Fridge recharging

Homer J

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Is it possible to regas the 12v fridge on a boat? If so how do I go about it / buy the products / arrange for someone to do it?

The problem with it is that it never gets very cold and certainly doesn’t make ice in the freezer section which is affecting the quality of the G&Ts.
 

superheat6k

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To save my fingers please see my recent thread response to "Sweating fridge pipe" thread.

It is only legal in the UK for registered firms employing FGas registered engineers to buy and use (charge into a system) refrigerant. That said Halfords sell it in small canisters with PAG oil included. Your boat fridge likely uses POE type oil, so then using this will cause the two to combine, but I don't know how PAG and POE get along together, although I guess I should. I guess plenty have used these refill kits, and I have never seen anyone later admit they have wrecked their compressor as a result.

Before you try it please check the thing for leaks first, or you will only be achieving a short term fix. It is not my advice to mix PAG and POE oil grades within a system. If you do and the fridge is still working fine in say two years please come back here and say so.
 

Homer J

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Thanks. It’s 20 yrs old so I suspect it’s just age related. Your post was very useful and has convinced me it’s not a DIY job with the risk of releasing gases to the environment


Can anyone recommend a Solent based marine fridge engineer? I’m based in Beaulieu.
 

PaulRainbow

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Thanks. It’s 20 yrs old so I suspect it’s just age related. Your post was very useful and has convinced me it’s not a DIY job with the risk of releasing gases to the environment


Can anyone recommend a Solent based marine fridge engineer? I’m based in Beaulieu.

If it's 20 years old, it's more likely to have a leak.

You don't specifically need a "marine" refrigeration engineer, people who do domestic or commercial refrigeration or air con could do it, if you can find a mobile one. Or, a mobile automotive engineer will be able to do it, if his equipment is small enough to carry onboard.
 

Plum

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Is it possible to regas the 12v fridge on a boat? If so how do I go about it / buy the products / arrange for someone to do it?

The problem with it is that it never gets very cold and certainly doesn’t make ice in the freezer section which is affecting the quality of the G&Ts.

Mine was 15 years old and when I contacted a refrigeration repair company (I was going to take the fridge to them) I was told there was no point in recharging without finding and repairing the leak. The likely cost of finding and fixing the leak (if it was found to be fixable without major surgery) and then recharging, would probably be uneconomic so he recommended I go buy a new one. The new one uses less energy, has a larger volume and is quieter.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
 
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Neeves

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Sadly - we found it more effective to buy a new fridge than repair an almost 20 year old fridge. The call out charge (+ open ended costs) and then the idea that you are simply ending up with a quick fix (and still have a 20 year old fridge) was convincing. Though note - we are in Sydney (an expensive location for labour - but a task, as outlined, we cannot complete ourselves).

The new fridge is the same size, has better insulation, is more efficient. and the dependability of the quality of the G&Ts make it worthwhile.

Jonathan

Apologies - my post crossed that of Plum's saying the exact, well almost, same thing!
 

Clive

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Yes you can re gas fridges, I had an 15yr old Waco fridge, and it was re-gassed, by Rob Wells. He did advise me that any very slow leaks probable would not last long ie up to a year. He was correct it lasted just over a year. He has now fitted an brand new unit. Very nice guy and helpful, High recommend him.

He covers the Solent area give him a call. 07909 950979..
 

Yngmar

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Very possible. You need a manifold with pressure gauge, hoses and valves, the gas itself (probably R134a, but you've gotta check - usually an obvious sticker on the pipes), a tap valve for the gas bottle and typically a vacuum pump, all with matching connectors.

You also need to fix the leak. Ours was in the rubbish quick connect couplings that are the main downside of kit fridges. In many, if not most cases of boat fridges leaking or having blockages, it seems to be caused by those. If you do this, you inevitably need the vacuum pump to evacuate the system, as the couplings needed removing, cleaning up crumbling sealant (that was intermittently blocking the capillary pipe) and careful resealing. We used a bicycle pump to blow the pipes through and clear them of any sealant crumbles.

The parts are all easy to get apart from the gas. I've got lucky and scored a bottle of 900g of pure R134a (no oil) on eBay. The car airconditioning mixes with oil in them can supposedly be used too, by keeping the bottle upright (valve on top), so the oil remains behind in the bottle, but I didn't not need to resort to this.

All in all the parts were around £140, which was less than a single call-out charge to regas the thing, not including labour to actually fix the couplings, which most refrigeration engineers won't do anyways, they'll just want to sell you a new kit fridge for £600 or thereabouts.

Best do it outside the UK to avoid hobby lawyers chasing you down ;-) Read more about R134a: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

It is very satisfying to hear the boiling gas burbling away in the evaporator and feel it get cold again after you've successfully repaired your fridge! :)
 

Heckler

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Very possible. You need a manifold with pressure gauge, hoses and valves, the gas itself (probably R134a, but you've gotta check - usually an obvious sticker on the pipes), a tap valve for the gas bottle and typically a vacuum pump, all with matching connectors.

You also need to fix the leak. Ours was in the rubbish quick connect couplings that are the main downside of kit fridges. In many, if not most cases of boat fridges leaking or having blockages, it seems to be caused by those. If you do this, you inevitably need the vacuum pump to evacuate the system, as the couplings needed removing, cleaning up crumbling sealant (that was intermittently blocking the capillary pipe) and careful resealing. We used a bicycle pump to blow the pipes through and clear them of any sealant crumbles.

The parts are all easy to get apart from the gas. I've got lucky and scored a bottle of 900g of pure R134a (no oil) on eBay. The car airconditioning mixes with oil in them can supposedly be used too, by keeping the bottle upright (valve on top), so the oil remains behind in the bottle, but I didn't not need to resort to this.

All in all the parts were around £140, which was less than a single call-out charge to regas the thing, not including labour to actually fix the couplings, which most refrigeration engineers won't do anyways, they'll just want to sell you a new kit fridge for £600 or thereabouts.

Best do it outside the UK to avoid hobby lawyers chasing you down ;-) Read more about R134a: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane

It is very satisfying to hear the boiling gas burbling away in the evaporator and feel it get cold again after you've successfully repaired your fridge! :)
Spot on, I did the same a few yrs ago, the gas was a lot cheaper then! About £80 a bottle now. I also have a set of guages on board and some solder type 1/8” ? access valves. For a vacuum pump I used an old mains fridge compressor, soldered on an access valve. Works great. For the tooth suckers, the amount of gas in our systems is just a sparrow fart in the great scheme of things! And cynical old moi noted that when the tree huggers were whining on and the uk had mountains of fridges that couldnt be “recycled” that the R12 that was being recovered was being shipped to India and China! I wonder what for? plus I never got a satisfactory answer as to how heavier than air freon got to the ozone layer to allegedly destroy it! And of course the hilarious stories about our EU masters trying to get car manus to use highly flammeable propane or some such in acs in cars and the german manus telling them to go swivel, allegedly!
 

Daverw

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Just one point to add, the pulling of the vacuum is not just about removing air it’s about boiling off any moisture in the system, your old compressor will not pull it down into a low enough vacuum but as most systems are small and boat air dry you could get away with it. I pull about 4 torr or below vacumn to commission which is nearly -1 Bar.
 

superheat6k

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Just one point to add, the pulling of the vacuum is not just about removing air it’s about boiling off any moisture in the system, your old compressor will not pull it down into a low enough vacuum but as most systems are small and boat air dry you could get away with it. I pull about 4 torr or below vacumn to commission which is nearly -1 Bar.
+1 - we work on larger systems at < 5 torr, but let's not split hairs eh. I reckon this old compressor at best would achieve around 100 torr vacuum. Not much moisture flashing off there, then the user wonders why there is reduced gas flow and utterly fail to understand the effect of moisture frozen at the outlet from the capillary, but does note the frozen plate, fully charged system and no leaks.
 

FulmarJeddo

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Before you try it please check the thing for leaks first, or you will only be achieving a short term fix. It is not my advice to mix PAG and POE oil grades within a system. If you do and the fridge is still working fine in say two years please come back here and say so.

I fitted a Waeco compressor and plate about 6 or 7 years ago. I messed up and didn't get the once only couplings right and after a couple of months the fridge failed. After struggling to find an engineer to come out to my swinging mooring I bought a Halfords kit plus some adapters from eBay. The fridge has worked fine since.
 

Yngmar

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+1 - we work on larger systems at < 5 torr, but let's not split hairs eh. I reckon this old compressor at best would achieve around 100 torr vacuum. Not much moisture flashing off there, then the user wonders why there is reduced gas flow and utterly fail to understand the effect of moisture frozen at the outlet from the capillary, but does note the frozen plate, fully charged system and no leaks.

I have a proper vacuum pump, which was £70 from eBay at the time (plus pump oil, which wasn't included). Bit heavy to sail around with, but turned out to be quite useful, as you can use the same pump for vacuum bagging/infusion and I've also used it to remove moisture from inside our rudder :)

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Homer J

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Thanks to all for the advice

How easy is it to fit a new fridge? Mine is top access with the compressor under the oven. Is it an easy diy job?
 

Neeves

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Sorry Homer I cannot offer much comment - except that our fridge, front opening, was a new model and the exact same size as the old model. The old model had a remote compressor, which was easy to disengage. The new compressor had all the same wiring. Remote compressors are an easy fit and are supplied pre-gassed - you just connect all the pipework. Do not be intimidated.

The most difficult part was getting the new fridge into the dinghy, we are on a swing mooring, and fridges are not made to fit dinghies :( .

If you fit a new fridge - consider adding a computer fan to increase airflow - it makes a surprising difference and the fans are cheap (or free if you find a discarded computer). They are wired into the existing fan.

Jonathan
 

Heckler

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Just one point to add, the pulling of the vacuum is not just about removing air it’s about boiling off any moisture in the system, your old compressor will not pull it down into a low enough vacuum but as most systems are small and boat air dry you could get away with it. I pull about 4 torr or below vacumn to commission which is nearly -1 Bar.
I know its about “boiling” off water. I was repairing stuff like this back in the 80s as part of my game. According to my professional guages it did. 1 bar is only 15psi so atmospheric pressure, pull it below 0 and you have that.
 

Daverw

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Will add that it’s not possible for a valve compressor to pull down that far due to leakage on each valve stroke, vac pumps are rotary vane for that exact reason, you professional gauges will not read accurately in low vacumns that’s why we use a Torr gauge. Just for reference it still is my full time job and has been for over 30 years
 

superheat6k

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Will add that it’s not possible for a valve compressor to pull down that far due to leakage on each valve stroke, vac pumps are rotary vane for that exact reason, you professional gauges will not read accurately in low vacumns that’s why we use a Torr gauge. Just for reference it still is my full time job and has been for over 30 years
+1 if we could all use an old compressor as a Vac pump believe me we would. But Vacuum Pump Oil is snake oil in its finest form. You can use basic engine oil in a vac pump without any problems at all (not in the fridge compressor). The big issue with fridge 'kits' is the quality of the joints, always. Brazed joints are always superior, but pre-charged units will then require a vac and regas.

I am wanting to know how folk are getting on with PAG oiled Halfords cans in POE oiled systems.
 
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