Game Changing 42 ft Flybridge Concept? Opinions appreciated!

[Hugin]

It is a mystery to me why none of the UK builders have got products in this area of the market

+1 to it all and especially the last sentence. The Italians are chasing the buyers with modern boats. The French have started to move too as they are adding to their Swift Trawler and Velasco ranges. If Bavaria is eyeing a potential too then someone should wake up the UK builders.

 

[Anders_P42]

The thing is I don't think they are selling at £830k all the time. Sometimes they're selling at £830k less 15-20% discount by all accounts!

I should have explained, the price on the SIBS boat was just over £1M inc VAT list. That's a £200K increase over the prices in YBW review from June 13 which I'd assume are also list prices. If I'm ever in the position to afford one, it sounds like I need an experienced price negotiator if 15-20% is up for grabs.

Sorry for thread drift OP.

 

[Hugin]

The crunch is regardless of being able to buy a bigger boat, I simply couldn't afford to run one. I think the affordability tipping point for the largest market sector here is at the 35 foot mark.

I'm thinking along the same lines and the choice of a single engine and relatively simple propulsive set-up are also in part an attempt to push that tipping point upwards by following the KISS principle, but as always mission creep is unavoidable. Then it is nice to have this and almost indispensable to add that..... where should the cut off be to keep total cost of ownership reasonable.

Maximizing space for flexible use for me is key. I would like sliding slatted wood partitions instead of fixed bulkheads.

Many have tried but it's difficult to really open up the deck layout, because a boat is not a square box and your sliding panels can't slide far before they meet a rounded corner either up or down. I have seen some Italian builders use folding partitions instead. Check this one out http://www.rioyachts.net/en/yachts/rio-46-air/ I think it can work well on a sport cruiser type.

Then w.r.t. dual purposing dinettes etc into beds. Frankly this is always a bit of a downer. Shuffling cushions and boards and pillar stands about last thing at night. Not fun.

Totally agree. And that's why I have some confidence in my idea - I reduce this inconvenience to almost nothing. I've made a little amateurish drawing illustrating most of the salon deck - minus part of the aft end. The layout is compatible with the Master Cabin layout discussed last week.



As you can see there are 2 dinettes, a large aft and a smaller just opposite the galley - ideal for breakfast and quick meals when there are only few people aboard. The intention is that there will be a retractable (powered) partition between the two dinettes. When it is fully lowered only a ~50cm glass partition between the two areas is visible - this glass extension is necessary because it is not possible to retract the partition below floor level due to the engine room below. As the partition is raised it becomes a solid wood bulkhead with the glass area making up the top part. This already creates a degree of privacy in the forward port area of the salon.

The double bed is created by removing the back rest between the small dinette and the lounger as well as part of the backrest along the side windows. This creates a cushioned sleeping area ~2.0x1.4m large. And it's a one-piece cushion (mattress); no infills, no fumbling with table pedestals or anything. Just remove the mentioned backrests and you're done as far as the bed goes. After that fold the dinette table to half size and hang a privacy curtain along the 2 remaining sides (fore and towards the aisle) and you have a fairly decent "soft cabin" ~3.0x1.4m. with a double. There's a place to stand "inside" the curtains and possibility of changing clothes out of view, enough space for the guests' bags and other stuff either under the table or on the unused part of the dinette bench. Please notice the preparations for the night doesn't have to be put off until just before bed-time, as the "soft cabin" doesn't obstruct the main entertainment areas aboard.

I believe this set up will be acceptable for most if it's just for a night or two......... and then there's the option of turning the "soft cabin" into a "hard cabin" with full privacy by replacing the privacy curtain with the already mentioned set of boards and other amenities for increased comfort when this sleeping area is needed for extended period.

I'd like to dispense with the manual aspect and make it mechanical or sliding.

Would be nice, but full mechanization will increase cost and complexity beyond the reasonable, IMHO. And I'm not sure it would not compromise the aesthetics when partitions are folded/slid away but still somewhat visible.

Same goes for galley space. Having so much fixed furniture which goes largely unused clutters up the interior.

At least for a 35+ ft boat I would disagree with this. A permanent and generously (relative to boat size) dimensioned galley is essential for the well-being of crew and guests. Food and drink is - at least in my experience - a central theme for many boaters. I've been on many a day-trip with guests where the destination is an anchorage and the main activity a delicious lunch in the company of friends. I'm not saying you need 8-courses gourmet meals, but whatever you need there must be somewhere to prepare and organize it.

 

[BruceK]

w.r.t. the galley. I agree there must be a good galley area. What I was refering to though was counter top workspace. One needs a good workspace otherwise the galley starts spilling over to the dinette during preperations. However creating this as a fixed work space would clutter up the area. I was thinking more along the lines of say for instance, quarter round boards that stow away between the top of the galley top and the drawers / cupboards beneath but can rotate and lock into place increasing workspace when needed. On my boat the galley extends from the head right through to the start of V berth in a long line. It is a poor utilization of space, albeit the wife likes it because it has so much space. It also has the unfortunate aspect AFAIC of making the interior seem slightly unbalanced / off centre. A system as described would have allowed for more wardrobe or a.n. other.

 

[petem]

View attachment 55038

Looking at the plan and your first post, can I just clarify the following (apologies if you've covered this in later posts). This saloon will back onto the stern of the boat (no open cockpit at the stern). Below this area there will be 3 double cabins (full height in places) and two heads. Forward of this area will be your bow cockpit (with nothing below that I assume). Above this area will be a flybridge.

 

[Chris_d]

Been following this with interest as coming from a 32ft compromised sports cruiser this sounds like exactly the sort of boat I would like to buy.
However one of my pet hates is dinettes, please no! lets have proper lounging sofas. Why do you have to sit down in front of a table everywhere on a boat.
One wish of mine and I'm sure most moving up from smaller boats is to have nothing convertible, but permanently made up berths, no moving partitions, no canopies. Also a bit concerned that this doesn't appear to being designed on 3D CAD, not sure I would ever buy a new boat that had been drawn with a pencil

 

[Hugin]

This saloon will back onto the stern of the boat (no open cockpit at the stern).

Yes and no!
The aft end of the superstructure will look pretty much as any other similar sized Flybridge boat. There will be the usual flybridge overhang and a transom with an opening giving access to the platform. And a staircase to the flybridge of course. This is the case as long as the aft end is opened up as it surely will be anytime the weather permits. When the aft end is closed down for the night or due to weather it will not be with canvas and Isinglass, but with real windows and doors around the three open sides of the "aft cockpit". The aft cockpit becomes a proper "indoor" space. Maybe you can say most of the "aft cockpit" - when used as an aft cockpit - is filled up with a single large dinette, so there will not be much space for the classic Titanic-style deck chairs or to use it creatively as "dance hall"

The precise arrangement providing the glass enclosure and allowing easy access to the aft platform and the flybridge are details we keep under wraps a few more months.

Below this area there will be 3 double cabins (full height in places) and two heads.

Not quite. The Master cabin with Ensuite will be below the forward part of the salon. A double guest cabin will be under the aft end of the salon, partly tugged under the large dinette and extending all the way to the transom. This cabin will have a limited area with full headroom (but not smaller than many other 40ft, boats provide for their 2nd cabin) and access to the cabin will overall be comparable to how it is done for the aft most cabin of a Delta 40 SW (easy to Google). A decent lazarette is to starboard of the aft cabin and the ~2m. long engine room is in between the 2 cabins.

Entering the forward lower deck via the stairs from the salon there is an entrance to the Master cabin to port and the main Head is to starboard. Further forward there are 2 single cabins each side of a center-line companionway leading to the bow cockpit above. These two cabins will have single berths along the hull sides and foot ends extending under the cockpit deck above. The intention is to use some relatively wide sliding doors to the two single cabins, countering any tendency towards a claustrophobic feel. The bow cockpit will not be fully immersed below the gunwale level, so there will still be quite a lot of headroom below, but of course not full headroom exactly where the cockpit deck is.

Above this area will be a flybridge.

Yes, this 3-layered set up (midships cabin + salon + flybridge) is very comparable to the arrangement seen on the similar sized (slightly shorter/slightly lighter) Prestige 420

 

[BruceK]

Sounds a bit top heavy for the length re headroom under cockpit and overhanging FB /single engine. How will all that handle the short steep chop of the Irish Sea?

 

[JumbleDuck]

When the aft end is closed down for the night or due to weather it will not be with canvas and Isinglass ...

I hope not!

Isinglass (/ˈaɪzɪŋɡlæs/ or /ˈaɪzɪŋɡlɑːs/) is a substance obtained from the dried swim bladders of fish. It is a form of collagen used mainly for the clarification or fining of beer. It can also be cooked into a paste for specialized gluing purposes.

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isinglass​

 

[ian38_39]

Watching with interest, being a third boat Sealine owner I am used to lots being crammed in. Have to say one of the benefits to moving to the F43 is gaining the length and weight to improve the overall sea keeping when compared to the fit everything you can into the smallest space possible approach. Cabins are not the only thing gained as the boat gets bigger.
Do you see your design competing like for like price wise with other similar length boats or are you anticipating a premium that puts you not far behind the next length up from other manufacturers?

 

[Hugin]

Sounds a bit top heavy for the length re headroom under cockpit and overhanging FB /single engine. How will all that handle the short steep chop of the Irish Sea?

Not full headroom under the aft cockpit; only a limited area. It will not be more top heavy than a Prestige 420, but I don't think there are any owners of this model, who can report back on the effects of the short steep chop of the Irish Sea yet. A waterline of ~10.5 should allow for decent sea-keeping characteristics. The single engine will actually be very low in the hull due to it's center line position. I also calculate with a tradition GRP hull, not vacuum infusion, which will place extra weight low compared to Prestige 420.

 

[Hugin]

However one of my pet hates is dinettes, please no! lets have proper lounging sofas. Why do you have to sit down in front of a table everywhere on a boat

I hear you, but it does present a dilemma, because people gotta eat and balancing plate and wineglass on your knees is usually not a favored solution.... and you could soon enough get complaints about the dinning table being too small/low/far away to be of practical use The benches on the flybridge are intended to be little lower and deeper as are also the seats at the small dinette in the salon..... but it's a balance and I admit to be vary of sacrificing practicability. I'm not certain when a "cushioned bench" becomes a "lounging sofa" and vice versa; but I do agree that low, comfy sofas add to the sense of luxury.

One wish of mine and I'm sure most moving up from smaller boats is to have nothing convertible, but permanently made up berths, no moving partitions, no canopies.

Except for the remark about canopies this is interestingly the exact opposite of what BruceK called for yesterday. I like convertibility if it can be done without any compromise of the main or most common use of an area or a piece of furniture...... and provided it doesn't become an eye-sore due to the convertibility.

Also a bit concerned that this doesn't appear to being designed on 3D CAD

Work in progress, but not in my power to speed it up.

 

[Anders_P42]

I hear you, but it does present a dilemma, because people gotta eat and balancing plate and wineglass on your knees is usually not a favored solution.... and you could soon enough get complaints about the dinning table being too small/low/far away to be of practical use The benches on the flybridge are intended to be little lower and deeper as are also the seats at the small dinette in the salon..... but it's a balance and I admit to be vary of sacrificing practicability. I'm not certain when a "cushioned bench" becomes a "lounging sofa" and vice versa; but I do agree that low, comfy sofas add to the sense of luxury.

Hi / low table for the larger dining area would help, then you can have coffee table when your not eating. See folding dining table on P52.

Anders

 

[Greg2]

Hi / low table for the larger dining area would help, then you can have coffee table when your not eating. See folding dining table on P52.

Anders

+1
That's what we have and it has the benefit of not being fixed so we can move it away from the seating if required

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Not full headroom under the aft cockpit; only a limited area.

How is that going to work? Is it like the Sealine F43/410 with a sunken section over the aft cabin bed below?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I hear you, but it does present a dilemma, because people gotta eat and balancing plate and wineglass on your knees is usually not a favored solution..

I'm with you on that. Any seating area which is expected to be used for eating has to have seats which are upright enough to sit at a table properly. My pet hate is the other way around in that many builders provide seating areas for eating which have a tiny low table and soft squishy seats. Fine for a lounging area but not for eating

 

[Arians]

Unless I've misread the price, the fly bridge version of the DA10 comes out at just over £200k including VAT. I'd have thought that might be a bit of a game changer! The lower helm is in the centre of the boats fulcrum, why would that be?