eBorders - What do you want to know?

[halfway]

Why are you so out of control?

Why do they think "they" can control the best designed coast in the world for smuggling.

Why do they want to copy other countries rules when this country has a unique situations. I have been in and out of a good proportion of the worlds "restrictive" countries.

US: They by their geography have an issue. Two major land borders and one close island chain border. Entry is very restrictive and down to a few physical obvious places. Exit is easy and has allowance for weather by negotiation with human in an office. This is the only border where I have been approached by a criminal trying to cross a border.

Australia: Massive northern unpopulated coast. No one is watching. Entry is by simple advanced notification and then arrival is at certain physical ports. No anchoring and straight approach. Exit is easy. They understand weather and tidal windows. Work out issues with humans at office.

Singapore: Traffic centre of the world. Too many ships to watch. All procedures after landing at office. The policing control is via the port captains.

ABC Islands: Buzzed by helicopter. Called on VHF, photographed and left.

They are all unique. They are all mindful of the weather. They are all friendly. All boat inspection access has been while safely tied up in port. No one EVER boarded our boat at sea. No arms held or aimed. So why is the UK so different?

In this wonderful illogical world, we have a requirement for a CRB check to work with kids. After which we are left alone with no checks or inspections. However, to sail we need to report all our movements and be exactly where we should be every minute and suffer inspections anywhere. Real policing is a compromise. It should be intelligence led, not random. Thinking of our coast as the vulnerable and the yachties as the slow moving guardians. I would rather see them looking at our log books and sighting as a source, than us as a criminal.

The best bits that really show how they are out of control:
"enabling us to link a person's journeys in order to form a detailed travel history, so that we can provide background checks to other agencies and compile a profile of suspect passengers and their travel patterns and networks."

So without any suspicion they will find the evidence by our patterns. So having a family friend in the Channel Islands and doing regular runs is now evidence of a crime.

The other bit is that under the title "What is the legal basis for collecting personal information?"
the Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Act 2006;
the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999;
the Immigration (Passenger Information) Order 2000;
the Revenue and Customs Commissioners' Directions; and
Schedule 7 to the Terrorism Act 2000 (Information) Order 2002.

Notice how all law dates are after the nanny state got voted in.

The "boarder" agency is off course and needs to stop the fear policy. It might not be allowed by EU law to target none-locals, but there is no law to stop it following up on sources from anyone. Just happens that the locals are the best source of intelligence.

Stop intimidating them.

 

[sailaboutvic]

...........

here a question I would like a Answer to ,

WHAT GOING TO HAPPEN TO ALL OUR INFORMNATION WHEN THEY LOSE IT ?????

another wasted of tax payers money .

 

[st599]

1) I have a legal document which states: "Her Britannic Majesty's Secretary of State Requests and requires in the Name of Her Majesty all those whom it may concern to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance, and to afford the bearer such assistance and protection as may be necessary"
a) How does e-borders not count as a hindrance?
b) Would, constitutionally, someone who implemented this not need to be of a higher rank than Her Britannic Majesty?

2) We have a Royal Navy operated by Royal perogative (rather than act of parliament) who swear to be a "security for such as pass on the seas upon their lawful occasion". Does this not present a conflict between the protection guaranteed and the bureaucratic busy-bodies interfering?

3) In an FOI request reply I was told that the penalty for not submitting a form would be a large fine and/or imprisonment. Could you ask: a) under what law? and b) the level of fine.

4) Further, I was told that the time period for filing was 24hrs prior to the time of departure, with only changes allowed retrospectively. Is there any chance this will be relaxed for yachtsmen?

 

[Ian_Edwards]

It's just not practical!

I’d like to know how the eBoarders team would like me as a skipper to deal with the following voyage I plan to do over the next couple of years … one of my sailing goals, so to speak.
The boats is equipped with laptop, GPRS/3G data com’s (mainly used for the weather forecast) and a mobile phone, we use Vodafone. We also have active AIS, so the CG can see where we are when we are within VHF range, so we’re not trying to hide.
It’s a trip from NW Scotland to the Faeroes, and possibly on to Greenland and the basic passage plan might look something like this.
Depart Peterhead, through the Pentland Firth to Loch Eribol, anchor and wait for weather window there’s no marina, no wifi, no mobile, no public phone box in Loch Eribol, but we do have VHF to Aberdeen/Shetland/Stornaway CG.
From Eribol, we’d plan to make for the Faeroes, but have back-up plans for, Stromness/Kirkwall/Peirowall in Orkney, or perhaps North Harbour in Fair Isle, or Ham on Foula, or even the bright lights of Scalloway in Shetland or one of the sheltered Voes on the West Coast of Shetland.
And then on the Faeroes and then Greenland.
Our return trip would be similarly vague, and we might make UK landfall in any one of several dozen out of the way places from Unst in the north of Shetland to Stornaway and anywhere in between. We have done our home work, made the passage plans with many of the possible alternative routes, and changed our minds dynamically, depending on the weather, progress under sail and quite frankly how we felt on the day.
We’re certainly not terrorists, or smugglers, we just two retired sailing enthusiast exercising out right to navigate freely, when and where we choose.
Are they telling me I can’t make this passage?
Are they insisting that I have to make a detour of hundreds of miles, and many hour of extra sailing, and ignore my experience which tells me that I’m better having a plan which can be adapted to meet the dual aims of being safety and enjoying the trip, simply to comply with a bureaucratic edict?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I believe (may be wrong) they only expect us to check-in, not check-out. So only the last leg of the return trip need be notified.

Whatever, the whole thing is a nonsense.

Thought for the day - if the government can't trust the citizens, why should the citizens trust the government?

 

[st599]

I believe (may be wrong) they only expect us to check-in, not check-out. So only the last leg of the return trip need be notified.

Whatever, the whole thing is a nonsense.

Thought for the day - if the government can't trust the citizens, why should the citizens trust the government?

I think it's leaving and arriving.

 

[sailorman]

I think it's leaving and arriving.

its going to be possible to over load their systems every w/e isnt it

 

[Ludd]

its going to be possible to over load their systems every w/e isnt it

Naughty boy!

 

[sailorman]

Naughty boy!

One Tries

 

[bobgarrett]

How much will this cost and will a Minister be called to account (and be sacked - not resign) if it goes horribly over budget as would happen in industry.

 

[Seven Spades]

Of course there will be eventually. Just like you get charged for other things you dont want but the govt decides you need.

But the real irritation of this scheme is that we are awash with drugs , smuggled baccy / booze and smuggled people despite all those activities being already illegal. So we know that the E borders scheme wont work to stop the officially identified problem. It will just control the law abiding.

You don't need to go abroad to get drugs you can grow your own

 

[awol]

I’d like to know how the eBoarders team would like me as a skipper to deal with the following voyage I plan to do over the next couple of years …

Not a problem. Fill in a form when you load the duty free and forget about it, just like we do now.

 

[sighmoon]

Can they set out exactly what they want to achieve with the system, and for what purpose?

What would be the alternative ways of achieving this purpose, and how do all the alternatives stack up (costs, effectiveness, data integrity, convenience)

 

[huzar30]

Very many years ago, in days of the old yellow 1331 form, it took me 42 hours to sail from Cherbourg to Langstone [don't ask!]. I filled in the form in a state of some fatigue and posted it in the box.

A day or so later, I received a phone call. Did I know I had left 3 of the entries of the form blank? Oh? Sorry, I said. Here's the information you need ...

But that wasn't good enough. Well, sir, as a result of your having not filled in the form as you should have done, we require to interview you.

So, we arranged that a Customs officer would come down to the boat next Sunday at 3pm. He told me that I had committed an offence by leaving those boxes blank, and that, if HM Customs and Excise had been so minded, that I could have been hauled up in front of Winchester magistrates and fined £25.

I did say that this seemed a little heavy handed, and that if Customs wanted the co-operation of yachtsmen to counter smuggling etc, then this sort of thing wouldn't help. I also said that if I was trying to pull a fast one in some way, then I wouldn't even have put the form in the box. After all, no one knew I'd been to Cherbourg. Sadly, he wasn't impressed by my counter argument.

I thought those days were long past. Not so, it would seem ...

 

[bondsam123]

Hi guys,

I would like to know how many of you believe in GOD??

Here, i am believe in God, after i sufuring from Accident.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

A good forecast and off to the CI's so we haven't left the UK!

Yes you have. The Channel Islands are not part of the United Kingdom and neither is the Isle of Man.

The EU is supposed to have free movement between member states. As my job I spend time travelling around mainland Europe, you can travel from the Baltic to Greece no checks!

The Schengen agreement, which the UK has not signed up for. Yes, signing up for the Schengen Agreement would mean we could take the Dover ferry without a passport, except of course, you will still need to show ID, the same as you need a passport or driving licence to fly Easy Jet from London to Scotland.

Not only that, but those nice people assembled in Calais, looking for a lorry to climb aboard, would not be inconvenienced in their quest for the 'promised land'.

 

[sailaboutvic]

R Y A

isnt time we heared from the RYA after all 2010 is only weeks away , how far have they got with HMSC ???

 

[Chris_Robb]

The letter I had back from my mate Dave, said that whilst the Conservatives would continue with E Borders, they would be dropping the database of movements.

I presume this would effectively mean they would not want information logged, as no database means where is it being logged, therefore this whole arguement may go Puuufff by the next erection.