable.[/FONT]
[/LIST]
[FONT="]We understand that many Port Police may just make you get a new DEKPA form – thus your “fine” will be €50. However we have no clarification on this.[/FONT]
[FONT="]We have asked for clarification on the following:[/FONT]

[LIST=1]
[*][FONT="]What are the fines, and under what circumstances will they be levied?[/FONT]
[*][FONT="]Would they allow – like Croatia – a discretion for Port Police to back date the stamp when the owner is finally present?[/FONT]
[*][FONT="]Is the re issue of a new DEKPA at €50 official policy for late renewal?[/FONT]
[/LIST]
[FONT="]We would not condone deliberate avoidance in not holding a valid DEKPA.[/FONT]
[B][FONT="]Other Matters:[/FONT]
[FONT="]Proposed Greek Cruising Duty/Tax[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="]There is no official information at all coming from the relevant Directorate as to when – or if – this duty will be collected. The only rumours we hear are that the Port Police have refused to collect it – but this is wholly unsubstantiated. We can but wait and see.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Banking Crisis?[/FONT][/B]
[FONT="]Sailors need to be prepared for a re-run of 2015 cash crisis and may perhaps carry some emergency Euros if things get bad again. Let us hope it gets sorted.[/FONT]

Chris thank you so much for update us all .
But there still a problem with some people who have had there boat on the hard from many years and for some reason can't come out to get a new DEKPA of find anyone to do this on there behalf .
Also as I have already said , what happen come Sept and you still can't buy a new DEPKA?
Until every single PP office catch up with the Law ,
we are all in limbo land and we can only do what at the time we feel is right .

If you forget about the small amount of people on here that read this info , there hundreds if not thousand of sailor from all over Europe and the world come o that , who have no idea about this Law ,
I talked to many since I been back in March who have no idea so I guess there going to be a lot of people come Sept who still have there old DEKPA.
Again on behalf of all non CA member here thanks

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Chris thank you so much for update us all .
But there still a problem with some people who have had there boat on the hard from many years and for some reason can't come out to get a new DEKPA of find anyone to do this on there behalf .
Also as I have already said , what happen come Sept and you still can't buy a new DEPKA?
Until every single PP office catch up with the Law ,
we are all in limbo land and we can only do what at the time we feel is right .

If you forget about the small amount of people on here that read this info , there hundreds if not thousand of sailor from all over Europe and the world come o that , who have no idea about this Law ,
I talked to many since I been back in March who have no idea so I guess there going to be a lot of people come Sept who still have there old DEKPA.
Again on behalf of all non CA member here thanks

Vic - We are also trying to deal with the long term laid up boats - I know what they will say - "Put the boat out of use by handing in the papers. easy if you are there, but hopeless if you are not.

And yes - you are right that only a small percentage look at these forums - or are even members of the CA. This is where the Obstructive Bureaucratic attitude of Greek officialdom is just so insulting to the people who go to their country and spend money there. Frankly they dont deserve any of it!

These are the ones that will fall foul of the "Capitan must know the Law" and they don't seem to see that that is actually against our human rights!!! I never thought I would ever say that.... Idiots!

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Just as a PS to my last posting .
I will be leaving Greece some time last summer if things go to plain .
My intention are to get my DEKPA stamp before I leave just in case we don't come back till after March , which is when I got the new DEPKA.
It be interesting to see if they will stamp it for me or tell me to go away , I will report back when I know the answer .

 

[silver-fox]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Please forgive some slight thread drift....

I am about to enter Greek waters for the first time but am leaving for the boat before the receipt of my renewed SSR. So the bottom line is I will be presenting initially an SSR that has expired a month ago .

All my other papers are in order and my daughter will bring out the new SSR at the end of June

Do you think I will face problems?

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Please forgive some slight thread drift....

I am about to enter Greek waters for the first time but am leaving for the boat before the receipt of my renewed SSR. So the bottom line is I will be presenting initially an SSR that has expired a month ago .

All my other papers are in order and my daughter will bring out the new SSR at the end of June

Do you think I will face problems?

It really depends on where you go (as this thread is demonstrating!). Is it possible to get your daughter to scan the new SSR and email it to you so that you can at least show that you do have an updated SSR?

The problem with Greek port policemen (sorry, police PERSONS) is that some are bored and lazy and won't even look at the expiry date, whilst others (who may well be new and keen or who want to make their mark) will read every word and be quite excited when they find your SSR out of date and they have something new to play with.

 

[silver-fox]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

It really depends on where you go (as this thread is demonstrating!). Is it possible to get your daughter to scan the new SSR and email it to you so that you can at least show that you do have an updated SSR?

The problem with Greek port policemen (sorry, police PERSONS) is that some are bored and lazy and won't even look at the expiry date, whilst others (who may well be new and keen or who want to make their mark) will read every word and be quite excited when they find your SSR out of date and they have something new to play with.

Thanks for your thoughts Tony

Shortly after I posted, the SSR people emailed me a copy of my new certificate, so that, together with the accompanying email from the MCA, may just be enough to satisfy the PP until I get a hard copy.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Just so people know , Nidri have now got a new stack of DEKPA, after running out the other week .

 

[sailaboutvic]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Thanks for your thoughts Tony

Shortly after I posted, the SSR people emailed me a copy of my new certificate, so that, together with the accompanying email from the MCA, may just be enough to satisfy the PP until I get a hard copy.

If you have a really problem and your around the Lefkes area let me know and I see if we can met up and I show you a way , sorry can't post here .

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: Greek Permit to Cruise for EU Flagged vessels– DEKPA – UPDATE

Thanks for your thoughts Tony

Shortly after I posted, the SSR people emailed me a copy of my new certificate, so that, together with the accompanying email from the MCA, may just be enough to satisfy the PP until I get a hard copy.

I would think you'll be fine with that, though you might get some questions about it...