First boat, what to buy?

[Koyukano]

Hi guys, first post! i've done a couple of hours in a dinghy and have booked myself onto an RYA level 1 sailing course in a couple of weeks. The plan is to do as much sailing this year before the season ends and then try to maybe a buy a boat next year after probably quite a bit more sailing next year also. I will do a coastal skipper course and VHF course also next year before purchasing a boat.

I've had a real interest in boats for a long time but never lived near the sea and although I moved to north-east (tyne and wear) a couple of years ago I've had a busy few years so not had much time up until now. I will try get on as many boats as possible to see what i like, but having spent weeks looking at used sailboats non-stop i like the look of......don't shoot me for this but a Westerly Centaur, I love the accommodation and I have a little lad (only 18months) but in a few years time when I am a lot more experienced myself I would like to be able to take him out in calm weather and want to feel as though the boat is seaworthy which I have read centaurs are seaworthy boats with quite dry cockpits.

Having said all that, I do want the boat to be fairly fun to sail. Is there any other boats people recommend that is maybe a little faster than a centaur but still with decent accommodation. My budget would be around £5-10k. Looking for a fairly small boat as I would like to eventually be able to use it singlehanded, say 23-26ft in length. I've read a fair bit about hunter sonata's and from what I have read seem to be better performers than a centaur? Also quite like the look of leisure 23SL version, how is the performance for the leisure?

I'd like to meet some local boat owners and perhaps crew for them to gain some experience, hopefully doing the RYA course at hartlepool and following this going training there I will get to meet some boat owners. Cannot wait to get started just quite sad the season is coming to an end so soon!

Sorry for the long post. Any advice would be much appreciated and thanks for taking the time to read this!

Regards

Peter

 

[gertha]

When I was young we had a Centaur, when I came of age I bought a Dehler 25, know idea what they sell for today.
The Centaur could have put me off sailing for life, as they do not sail.
The Dehler did not scare my young family; but they have moved far from home so you can read into this what you like.
Either way with a young family I would buy a boat with a few thrills not a slow motion boat.
Dragonfly 25 is a cute little tri. as another idea

Simon

 

[Seajet]

My advice would be to latch onto a club - you shouldn't have to join - and crew on every different boat you can, there are usually owners seeking crew, often for company more than sailing experience.

This would give you invaluable knowledge when you come to look for your own boat.

One like in my signature below may be worth considering then !

 

[mrming]

When you do get to the purchase, go as big as you can afford / feel you can manage. You'll find the extra space well worth it.

Be prepared to be flexible on boat model and buy on condition - try to find a boat where someone else has spent all the money already as you never get that back when you sell. Interiors are hard to put right so make sure it's in good nick. Watch out for old / poorly maintained diesel engines, and out of date electronics.

In terms of the specific boats you mention the Centaur is very safe but not the quickest. The Sonata is a one design that is raced and I've never seen one where the interior was still in good condition (although I'm sure there must be one or two about). It is however a very nice boat to sail with the slight quirk that it doesn't surf downwind so it digs a hole in the water a bit when it's breezy. No idea how the Leisure 23 sails but it's a spacious boat for it's size.

I would definitely look at the 27ish foot size if you can stretch to it.

 

[bitbaltic]

For boats (like the centaur) with inboard engines, in your price bracket, buy the best engine you can find irrespective of what boat is wrapped around it.

That's far and away the best strategy you can have.

 

[fredrussell]

In the grand YBW tradition of people recommending their own boat to others, have a look at Super Seal 26's. One near me with inboard and ready to go for sub £10k, so admittedly at the upper end of your budget. Lovely boats to sail and good accommodation.

 

[Boh999]

Maxi 77. Really cheap and sturdy. + get to sail her home from Sweden, fun trip. Probably a few availabe closer to you as well

Albin Vega - they are giving them away. People have crossed the Atlantic with them...26 ft!

http://www.majasventure.com/cms/

Got this idea. Our boat is too deep to sail most of the the European channels. Buy an Albin Vega for approx 1-2K. (You'll get a good one!). Toss the mast. Go down the channels through Germany and France to the Mediterrean Sea. Once there, give it to somebody. Fly home.

Perfect summer vacation?

 

[Koyukano]

Wow, thanks for all the advice guys. I do like the idea of having a 26-27 just financially I thought it would be easier and a lot cheaper to maintain a smaller boat. I like the idea of sailing singledhanded whenever i like, so that was also another consideration as to why I was thinking of going for a boat around 23-25ft. I love the look of a Gib Sea 76 or 77 (the newer one) and i've found a few of them around 10k. That anderson 22 looks good too Seajet, has pretty much the accommodation i'm after too.

I'll definitely try crew as much as I can. If anyone lives in the northeast i'm here! I've literally been sat reading sailing books for the last 2 days straight, think i'll be dreaming of sailing at least!

Thanks again guys, further recommendations advice welcome!

Peter

 

[aquaplane]

Centaurs do sail.

Alternatives, Jeanneau Fantasia, Bene 24, or 26, Seal as said earlier. Jaguar 25 or 27 if you can afford. Leisure 27 would be good. Sadler 25 or 26. Jeanneau Tonic. There are so many......

 

[elton]

I'm putting my Westerly Pageant up for sale shortly. It would definitely suit a first timer, plus it's got about the same headroom as a Centaur (I had one). Nice inboard engine, and it's berthed in Hartlepool. PM if you'd like to look her over.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

It's a bit like buying a car for £1000 - work out your budget is and then see what's out there. Condition is everything, especially where engines are concerned - new rigging and sails can be big ticket items too though. A £10K boat with new engine, electronics, rigging, sails, upholstery, fenders and warps included and just copper-coated is much cheaper than a £5K boat that needs all those doing (and you can sail it straight away). Don't forget to budget for things like foul-weather gear, life-jackets, handheld, etc. if needed.

Fun-to-sail is a good description but doesn't equate directly with speed. Whilst fast boats are often better handling too speed is relative when it comes to a 23 ft waterline and the only way the boat that size will be fast is by keeping the weight ultra-low. I wouldn't recommend that for a first boat or for a cruising boat even with your dinghy background. Absolutely nothing wrong with a Centaur and they seem to be getting more sensibly priced too.

 

[Seajet]

My 22' LOA 19'3" LWL job manages consistently high passage times - inc once averaging 7 knots across the Channel in moderate conditions - when planning a cruise in company with a friend's Centaur ( a design I like a lot ) he came for a sail on mine and commented " Jesus, I'll never keep up with this ! " - she is completely kitted out for cruising and not a light boat to start with, it's all in the design.

 

[{151760}]

For boats (like the centaur) with inboard engines, in your price bracket, buy the best engine you can find irrespective of what boat is wrapped around it.

That's far and away the best strategy you can have.

I can't agree with this at all. If you buy a wreck with a new engine, it's still a wreck. New standing and running rigging and canvas will cost several thousands to replace, then there's things like chain plates, keel bolts, gas fittings, fuel and water tanks, not to mention electronics. It's definitely a good idea to buy a young engine, but the rest of the boat should not be ignored.
It's a buyers market out there; there are many hundreds of suitable boats around. Be patient and get some good advice.

 

[Medway Matt]

The Sonata is a one design that is raced and I've never seen one where the interior was still in good condition (although I'm sure there must be one or two about). It is however a very nice boat to sail with the slight quirk that it doesn't surf downwind so it digs a hole in the water a bit when it's breezy.

Sonatas most definitely do surf!

When racing from the Tongue sands Tower back to the River Medway we timed how long we were on one of the waves we caught, it was 18 seconds. Fairly respectable surfing I'd say.

We'd just gybed the genoa using the kite pole so I was standing at the mast, the boat surrounded by a sea of foam and looked back to see my helm/owner, Graham, clinging to the tiller grim faced and my other crewmate, David, grinning from ear to ear with a cigar clamped between his teeth exclaiming "18 seconds! That was 18 seconds!"

That must have been 25 / 30 years ago when I was in my late teens / early twenties and I remember it like it was yesterday. So much fun! There were plenty of other waves too.

You could do a lot worse than a Sonata, although cruising one is a bit like advanced camping.

 

[bitbaltic]

I can't agree with this at all. If you buy a wreck with a new engine, it's still a wreck. New standing and running rigging and canvas will cost several thousands to replace, then there's things like chain plates, keel bolts, gas fittings, fuel and water tanks, not to mention electronics. It's definitely a good idea to buy a young engine, but the rest of the boat should not be ignored.
It's a buyers market out there; there are many hundreds of suitable boats around. Be patient and get some good advice.

Sense of humour failure there I think, the post was deliberately tongue in cheek. Being serious for a moment, of course I'm not suggesting a wreck of a boat with an excellent engine is a good buy (mainly because such things seldom exist). But the point is that the biggest ticket item in a 5-10k boat will be its 5-10k replacement-cost engine. Engine condition therefore dictates whether a boat is worth buying- or saving.

 

[ashtead]

For something different have a look at a Parker with an outboard - dont know how well they sail but they seem to be quite quick under power.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Bit of thread drift - I have sailed with my now five year old boy, and my two year old girl all their lives (third 'crew' on the way, due January!). Some useful, hard won advice on sailing with the sproggos below.

http://www.albinballad.co.uk/how-tos/earth-sail-children-five/

I bought Triola for £9k , she was up for, err, £13k I think? 30 foot is great, a safe, sea boat with displacement is great too - we always feel secure even when we are caught out in weather. Albin Ballads are hard to find as people don't really let them go - if you can find one, I'd heartily recommend!

Sailing with kids == adventure NOT a holiday. Don't let that put you off, its cracking :encouragement:

p.s. Get something with a good, reliable, inboard engine - with kids going out in that force six might be fun, but when you have titchy kiddies, you'll find more often than not you'll be going out when there is the barest breath of wind

 

[jwilson]

When I was young we had a Centaur, when I came of age I bought a Dehler 25, know idea what they sell for today.
The Centaur could have put me off sailing for life, as they do not sail. - snipped .............

Centaurs do sail quite well, but they need a bit of skill to get them to perform, and are not remotely exciting. They are though possibly amongst the most reassuringly solid boats of their size. If you are happy sailing a scaled-up version of a planing dinghy and young and flexible enough you cope with the accommodation, a Super Seal or Parker is a superb boat.

Forget a Dragonfly 25 - you almost certainly can't afford one. As others have said, look at a variety in your budget and pick the one that looks best maintained. There are plenty of 24-26 ft boats around. My suggestion for you might be to look at a Sadler 25/26/29 or a British Hunter 23/26/27. Both good compromises between performance and seaworthiness.

Look at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/classifieds/horizon-26/for-sale.htm for a Hunter, not my boat and a private ad but we ( http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/ ) sold her to her present owner and know it's a good example.

 

[STOL71]

As said above: sail on as many boats as possible and see what takes your fancy.
My only advice: don't buy a boat that is not actively being sailed and buy a boat with standing headroom.
Remember, there are more boats than buyers, so take your time.

 

[Topcat47]

As said above: sail on as many boats as possible and see what takes your fancy.
My only advice: don't buy a boat that is not actively being sailed and buy a boat with standing headroom.
Remember, there are more boats than buyers, so take your time.

+1 for standing headroom. My Nic 26 has it, a Contessa 26 doesn't. Both boats sail well and are simple to sail single handed. Sadly there are not a lot of newish 26' and under boats to choose from so you're probably going to be looking at something around the 70's 80's. Any folkboat derivative will sail well so consider the Sadler 25 & 26. There were some very lightweight 23's made and some that were heavy but good seaboats. Don't underestimate the desirability of a well founded boat that will look after you in a blow.

It has been said, with some justification that the happiest days of your life will be when you buy a boat and when you sell it. You just have to be ready to sell it.