Maxwell windlass 10 VW looks interesting (to a windlass noob)

[Tranona]

I am interested as to when you think you might use a warping drum. I had one on my SL Anchorman vertical and don't recall ever using it in the 20 years or so - although a remember barking my shin on it more than once! I used the one on my Lofrans Caymen 88 in the Med as Vyv describes. Never used it for the anchor warp as our 50m of chain was usually enough and on the rare occasion added rope was used it was easy to bring in the few metres by hand with the engine pulling the boat forward then dropping the chain onto the gypsy.

To me the most important features of a windlass are powered both ways and a radio remote - plus a good self stowing bow roller/anchor.

 

[mogmog2]

You might consider going down a size in anchor, replacing the Delta with a more efficient anchor such as a Vulcan (plenty of other choices!) and 6mm chain. A Lewmar Pro 1000 would be a good choice of windlass for a Fulmar. It does not have a drum, but TBH that is rarely used if ever. For anchoring an all chain rode of 50m with the provision to add rope if needed is more than adequate for sailing around the channel. Worth asking on the WOA site for what other Fulmar owners have fitted.

Thanks.
Yes, reviewing the whole setup is definitely worth considering. We've been happy with the Delta setup we had previously but a Rocna was my preferred option then, although the coffers wouldn't allow. However, things are a bit different now and starting from scratch makes sense.
I'm already bothering the WOA crowd always been very active there, but I asked here as this is a wider pool of knowledge , for non-Westerly specific things.
We're also, I think, on the more adventurous side of cruising - for lots of people the anchor is not even an afterthought, it just came with the boat...

 

[fredrussell]

I recently fitted a Lewmar V700 to my 31ft boat along with 7mm chain. It’s been great and has yet to prove not man enough for the job. As it’s a relatively low wattage/power windlass you can use much smaller 6mm cable to supply the power to it. I only mention it as my boat is similar size and displacement to OP’s. You may well not require a 1000w windlass.

 

[mogmog2]

I recently fitted a Lewmar V700 to my 31ft boat along with 7mm chain. It’s been great and has yet to prove not man enough for the job. As it’s a relatively low wattage/power windlass you can use much smaller 6mm cable to supply the power to it. I only mention it as my boat is similar size and displacement to OP’s. You may well not require a 1000w windlass.

Thank you. It was the warping drum that propelled me to the more powerful models. It's not available on the smaller ones. Helpful to know though that 700 is enough.

 

[noelex]

A warping drum and chain gypsy can work well for a mixed rode. The secret is making sure you have a reliable means of securing the chain rode while making the transition from rope.

This can be a simple short strop or chain stopper.

In most cases, you can hold the chain while making the transition,but in extreme conditions, you will be glad of a reliable mechanical securing mechanism. This needs to be planned in advance.

 

[Neeves]

I'd move straight to G30 6mm chain. Its sufficiently strong, its easy to retrieve by hand, it will keep weight down in the bow, take up less room than bigger chain and with a snubber you manage the snatch loads, its also cheaper. You can use a smaller motor, cheaper, and the cabling can be smaller (cheaper), and its a long cable run. Some windlass, Maxwell, are designed for use with a specific motor, say 700 watt, but will accept a smaller one, say 500 or larger say 1000 watt, same with the gypsy - might take a 6mm or a 8mm gypsy.

what's not to like?

The casing on the electric motor is mild steel - give it an extra coat of paint before installation and try to ensure the water that runs off the chain during retrieval is not running all over the motor - add a baffle, or swing the motor out of the way of the falling chain. Most windlass allow you to swing the motor during installation. Vyv protected his motor with something special, it might be on his website, he might give more detail on this thread.

If you wash your chain of mud the gal should last the life, or your life, with the yacht. As soon as you add any textile you add a constant source of dampness which will slowly eat the gal. Rope is difficult to clean, and any mud will be acidic, smell, and impossible to dry and the best remedy is to keep any textile separate from the chain. Acidic muds, those that smell, can clean any chain of gal.

Windlass sit in the worst place possible for electrical gear - right in the bow taking all the breaking seas. Planning for something to go wrong - check the ability of the windlass to be operated manually, some have no facility, and if there is a manual retrieval system - is it sensible - or is it a back breaker. Ask the retailer to demonstrate how it works - manually (or go to a boat show). If they think your request, unreasonable, buy elsewhere. Windlass are not cheap - having them work for the sale does not seem unreasonable.

The nice thing about using a sheet or halyard winch as a warping drum - the winches are commonly arranged to be easily used, you free up space to work in the bow and don't have an unnecessary trip hazard.

We never sailed in the med and in 30 years of yacht ownership never had need of a warping drum on a windlass. We did need to warp - but it was easier simply using a sheet winch.

You need a short strop, see Noelex post above, to keep the tension and any snatch loads off the windlass. A snubber does this but snubbers fail and you may need to use a strop as back up to secure the anchor when at sea, clutches fail.


When you devise a short list of windlass, list them here, and maybe owners of the same models can comment on their specific strengths and weaknesses.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

The casing on the electric motor is mild steel - give it an extra coat of paint before installation and try to ensure the water that runs off the chain during retrieval is not running all over the motor - add a baffle, or swing the motor out of the way of the falling chain. Most windlass allow you to swing the motor during installation. Vyv protected his motor with something special, it might be on his website, he might give more detail on this thread.


Jonathan

That is true for vertical axis windlasses but not for the suggested Lewmar Pro where the casing is 316 and the motor is well insulated from water even though it is on deck. While it is arguably not as robust as a Lofrans or a Maxwell - the motor on mine failed after only 300 or so operations it is at least easy and cheap to repair. A Lofrans is maybe OTT for the boat and as we know needs more preventative maintenance and the Lewmar has captured a fair share of the OEM market.

 

[vyv_cox]

A warping drum and chain gypsy can work well for a mixed rode. The secret is making sure you have a reliable means of securing the chain rode while making the transition from rope.

This can be a simple short strop or chain stopper.

In most cases, you can hold the chain while making the transition,but in extreme conditions, you will be glad of a reliable mechanical securing mechanism. This needs to be planned in advance.

With the vertical Maxwell this would be a very slow process indeed. Having wound the rope all the way in it would need to be detached from the chain, leaving that with a bare end that could be fed into the gypsy. Once through, the bitter end line would need to be attached before continuing to haul in the chain. Possible but not to be considered in tricky weather. Unnecessary if using the gypsy to haul the rope, as said, taking care to feed the splice through.

Answering Neeves' post, I wrap my carbon steel motor in Denso tape. This is a remarkable anti-corrosion product but it is most unpleasant to handle. Plastic sheet wrapped around it overcomes that problem. After 10 years of seawater splashing my motor is pristine.

 

[NormanS]

In most cases, you can hold the chain while making the transition,but in extreme conditions, you will be glad of a reliable mechanical securing mechanism. This needs to be planned in advance.

"In most cases, you can hold the chain". Really?

 

[noelex]

With the vertical Maxwell this would be a very slow process indeed. Having wound the rope all the way in it would need to be detached from the chain, leaving that with a bare end that could be fed into the gypsy. Once through, the bitter end line would need to be attached before continuing to haul in the chain. Possible but not to be considered in tricky weather. Unnecessary if using the gypsy to haul the rope, as said, taking care to feed the splice through.

It is not ideal as you note. If it is practical, all chain rode is far more preferable.

However, our second yacht came with a vertical windlass with capstan for the rope portion of the mixed chain, and the system was not as onerous as your post suggests, especially with a chainstopper to automatically grip the chain independent of the windlass. We used this system for some time before switching to all chain rode.

There is no need to detach the rope from the chain when transitioning between the rope and chain.

Answering Neeves' post, I wrap my carbon steel motor in Denso tape. This is a remarkable anti-corrosion product but it is most unpleasant to handle. Plastic sheet wrapped around it overcomes that problem. After 10 years of seawater splashing my motor is pristine.

This is an excellent solution. There are also some spray-on thick wax coatings that are very effective and a little easier to apply if access around the motor is tight.

 

[vyv_cox]

It is not ideal as you note. If it is practical, all chain rode is far more preferable.

However, our second yacht came with a vertical windlass with capstan for the rope portion of the mixed chain, and the system was not as onerous as your post suggests, especially with a chainstopper to automatically grip the chain independent of the windlass. We used this system for some time before switching to all chain rode.

I can see that with the windlass that the OP references it would not be necessary to detach the rope from the chain. With mine, and Neeves' version of the Maxwell the gypsy is completely enclosed. There is no way to haul the rope in on the drum and then continue on chain through the gypsy.

 

[dunedin]

...... If it is practical, all chain rode is far more preferable.

....

That is the key point if preparing a system for a "keeper boat", as the OP suggests.
Ideally going minimum size chain, then all chain rode plus snubber(s) to protect the windlass.
Also avoids the extra foredeck clutter of the rope drum, our windlass is only about 10cm high.

 

[vyv_cox]

That is the key point if preparing a system for a "keeper boat", as the OP suggests.
Ideally going minimum size chain, then all chain rode plus snubber(s) to protect the windlass.
Also avoids the extra foredeck clutter of the rope drum, our windlass is only about 10cm high.

Especially if intending to sail in the Mediterranean. Berthing stern-to on a mixed rode would be a nightmare.

 

[Neeves]

That is the key point if preparing a system for a "keeper boat", as the OP suggests.
Ideally going minimum size chain, then all chain rode plus snubber(s) to protect the windlass.
Also avoids the extra foredeck clutter of the rope drum, our windlass is only about 10cm high.

One snubber is a short strop simply attached to a strong point and with a chain hook at the other end. Its use is to keep any tension off the windlass, should the long snubber fail. This snubber also secures the anchor on passage. The other snubber will be long, boat length and is effectively only used at anchor to manage snatch loads. It can be secured at the transom and run up the deck - its long to provide measurable stretch. The long snubber needs to be elastic, which means for the OPs yacht 8mm or 10mm nylon. Anything larger will simply not stretch. It will look decidedly wimpy - but its sized for its ability to stretch not its ability to lift the yacht.

There was an article on snubbers and how to rig in the July copy of YM in 2021.

Jonathan

 

[Dockhead]

Choice of windlass depends very much on the boat and the layout of the deck and anchor locker. I have had both vertical and horizontal and on balance prefer horizontal although the drum is arguably less useful than on a vertical. As in post#2 all chain sufficient to cover most regular anchoring plus a means of extending with rope avoids any issues of rope/chain splices running through the gypsy. What boat do you have and what sort of cruising are you planning?

I much prefer working with a horizontal, and I've never had a problem with the lesser chain engagement of them. But horizontal windlasses catch ropes like they were designed for the purpose, so I'm sticking with my low profile vertical Lewmar, which causes no problems when tacking or working spinnaker guys etc.

 

[mogmog2]

That is true for vertical axis windlasses but not for the suggested Lewmar Pro where the casing is 316 and the motor is well insulated from water even though it is on deck. While it is arguably not as robust as a Lofrans or a Maxwell - the motor on mine failed after only 300 or so operations it is at least easy and cheap to repair. A Lofrans is maybe OTT for the boat and as we know needs more preventative maintenance and the Lewmar has captured a fair share of the OEM market.

.

That is true for vertical axis windlasses but not for the suggested Lewmar Pro where the casing is 316 and the motor is well insulated from water even though it is on deck. While it is arguably not as robust as a Lofrans or a Maxwell - the motor on mine failed after only 300 or so operations it is at least easy and cheap to repair. A Lofrans is maybe OTT for the boat and as we know needs more preventative maintenance and the Lewmar has captured a fair share of the OEM market.

You mention robustness and indicate that Lewmar are inferior to the other two.
I was deterred from Lofrans substantially by some examples of poor after sales service and in the absence of other reasons, that seemed adequate to look in a different direction. The Maxwell I can believe is an excellent product and I don't know about after sales service or spares availability, whereas Lewmar are everywhere here (UK).
I don't mind going a bit OTT - I understand that a margin extra is no bad thing with windlasses.

 

[vyv_cox]

.

You mention robustness and indicate that Lewmar are inferior to the other two.
I was deterred from Lofrans substantially by some examples of poor after sales service and in the absence of other reasons, that seemed adequate to look in a different direction. The Maxwell I can believe is an excellent product and I don't know about after sales service or spares availability, whereas Lewmar are everywhere here (UK).
I don't mind going a bit OTT - I understand that a margin extra is no bad thing with windlasses.

Maxwell spares have been easy to source. We bought a gearbox casing in UK for our first one, corroded before they modified the design and before Vetus took them over. Have bought chain strippers in Greece, again no problem with sourcing. Otherwise both have been very reliable.

 

[mogmog2]

I'd move straight to G30 6mm chain. Its sufficiently strong,

The casing on the electric motor is mild steel - give it an extra coat of paint before installation and try to ensure the water that runs off the chain during retrieval is not running all over the motor - add a baffle, or swing the motor out of the way of the falling

Windlass sit in the worst place possible for electrical gear - right in the bow taking all the breaking seas. Planning for something to go wrong -

check the ability of the windlass to be operated manually, some have no facility, and if there is a manual retrieval system - is it sensible - or is it a back breaker. Ask the retailer to demonstrate how it works - manually (or go to a boat show). If they think your request, unreasonable, buy elsewhere. Windlass are not cheap - having them work for the sale does not seem unreasonable.

The nice thing about using a sheet or halyard winch as a warping drum - the winches are commonly arranged to be easily used, you free up space to work in the bow and don't have an unnecessary trip hazard.

We never sailed in the med and in 30 years of yacht ownership never had need of a warping drum on a windlass. We did need to warp - but it was easier simply using a sheet winch.

You need a short strop, see Noelex post above, to keep the tension and any snatch loads off the windlass. A snubber does this but snubbers fail and you may need to use a strop as back up to secure the anchor when at sea, clutches fail.


When you devise a short list of windlass, list them here, and maybe owners of the same models can comment on their specific strengths and weaknesses.

Jonathan

I am interested as to when you think you might use a warping drum. I had one on my SL Anchorman vertical and don't recall ever using it in the 20 years or so - although a remember barking my shin on it more than once! I used the one on my Lofrans Caymen 88 in the Med as Vyv describes. Never used it for the anchor warp as our 50m of chain was usually enough and on the rare occasion added rope was used it was easy to bring in the few metres by hand with the engine pulling the boat forward then dropping the chain onto the gypsy.

To me the most important features of a windlass are powered both ways and a radio remote - plus a good self stowing bow roller/anchor.

We could have done with it twice on the delivery trip back home! That's why we were looking at the warping drum version - not for the anchor line but other situations. The incidents were at least in part down to it being a new boat to us plus it being too big to just manhandle like the Centaur we're used to. I'd like to think we'll get better at it though... Both times were a slightly suboptimal coming up to a pontoon with a stiff tide running ending up with the bow swinging out and it we just couldn't pull it in and letting go from the pontoon wasn't appealing for various reasons so I ended up running a line back to a winch to do this, which meant a bar-taut line rubbing along the cabin angles and over the sprayhood :-( .
I've looked at a better sheet winch warping setup and a couple of snatch blocks costs as much as the drum premium on the gypsy only version. Home for us is the Arun, the second fastest river in the Country, and our pontoons stick out into the flow (unlike the Town Quay, which is on the lazier side of the river) and this can make for entertaining situations. IDK if we'll never use it again, but I've got my buying-things-for-the-new-boat hat on ATM and it seems the relatively small amount extra could be worth it and if it means we don't get swept off by the tide & an F5 into a trot line of gleaming X Boats, that'd be money very well spent (one of the possible outcomes for the Itchenor incident)

 

[noelex]

The most important factor for a long windlass life is to make sure no salt water can drip on the motor or gearbox. This means a pipe or deflection plate for the chain that extends below the windlass. This step is critical, but is often neglected on vertical models.

Coat the windlass, especially the motor, in wax or Denso tape.

Isolate both the positive and negative electrical supply when not in use.

Assemble all components using Tefgel or Duralac.

Service the windlass.

Oversize the windlass.

Ensure there is no excessive voltage drop even under high load.

Have an alternative switch to operate the solenoid and a means to quickly bypass the solenoid if it fails.

Don’t allow anchoring loads to impact the windlass.

Apply some dielectric grease to the electrical terminals.

Simple .

 

[Dockhead]

I am interested as to when you think you might use a warping drum. I had one on my SL Anchorman vertical and don't recall ever using it in the 20 years or so - although a remember barking my shin on it more than once! I used the one on my Lofrans Caymen 88 in the Med as Vyv describes. Never used it for the anchor warp as our 50m of chain was usually enough and on the rare occasion added rope was used it was easy to bring in the few metres by hand with the engine pulling the boat forward then dropping the chain onto the gypsy.

To me the most important features of a windlass are powered both ways and a radio remote - plus a good self stowing bow roller/anchor.

Depends on the size of the boat. On the Discovery 67 I sail on regularly, we use the warping drum A LOT. It's used not for rope rode (which we don't have on that boat) but for hauling on mooring warps.

I have been tempted to add a warping drum to my Lewmar windlass, but the vertical protrusion stops me (and the £££ of course).