Folk boat

[oldharry]

Thanks Snowgoose: I was simply pointing out that nightmares come in all shapes and sizes, be they wood, plastic, steel, concrete or anything in between. Just as there are many 'orrible plastic ones, so are there some really abysmal wooden ones.

All boats are a money pit - but wooden boats can rapidly become a large and very expensive hole in the bank account, and to maintain a wooden boat properly does require a subtantial investment of time money and effort. Maybe I am a bit of a perfectionist, but 4 months maintenance and 8 months sailing as afforded by my present GRP boat seems to me far preferable to the 8 months it seemed always to take to get my wooden boats 'right' - leaving only 4 months for sailing /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Having said that it has taken over 40 years to find a GRP boat I am really comfortable with - I really should have bought one when I first saw and fell in love with them at the LIBS back in the 60's, rather than leave it to now!

And Chrishelen, my last boat was an Eventide - lovely boats, I really enjoyed mine - but she needed a great deal of time to keep her in really good order. Time which I would prefer to have spent out sailing!

 

[misty56]

I suggest you read my first post, which was the subject of a strongly negative response, before criticising my reply to that response.

If you do bother to read that first post, you will see that I made it clear that wooden boats are not for everyone, but if you have a passion for them, then nothing else will do. To which I was treated to the usual plastic-boat-owner blah-de-blah about how much trouble wooden boats are and deliberately suggesting that those who own them are not sailors but woodworking enthusiasts. I suggest they ask that of Don Street, for one.

I do not have any view on who should participate on this forum, plastic, steel, wood, ferro, ally or no boat at all! I do not personally consider that a production-line plastic boat can be called a classic, but that's a different issue. I do, however, very firmly take the view that if plastic-boat owners want to run down, have a go or be negative about wooden boats, there are plenty of other places where that point of view is the norm and I would rather they did not do it here. Are we not to have even the very few places we do where we are free of plastic-boat owners telling us what fools we are for owning wooden boats, and how they, hallelujah, have seen the light? I can get that in any harbourside pub or just walking along the dock, thanks.

In another thread begun only recently we were commenting on the tragedy of wooden boats being broken up for want of owners, and looky-here, in this thread we have plastic boat owners telling people the last thing they should do is buy a wooden boat. Am I the only one who sees a certain hypocrisy here?

 

[misty56]

[ QUOTE ]
Before this wood vs GRP discussion turns nasty, I should point out you can also get steel and aluminum versions of classic yachts too :0)

The point is, all hull materials are in someway better and in someway flawed, best to choose the one you understand, feel comfortable working with, and ultimately repair. - And then choose the one you like the look of best?

[/ QUOTE ]

All true, but, being similarly mischievous, would the ally/tin/ferro/plastic replicas be classics without the original wooden versions?

 

[yachtShoestring]

Sorry if that came over as mischievous, but exactly what is a classic, surely should be personal preference ? Not every good design started in wood.
:0)

 

[misty56]

[ QUOTE ]
it has taken over 40 years to find a GRP boat I am really comfortable with - I really should have bought one when I first saw and fell in love with them at the LIBS back in the 60's,

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for making my point. If you really want plastic, buy plastic.

Maybe you're one of those who refuses to be seen out in a boat anything less than 100% concours, which is fine.....But that level of finish is not necessary to go sailing. Ship and gear have to be safe and sound, but the rest is just cosmetic, you know.

 

[MasterofHera]

Now now stop throwing your rattles out of the prams.

 

[misty56]

LOL I was picking up on the fact that you had used the phrase "versions of," implying that classics begin as wooden designs.

I'm not sure even I would agree with that premise; I was just ringing your bell.

I have seen enough shoeboxes made of wood (usually plywood) to happily agree that not all wooden boats count as classics.

As to "What is a classic?" I am afraid that will have to wait till the paying work is out of the way......

 

[misty56]

--

 

[pyrojames]

I only do wood, but would hate to see GRP boat owners, either with a classic GRP boat, or with an AWB but aspiring to a classic, being turned away by wood snobs.

IMHO, owning a classic, is about caring for a boat in which you take pride and care in its appearance, consider it beautiful in its own right, and do not feel that it is just a vehicle to get you on the water, or to go sailing.

 

[ValleyForge]

Folkboats are lovely boats, the prettiest by far is the original nordic design (low coachroof) but wooden ones are rare in the UK. The Danish GRP nordics are true beauties but a bit dear. About £15k last time I looked for an old one. There are quite a few similar Folkboat-inspired designs like Folksongs, Varnes etc. which can be picked up relatively cheaply - but they don't look as nice & don't have that lovely wooden feel and smell.

If you want perfection - then it will cost an arm & a leg. If you are happy to own a leaky but pretty bucket that might sink one day (60's eastern Europe glue) - It can be had for literally pence. (sometimes you see free to a good home ...).

Absolute beauty to sail bye the bye - think 50's classic sports car rather than 80's hot hatch. Get one with an outboard - those with old inboards are likely to be err troublesome ?

Go on, give it a go. At the worst you'll have plenty of firewood. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[chrishelen]

When you say shoeboxes made of ply are you refering to the Maurice Griffiths designed Eventide, Wild duck,Waterwitch,class of boats,have you ever heard of Maurice Griffths.and do you realise marine ply is stronger than wood planks for boat building.

 

[misty56]

A. I have owned several ply boats, none of which were shoeboxes. In fact my first boat was a Robert Tucker Silhouette which despite being amateur-built and ply, was a great wee boat and I still have fond memories of her.

B. I am well aware of Maurice Griffiths. I think the Eventide is a great boat, and I'm sure the rest of his stable is too.

C. It's a simple fact: ply made it possible for amateurs to build boats that would float. They were built in their thousands in the boating boom of the fifties and sixties. There are some great ply boats, there are some dogs. It all depends on who designed them and who built them. However most carvel and clinker boats are professionally designed and built by skilled craftsman. This tends to preclude the woofers.

D. I disagree that "ply is stronger than planks for boat building." Ply is indeed very useful stuff. It resists certain types of deformation very well and allows for much simpler construction methods but it is not "stronger than" solid timber.

E. None of the above alters the plain fact that I have seen some right shoeboxes made out of plywood.

 

[Roach1948]

I think when you get the wood bug you will know it.

When I was looking around for my first yacht I was sure that GRP was the sensible way to go. I was looking at Pandora's, Corribee's, Plastic FB (expensive) and |Contessa's and in the end I settled on a 22ft 1940's Dallimore that needed a complete restoration! I was totally smitten.

I spent a LOT of time DIYing and very little time sailing for a few years, but I have to say I caught the bug and I love sailing her and working on her. Modifications are easier to make on a wooden boat, the interior just smells lovely, and now that I have her in working order she is easy to maintain. If I do it again and upgrade, I will take the advice that others' have said, and that is get a good one and keep ontop of the maintenance! The restoration has enabled me to learn a lot about wooden boats from zero knowledge, so it was a valuable process in that respect.

 

[doug748]

[ QUOTE ]
There are quite a few similar Folkboat-inspired designs like Folksongs, Varnes etc

[/ QUOTE ]
.....and an honourable mention for the best of the lot, sails like a train in all conditions, strong, more bonny than a Contessa, not an ugly line in the boat - afloat or ashore. By the hand of the master, I give you the International Folkboat.

 

[alec]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest you read my first post, which was the subject of a strongly negative response, before criticising my reply to that response.

If you do bother to read that first post, you will see that I made it clear that wooden boats are not for everyone, but if you have a passion for them, then nothing else will do. To which I was treated to the usual plastic-boat-owner blah-de-blah about how much trouble wooden boats are and deliberately suggesting that those who own them are not sailors but woodworking enthusiasts. I suggest they ask that of Don Street, for one.

I do not have any view on who should participate on this forum, plastic, steel, wood, ferro, ally or no boat at all! I do not personally consider that a production-line plastic boat can be called a classic, but that's a different issue. I do, however, very firmly take the view that if plastic-boat owners want to run down, have a go or be negative about wooden boats, there are plenty of other places where that point of view is the norm and I would rather they did not do it here. Are we not to have even the very few places we do where we are free of plastic-boat owners telling us what fools we are for owning wooden boats, and how they, hallelujah, have seen the light? I can get that in any harbourside pub or just walking along the dock, thanks.

In another thread begun only recently we were commenting on the tragedy of wooden boats being broken up for want of owners, and looky-here, in this thread we have plastic boat owners telling people the last thing they should do is buy a wooden boat. Am I the only one who sees a certain hypocrisy here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to say I even felt your first post offensive - may I quote " Upturned bath on top " . Reading this and your other posts only proves to me, and I am sure many others ,that this type of forum is clearly only a platform for airing your own particular prejudices rather than joining in or being part of the whole that most people seem to.

I do not dislike you in any way. I'am sure that if I had lived your own life experiences I would no doubt have ended up the same. Want I am interested in is how you arrived at this point ? Is it because you keep receiving negative comments about your own personal choices ? It seems to me that you clearly feel threatened in some way and life is frightening you somewhere.

In my experience as a sailor, I have only experienced positive responses to wooden boats. Most love to see them not only for the look and feel of wood but for the lovely lines. So I very much doubt that this is your problem.

What I do feel, based on my own experience , and this is only a theory , is that many wooden boatowners dislike modern living intensely . They harp for a previous golden age of living that is a myth but serves as a convenient excuse for disliking many so called modern things. And we of course, the rest, us, are the visible problem . We prove this by owning a modern floating caravan , and the word plastic fits in very nicely.

Many wooden boat owners, again in my own experience, own older cars, dislike credit cards, etc etc I could go on . I have spent time among Old Gaffer's and this is a general theme. I even attended a sing song ( all acoustic of course) that included a song worded 'white boats' highly detrimental to GRP boats. If only they meant this in fun !

Yes, for me , it has very little to do with boats but the rest of us are just convenient whipping posts for the cards that have been dealt to you- and others.

Being with wood makes you feel secure. This is why spending time with a wooden boat is what counts. You can turn the light off for a while. Spending years being out of the water, or even never going in the water does not really come into it.

Why do you feel that only you feel this way ? What about the rest of us ? Don't you think we feel like this sometimes ? Do you think that we are enjoying everything about today ?

I sincerely hope that you will at least consider some of the points made and appreciate that we have feelings too.

 

[Tranona]

This assumes liking and appreciating both is mutually exclusive. I own a wooden boat - had it for the last 28 years and hope that my children inherit it. Also have a Bavaria (shock horror!). Why? because both I and SWMBO love spending part of our time in the Eastern Med and it is perfect for the job. But then we also own a Morgan, cos we love it, particularly tooling around the Dorset lanes of a summers afternoon and evening. But we both have modern Fords for the boring bits of getting to work and travelling to see the grandchildren.

Time and place for everything, helped of course with the wherewithall to support ones preferences!

 

[pendlecats]

I have to say, from my experience growing up, sailing with my grandfather on his Folk boat.
Which had a varnished carvel hull and every brass polished
The result of every year, attention to detail, rubbing, varnishing, calking.... over a four month period

- the resulting year a brilliant floating piece of furniture, this is mainly why I sail now /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Totally jealous of those that commit the time.

Wish I knew if his old boat is still sailing?
Sadly, I can’t spare the commitment so GRP for me.

 

[ValleyForge]

Absolutely. See Clicky

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Simon_and_Tanja]

Fascinated to see this thread has gone on so long without anyone mentioning a brilliant Folkboat inspired British design, so here goes... Consider a Stella. There are several, well maintained examples for sale currently (www.stellasail.org.uk). A little larger and more comfortable but with similar lines and handling. Bizarrely good value. You will certainly get the wooden boat experience. Maintenance is a chore, a manageable chore ... but the sailing second to none - give me a long keel and the clinker chuckle over a watertight hull any day! I learnt to sail among the Nordic folkboats on the Limfjord but now love my Stella to bits. (Have to keep saying this to myself whilst antifouling in the snow!)

 

[misty56]

Tell me, what kind of fantasy world do you occupy? You know nothing about me and you proceed to insult me with offensive ad-hominem abuse and presumptions about me and how I live my life, based on nothing more than your own prejudices.

Pay attention to the following: you have lost the argument when you resort to personal smears.

And that is the end of that.