Ensign?

[john_morris_uk]

A small anecdote……steaming out the Scheldt on a rust coaster we put the pilot off and the skipper called to lower the courtesy flag,on pullin the flag halliard the entire flag and bracket decended to the deck

Came off in me ‘and chief!

 

[jamie N]

What counts as a flag/ensign? Does it have to be a floppy piece of linen thing, or can it be construed to be something like my wind-vane, which is given over to the boat being built inGermany?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

What counts as a flag/ensign? Does it have to be a floppy piece of linen thing, or can it be construed to be something like my wind-vane, which is given over to the boat being built inGermany?
View attachment 155094

I have seen the same thing on a few occasions and assuming that it is a true representation of the flag of the country of registration then it should be OK.

 

[veshengro]

Many years ago some of the bigger British shipping companies attached quite a lot of importance and procedure to the display of various flags and ensigns. P&O was one company in particular. A P&O passenger ship might well fly ( yes I know about wear) four or five flags at any one time when in a foreign port. Courtesy flag on the foremast yard, A Royal Mail Pennant if she was carrying mail, the company House flag on her after topmast and of course her ensign right aft. Until the Pilot was landed ashore she would also fly H and Q and P later when due to sail.
The passengers loved it..all very ceremonial.
True yarn.. early 1960's in Sydney Australia, the Orient Company's SS. Oriana was lying at the then still developing Circular Quay. My ship, a cargo ship was lying alongside the same quay some distance astern of her. At eight bells, 0800 hrs every morning a bugle call recording would sound aboard the Oriana and her Quarter Masters, who wore Naval caps and white fronts like RN Matelots, would stand by all flag halyards and as the first bell was struck, all flags except her ensign of course were 'broken out', the Red Ensign was hoisted in a slow and dignified manner as is proper...

Someone (not me) from the rabble that crewed my ship.. crept aboard Oriana one night when the Gangway Watchman was distracted and quietly ran down all her flags which were neatly rolled and at the halyard block ready for breaking out the next morning. The Intruder unclipped the flags and inserted other items and then sneakily secured the flag back on the halyard with a slippery hitch.

At eight bells the next morning our foc'sle head was crowded with spectators, including the 2nd Mate and Senior Apprentice who should have been blushing...The bugle recording sounded, the first bell was struck and the QM's tugged on the halyards..and down fell the Royal Mail Pennant, Courtesy ensign and House flag all still neatly rolled up and in their places flew various items of ladies underwear bent on the halyards. I remember the House flag became two Brassieres hitched together, one flag on the foremast became a Baby Doll nightie but I can't recall the others..

Chaos ensued. Enquiries and a Deputation from the Shipping Agents, unfounded accusations against AB's aboard my ship and a general uproar which the Aussies Dockers cried with laughter over for days afterwards.

 

[jamie N]

This is a genuinely inquisitive query rather than trolling, but how would that sit with, say my wind vane and an ensign of a different nation?
My immediate thought is that the ensign's more usually indicative of the country of registration, so would be acknowledged as such, and nobody would be too bothered by it, as long as the 'skipper' passed the personality test of not being a prat. Everyone's got something better to do, after all.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

This is a genuinely inquisitive query rather than trolling, but how would that sit with, say my wind vane and an ensign of a different nation?
My immediate thought is that the ensign's more usually indicative of the country of registration, so would be acknowledged as such, and nobody would be too bothered by it, as long as the 'skipper' passed the personality test of not being a prat. Everyone's got something better to do, after all.

As long as you were displaying the correct ensign in the correct place no one is likely to bother, if it concerns yo paint over it.

 

[KeithMD]

We flew the version of Cornish Ensign - Union Jack at top left on St Pirans Cross background which has precedent of the Cornish steamship Company (rather than alternative version of Red duster with St Pirans Cross at top left)- all the way to and from Brittany and no one batted an eye, and also all the way to Hebrides and back though as many boats we saw there were wearing the Saltire duster we knew they would understand the significance.

For the visual record:
Two versions of the Cornish Merchant Naval Ensign





We always hoist the courtesy flag as we go east to west across the Tamar, and cross the border from England to Cornwall.

 

[FWB]

Look no further than the Cruising Association to cover both topics

 

[KeithMD]

Further, there are so many red/blue ensign derivatives in the Med (usually from tax dodging lications) that the typical official has no idea what is valid and what is not even if they were inclined to enforce UK legislation.

Sounds like a great way to confuse the typical official.
British boat?
Oh no!

Also makes me wonder why we've not heard from anyone with their boat registered in these places.

Guernsey


Jersey


Alderney


Sark


Isle of Man


Gibraltar


And then a cluster of dusters for the more exotic ones.





Anyone tempted to buy a boat from one of those places just for the exotic ensign?

 

[Aurai]

I was brought up to believe Charles 1, ordered the Union flag be restricted to His Majesty's ships “upon pain of our high displeasure”.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

The top 6 are all separate registers, the others all show the union flag and are again separate registers from the UK register.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The top 6 are all separate registers, the others all show the union flag and are again separate registers from the UK register.

A good number of those would probably allow you to register.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

A good number of those would probably allow you to register.

Indeed they would

 

[KeithMD]

The top 6 are all separate registers, the others all show the union flag and are again separate registers from the UK register.

Well, yes, thanks for confirming my point.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Indeed they would

My family love the British Antarctic Territory ensign. Who doesn’t love a penguin?

 

[KeithMD]

A good number of those would probably allow you to register.

I did (in fact) look at registering in Guernsey c.30 years ago, for charter work (Cat 1). it was tempting (no VAT to charge customers). But decided on balance it wasn't worth the risk of attracting attention from HMRC, which takes a dim view of such frivolous activity.

 

[KeithMD]

My family love the British Antarctic Territory ensign. Who doesn’t love a penguin?

Perhaps @AntarcticPilot can arrange one?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Perhaps @AntarcticPilot can arrange one?

My colleague, Peter Fretwell might be able to! He used to work for me...

 

[Supine Being]

I always quite fancied one of these, but I don't imagine there are many private pleasure craft registered in the British Indian Ocean Territory:

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Good lord! for those that are hard of thinking and understanding it is not the person it is the vessel that requires its national registration to be identified by the wearing of the appropriate ensign as defined by international law. It will tend to make people think that the owner or skipper is of the same nationality a quite reasonable assumption in most cases, moist of Europe rightly or wrongly will initially associate the yacht and its occupants as being English again a natural assumption since there are 55 million of them as opposed to the handful of others. When this is the case and the occupants find it distasteful it gives them the perfect opportunity to disparage the English and vent their spleen to the unassuming Jonny Foreigner and put him right. This is where the option of displaying a curtesy ensign from the port flag hoist will allow those on board to declare their particular affiliation if they so desire and in doing so may at least save Jonny Foreigner the embarrassment of assuming the occupants to be either English or proud Britons or simply ignorant of flags etiquette and requirements. .

Such attitudes are why Scotland actively, and Wales and Cornwall tentatively (and the latter perhaps unwisely) are seeking independence.

Perhaps your residence in Frances has left you detached from the sheer anger and irritation of british ‘celtic’ groups being lumped in with the English.

There is clear precedent for the ensigns of the celtic nations whether formally recognised by the British Board of trade or not. No one is suggesting ensigns for every village town or county but the OP was intrigued by conflation of English and British identity in the normal red duster. To which I sympathised and made suggestion

After all I fly the flag of Wessex if flag needed on land. (Boat is cornish, I am not)