Fletcher Arrowbolt 21 - Project (70's/80's?)

[rafiki_]

hm,

the equivalent would be to prop the engine upside down and then lower the hull over it also upside down



Looks like you have some more work in front of you there, just like myself

cheers

V.

Vas, I think the engine was lifted so far, then the bow lifted to drop the transom under the engine, then the boat pulled fwd to clear the engine?

 

[Feneris]

I'm enjoying reading about this project, good skills. I worked indoors on mine, daily for 3 months. I found it hard to keep working when the workshop was cold, full credit to you for doing all this outside!

 

[rbcoomer]

Vas, I think the engine was lifted so far, then the bow lifted to drop the transom under the engine, then the boat pulled fwd to clear the engine?

Yes, that's it. I think Vas was referring to lifting the mini over the engine however!

A friend & I did similar with an old Estate he had when I was younger - we put it on ramps which were on a breeze block 'track'. When we tried to roll out the engine on our makeshift trolley however, we discovered a small miscalculation on height (forgot to factor in the trolley height IIRC). We thus has a dilemma how to extract the old engine from under the car as a) had we tried to roll it back it would only get lower & b) how would we then roll it back up onto the ramp! The eventual solution was a bunch of mates to lift the front up... The naivety of youth eh?

 

[rbcoomer]

I'm enjoying reading about this project, good skills. I worked indoors on mine, daily for 3 months. I found it hard to keep working when the workshop was cold, full credit to you for doing all this outside!

Thanks for the encouragement - not so sure about the 'skills' as this is very much a first for me! It's a kind of 'learn as you go' project. I'm not one to get put off however and the more challenging the task, the more rewarding it is - provided it gets finished that is...

I enjoyed your Sunseeker thread - how are you getting on now that she's on the water? I considered a few of the S20's a couple of years back as there seemed to be a flurry of them on eBay at the time. Perhaps when I've finished the Arrowbolt...

 

[Feneris]

I'm really pleased with mine, but there's still more to do. I often look on ebay to see what's out there, and there are some real wrecks of S20s! I don't know what people do to them!

My next 2 tasks are to recover the 2 seats, and make a tonnau cover. I'm going to tidy up the cabin, I'm not pleased with the joins in the carpet, plan is to cover a couple of areas with vinyl.

Of course, now she's in the water, my motivation to do anthing is quite low. I've also realised there's no financial reward for your time. If I sell her, I'll hopefully cover the cost of materials but not a penny more. Kind of puts me off putting a lot of effort into the bimini cover, I doubt I'd even get the cost of the parts back.

I need to make a decision as to how long I think I'll own her. Problem is, I quite like projects and fancy a yacht next......

 

[rbcoomer]

Yes indeed - one or two of the 'wrecks' caught my eye. I don't mind a wreck if it's sold as such and priced realistically, but some that I saw were 'optimistic' to say the least! I don't think you can ever expect to recover any labour costs and TBH I see that as more hobby than anything. Covering the material costs should be doable if you buy carefully and don't go too mad on spec's.

I have a more long term view for ours and will be aiming for a slightly different end result. Nothing too ambitious, but as we hope to use all year, heating and optimal use of space are prime objectives. If all goes as planned we'll finish with more of a trailable 'pocket cruiser' than pure speedboat. Whilst she might seem a bit small for this, I'm working on the basis that her raw pace when needed will compensate this by allowing us to out-run deteriorating weather. The SW coastline has lots of bolt-holes and regional cruising/exploration is our prime objective - mostly a day or two at a time - hence keeping to a sensible size for a trailer! I also wanted to minimise cost by keeping at home rather than on a mooring/berth etc.

 

[Feneris]

That's pretty much what I'm doing with mine, although this summer it's on a mooring in Falmouth.

I bought a small spare outboard, in case the main engine (being 40yrs old) fails out at sea. My aim is to custom make a support for it, so that it can live permanently out of the way, inside the engine bay. If required I'll lift it into place for use. If you plan on the same, it might be worth looking at this earlier, now you've got the best access you'll ever have!

 

[rbcoomer]

Redesigns/Mods

That's pretty much what I'm doing with mine, although this summer it's on a mooring in Falmouth.

I bought a small spare outboard, in case the main engine (being 40yrs old) fails out at sea. My aim is to custom make a support for it, so that it can live permanently out of the way, inside the engine bay. If required I'll lift it into place for use. If you plan on the same, it might be worth looking at this earlier, now you've got the best access you'll ever have!

Yes, I have given that some thought. However, I have a growing list of modifications.

I'd like to retain a swim platform as can be seen in the earlier pictures, albeit modernised slightly by replacing the open plank 'deck' with teak or teak effect and shaped to 'wrap' around the stern - more like newer designs. This will mean any o/b bracket will need to remove easily, but could possibly utilise the same frame? For an auxiliary to be effective I think I'm probably going to need 5/6hp or perhaps a little more? (And thus associated weight!)

There were originally two storage 'pockets' either side of the engine bay with buoyancy foam below. I'd like to improve the use of these sections a little and current thinking is one side for auxiliary storage and the other for batteries/diesel heater. Weight distribution is also a factor and if possible I'd like to avoid (at least initially) the need for trim tabs to gain stern lift/balance.

Unlike most other Arrowbolts that I've seen with level floors, the centre floor section of this one (see early thread pictures) was lowered. This has some headroom benefits with the covers up and also a lower centre of gravity, but also raises the possibility of a level floor with spacious storage below... Given that I need to find space for a diesel tank (main engine is petrol) and storage for things like fenders etc this section might be useful too?

There was previously a large amount of 'dead space' in the side sections and one of the ideas I'm toying with is creating some structure to this by fabricating open storage pockets here of varying sizes and inter-spacing these with closed buoyancy sections (a sort of infill). By shifting the buoyancy into the sides, I can theoretically deepen the rear storage areas by a few inches without any overall loss of positive buoyancy. This it turn might create a space for a custom-made flat diesel tank beneath the battery bay/heater? The side storage pockets in the main cockpit area could be concealed by means of curtains - either vinyl or another waterproof fabric - sufficient to stop things falling out during 'normal' use.

Unlike later versions, the cuddy currently has no windows and the hatch is GRP not clear, but I have sourced a pair of portholes for the midships end of the cuddy. The cuddy itself has been stripped bare - reluctant move, but necessary due to wet buoyancy foam beneath, removal of stringers and in order to fabricate an anchor locker. The cuddy itself is essentially a small, blank canvas at the moment.

I'm planning to fabricate a new GRP console to integrate existing/new gauges etc, chart-plotter, VHF and possibly a touchscreen linked to a single-board solid state PC... I have a Lowrance Elite 5 that I purchased to use between both boats, but ideally I'd run this as a full-screen sonar and use PC based Navionics for charts - thus benefiting from the larger screen.

Being primarily designed as a sports boat, there is no anchor, bow roller, nor locker. Given intended coastal use (and family safety), I wouldn't consider using without an anchor, so intend to fabricate a small locker and possibly a windlass? This may seem like overkill for a boat this size, but apart from via the cuddy hatch or over the screen, there is no bow access! I'll probably be seeking some advice from the forum at this stage!

One other thing I'd like to add, but would need to be done with aesthetic 'care' would be a stainless radar arch similar to that which Fletcher used on the 'ZS' of similar era, but cost might put paid to this idea unless eBay throws up some treasure in the next 18 months or so!

 

[Feneris]

I'm obviously very new to this, so my ideas could be well out. I think you're very close to a blank canvas with this and you can do what you want. So long as the structure is strong and stiff enough, and the weight is distributed such that it sits correctly in the water, I think you can do what you want.

The positive buoyancy (foam) is only going to have an effect if the hull is full of water. So long as the boat isn't sinking, all the buoyancy is provided by the hull displacing the water beneath it, so where you put any positive buoyancy (foam) doesn't matter. If you want to be certain it can't fully sink, establish the weight of the boat, and ensure you have at least 1 cubic meter of foam per tonne of boat, + some extra. Fuel in the tank is only around 73% the weight of water, so can be removed from the weight calculation. I've no idea what the best type of foam is, I'm sure google will help there.

In the cuddy, I've got a clear hatch, which I really like. I'm sure ebay will yield one!

In the bow I've got a chain locker. My anchor sits on deck, tied down. It doesn't seem to move or bounce at all, even at speed. No windlass and I think no need. If you want an anchor for safety reasons, so long is it's onboard and is tied to something strong on the bow before dropping it, I don't think you need a dedicated locker for the wet rope when you pull it up (Unless you think you'll use it regularly of course!). If you can't climb over to the bow, maybe a rope from the front, secured within reach further back??

In terms of the auxilliary engine mounting, my feeling was that if the bathing platform is strong enough to stand on, it's strong enough to take a small outboard. I'm sure regular use could throw up issues with vibration losening screws, but it's for emergencies. I've not used mine yet, but I've been assured it's plenty powerful enough for her. This advice came from a friend with a bigger, and higher boat than mine, with just a 4hp spare.

 

[rbcoomer]

Engine/drive alignment thoughts...

Ok, it's been a long time and apologies for lack of updates - lots of reasons but essentially all resulted in not much progress!

Starting to to tool up for the next stage after remainder of stern is cleaned up - some remodeling of bow (create anchor locker), cutouts for cuddy portholes and then flip the hull and paint! I'm currently pondering a 7M x 3M carport which whilst it will siphon around £800 from project funds, will at least allow me to make progress when raining - something quite important when you don't get that many free days.

Anyway, I'm now on the last stage of cutting out. The engine is out and transom shield, bathing platform and most fittings now removed. I've not rushed as each stage was photographed and deconstructed rather than ripped out so most can be reused or recreated to original spec where required.

Finally starting to resume progress now that the precipitation has eased and I'm now about to remove transom and engine bearers. I removed the bell housing and transom shield yesterday along with the inner GRP skin and it occurred to me that when I refit, I will need a means to align the engine along with new engine bearers etc! I've taken loads of pictures at every stage, but given most of the fixed reference points are themselves being removed, not so many measurements and these would be of less value.

My plan was that once I had replaced stringers and transom, I would refit the drive and shield first to give me location and mounting points for the engine. I'm working on the premise that provided the engine is 90 degrees to the transom and level fore & aft, this will be right? The entire propulsion system is offset approx 1" to starboard. The new transom will be cut/drilled in the same place because the outer GRP skin will obviously remain and thus provide the template.

Would welcome any thoughts, tips or experiences on eventual refitting before I cut out the transom and aft floor section over the next week or two!

The pictures illustrate that the decision to remove everything wood was the right one! (the wood removed was with fingers... )

Exhaust 'U' section removed

Shield off

Worst fears confirmed:

Overview of rotten area and starting to remove tabbing:

Overview of bare transom - all to come out.

Hopefully not too long before next update this time.

 

[vas]

I was wondering if you're still on this project

an update every 9m means that I'll be retired by the time you finish (and I'm 18yrs from that! )

on a serious note, I cannot believe you are removing all this perfectly sound woodchips from the transom

hope the next update is much sooner

cheers

V.

 

[rbcoomer]

I was wondering if you're still on this project

an update every 9m means that I'll be retired by the time you finish (and I'm 18yrs from that! )

on a serious note, I cannot believe you are removing all this perfectly sound woodchips from the transom

hope the next update is much sooner

cheers

V.

Hi Vas,

Yes, I probably deserved that

Although I originally said I wasn't in a hurry, I did think I'd get more time & funds than has proved the case so far. It's been an expensive year however and given limited budget, other things have unfortunately taken priority - change of car, replacing the outboard on the 14' just for starters. I'm looking at some time off over the summer holidays to minimise childcare costs, so should see some progress. Otherwise, another few years and my son will be able to take over and I'll be the one retiring!

Best regards,

Robin

P.S. If you want the woodchips, I'll happily post as they really have no weight at all...

 

[Robg71]

Come on Robin, get your finger out

 

[rbcoomer]

Come on Robin, get your finger out

Very good!

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Looking forward to more reporting and more pictures.

Are you replacing the transom with marine ply?

 

[rbcoomer]

Looking forward to more reporting and more pictures.

Are you replacing the transom with marine ply?

Hi Rum_Pirate,

The current plan is to use sheets of 12mm or 18mm marine ply, treating each layer with CPES before 'gluing' together with resin and then over-painting with resin/chopped strand mix and then once tabbed in place, a resin/csm layer or two over the lot. Any holes drilled will be re-treated with the CPES.

I can't justify/afford the cost of Epoxy if I want to finish in the next 10 years so will be using CPES as a both a penetrating preservative & bonding layer and polyester resin for the tabbing and overlay. I've done some tests on some old ply and some of the GRP I cut out - so far the bond is good and I'm confident that with ample preparation and cleaning with acetone the bond will be permanent! My first experiment failed but it was only a small section and the ply layers separated not the ply from the grp, so I repeated with a bigger bit of ply!

Some more cutting out this weekend and then looking at inverting the hull to prepare and paint. I hadn't originally planned on painting, but ability to get a good finish is probably greater with paint than a new gel-coat - as well as the cost implications! Although I've not done yet, I'm planning on getting a 25L compressor and using a 2 pack paint like Jotun Hardtop XP or similar. It makes sense to do this whilst the hull is at it's lightest - or at least that's my thinking!

Will aim to press on a bit faster this summer too...

Regards,

Robin

 

[rbcoomer]

Ok, it's been a long while and I should confess that the main reason is lack of progress and thus little to report. A few have asked how things are progressing however so as we're just past 25 months an update seems appropriate - if only to reassure that I've not abandoned the project and things should start moving again now! I'm wrestling with flu-like bug currently so utilising a few minutes quiet to update thread...

Why so little progress? Well two factors - time and funds. Time due to lots of other commitments that seem to absorb time, plus a full-time job and two part time... The next 12 months will hopefully get the bulk of the structural work done if winter temperatures permit. (Not quite as cooperative weather-wise as it is for Vas. ) Funds partly because I have a very limited 'boat fund' and, not wanting to be boatless, have had to invest more in the 14' to get on the water, maintain enthusiasm for SWMBO and try and improve reliability/seaworthiness. (Replaced 30hp outboard with a 50hp, fitted smart tabs and a few other jobs) I also had to replace car earlier this year so another dent in funds...

So where am I up to? The hull is now pretty much bare - with engine, drive, floor, stringers, engine bearers and transom now removed. I have stocked up CPES, flowcoat, buoyancy foam and fibre matting, resin etc. Plus I've gathered together some of the parts for overhauling the drive and various other odds and ends as I've come across bargains in the form of parts, fixings etc. I have the drive apart on the workbench in the process of cleaning, overhaul, repainting etc and various boxes of stuff 'queued' for similar treatment - transom sheild, engine ancillaries etc. I have the weekend completely free - the first for about 3 months - and the plan was to collect a few sheets of marine ply (transom & bulkheads, floor etc) and some Iroko timbers that will form the new stringers. Reinstating the transom and floor will be the next stage. The ply is ordered (£500 ) but the Iroko has proved more problematic in that local timber merchant can't source lengths over 4.2M at the moment. I need 2 @ 4M x 150mm x 25mm and 2 @ 4.8M x 230mm x 25mm. I enquired as to Meranti or Sapele as alternatives but again limited on length it seems - they could supply Kiln Dried Oak, but at £570 for 4 planks it seemed to cause some kind of adverse involuntry wallet seizure... Worst case scenario is I form the stringers from 2 bonded layers of ply - scarfing offset joints to minimise any weakness. (I'm not so keen of this route so still hunting for Iroko.)

A couple of quick pics from Aug/Sept to show the current state. Much the same now except a few hours of grinding away the transom back to clean GRP...

Thus the objective - step 1 - over this winter:

Construct and install new transom - 4 x 12mm marine ply with each layer treated with CPES and boned with resin. Replace stringers and then cabin sole - again treated with CPES and resin coated prior to installation and then encapsulated. I plan to retain the two level floor - i.e. higher at the sides with a lower central walkway. Inside the deepest part of the raised sections I will run a heating duct with outlets into the lower central section and through into the cuddy. I plan to fit a 3/4kw diesel heater and tank in the rear port quadrent which will feed hot air through this duct. (UK all year round use is intended!) As before, the remainder of the void will be filled with buoyancy foam and sealed/glassed over with new sole. This time however, instead of carpet/rubber mat, I aim to flowcoat and use a fake teak or other floor covering. New bulkhead between engine bay and cabin - much the same design as original, but with a removable centre section down to approx 2/3rds for easy engine access. (No need to go lower as fuel tank will obstruct lower access). This will run to the keel with a small removeable (from engine side) panel for bilge. I plan to install a secondary bilge pump foward of the bulkhead to serve the cabin area bilge and thus 'seal' the engine bay. The removable panel will be waterproof, but when removed will allow water from the entire bilge area to drain back to the bung - i.e. when on the hard/trailer etc.

The stern quadrants previously had compartments either side of the engine bay formed from ply and this will be replicated with new. Again however, I plan to flowcoat this and glass in the lower level with buoyancy foam (as before but sealed). The ultimate aim is to use the port side for batteries and diesel heating and the starboard side for auxiliary outboard storage (I have a 12hp donated by a friend) and fenders, warps etc.

I have a couple of small portholes for the cuddy and the next step after the floor will be fitting these and cutting/fabricating an anchor locker. There was no anchor locker in the original design, but given our use will be coastal cruising I feel not to implement one would be a mistake? Undecided on a windlass as although a costly addition, there's no direct access to the bow other than via cuddy hatch so I feel this may be a worthwhile extra cost for single handing. I'll look to mount anchor above deck via a bow roller & retaining pin etc rather than in the locker itself (space limitation).

The next step will be to re-spray the hull and after much deliberation I have concluded that cost and my novice ability both favour a two-pack marine paint (Probably Jotun Hardtop XP) over gel-coat. The boat has been painted before anyway and in addition some of the gel coat has been damaged back to the fibreglass so repairing this first and getting a smooth base will be key to my success or failure on the paint. I'm intending to flip the hull over for the first stage of this (up to the rubbing strip which I'll obviously remove) and then spray the topsides as a stage two when hull is back up the right way! This will probably take me into early spring - at which point there will be a likely delay as time gets absorbed with preparing for the 2014 SWFBR... If the weather is too cold for curing (resin, paint etc) then I anticipate the schedule will start slipping, but in between other things I am hoping to cover the entire area at the side of the house with a 'twinwall' polycarb roofed car port. This would provide a dry working area and raise the ambient temperature by a few degrees (especially if I sheet the ends when working) - but the downside is it will drain another £700-800 of cash flow from the project...

Looking further ahead for the spring/summer:

Refitting engine and drive will be priority for the spring along with finishing main bulkhead, rewiring, a new GRP/Flowcoat console and the cuddy interior - to include a porta-loo. The plan for the console is to centre around a 15 or 17" touchscreen which will link back to a solid state PC in the cuddy (I have a garage full of suitable scrap on that front!). Initially this will be used for maps and music, but I have plans to take some other feeds and digitise too - fuel, revs, trim, speed etc so I can not only display, but start to collect comprehensive real-time trip data. (Possibly even a play with Raspberry Pi over the winter? ) Then along with some lumishores, I'd like to look at some live HD webcam feeds underwater at the stern - both covering the drive and downwards - as well as a couple of above water feeds from the radar arch.

I'm currently undecided whether I refit the existing 5.0L or opt for a new 5.7L vortec (advanced base) from Repower Marine. The latter is my preferred route, but cost will be the issue and probably the deciding factor as I'll probably have to finance this and borrowing to fund a hobby goes against the grain TBH. I'm led to believe that the 5.7 is no more thirsty than the 5.0 at low speed / slow cruising so would seem to make sense if I'm going to invest in a new engine? (not forgetting an extra 100hp from where I am now! )

cont...

 

[rbcoomer]

...cont

Winter 2014 plans:

A 'bare boat' test run towards the end of the summer is possible depending on how things pan out, but in all probability I'll just press on with the more asthetic aspects. There are a few unknowns making me consider a dry run - propping, trim tabs/smart tabs and general 'balance' - so I'd quite like to trial before final fit out in order to allow for some revision of layout. Winter will mostly be about re-upholstering and refitting seats, re-trimming and so on. This will probably take a while as I aim to do myself! I also want to fit a stainless radar arch similar to that used briefly on the Fletcher ZS and this is almost certainly going to have to be custom made - and thus expensive. Although not original, not only will this give me better fitting point for comms (broadband radar is a possiblity), but will also enable fitting of a better 2-stage cover - which I expect to make good use of during the otherwise hit and miss weather here! As part of the re-trimming, I aim to build in additional buoyancy into the gunwhales, behind and around storage pockets. This will be achieved using sheets of closed cell polyurathane foam which I can cut to fit and layer as needed rather than the 'mix and pour' expanding foam used under the floors and so on. Covers will be outsourced once I have completed the arch etc. I have originals, but parts of the frame are missing and covers well past their best so would have to start from scratch even without the radar arch. Finally, for the swim deck I'm looking to use the existing stainless frame to support a full width wrap-around deck. Current thinking is to form a (6mm?) ply skinned, foam cored (20mm?) sandwich which will be encased in fibreglass, flowcoated, sprayed to match the hull and then inlaid or topped with teak laminate. I've got more thinking to do on this - whilst I know what I'd like to achieve, the inlay is likely to cause puddling under the teak and this will be hard to clean/dry. An edge-to-edge teak layer maybe the answer...

I'll try and update with some drawings to expand on the various concepts in the next few weeks, but at the moment my scanner is in the caravan 'office' and neighbours are having a new garage built so access is difficult and muddy!

The end result will be perhaps less raw speedboat and something that doubles between that and a compact inshore cruiser. I wanted something that will enable us to venture further afield to explore but that was still an easy launch and recover. The maximum I can easily store at home is probably 22'. This is within that and whilst other commitments mean we are unlikely to overnight, we would probably be able to if we chose to. More importantly, we can make a dash for home if we have to and I'll be more than content to achieve a stable top speed of 40-45kts - which I think is achievable...

Will see what resumption of work this weekend can achieve - bug and weather permitting!

 

[NoviceRod]

Robin - good luck, should keep you occupied this winter!!

 

[rbcoomer]

Robin - good luck, should keep you occupied this winter!!

Thanks Rod - indeed it will!

Vas asked for some pics of preparations, so have added a few hurried ones below!

Marine ply has arrived and although it looks like I've overestimated, I think probably not by much!

Finally sourced Iroko from Robbins in Bristol so that should be here by next weekend...

Can't picture everything as some is 'stashed' - garage space is a bit constrained...

...even garage loft space has been filled with tank, seats, trim, parts etc...

Even after all the rain, the good news is that inside my 'stepladder wrap' - the patient is finally dry!

More soon if I can find enough space to cut & prepare the ply out of the rain! (Perhaps I should emigrate to Volos for the wall-to-wall sunshine... ? )

This was what I have in mind for radar arch...