Dragging of anchors

[Neeves]

I agree. To my mind, shelter is from waves, not wind. The only thing that can shelter from wind is a Great Big Hill, .

and trees (as long as you can get close enough) - which I accept might not be sufficiently common in many places.

 

[thinwater]

and trees (as long as you can get close enough) - which I accept might not be sufficiently common in many places.

This is one of those regional things. Around here (Chesapeake bay and East Coast you nearly always can, particularly with a multihull. Lots of small creeks that make fine hurricane holes. But the hold ground often sucks. Thus more focus on holding and less about the strength of the rode.

 

[noelex]

To my mind, shelter is from waves, not wind. The only thing that can shelter from wind is a Great Big Hill, and that very often doesn't work because of downwind turbulence. See Loch Scavaig (Loch na Cuile for the pedants) for the classic example of that.

I agree.

In very strong wind often anchorages with high ground to windward, especially if it is a hill or mountain, can sometimes be worse than if the ground is lower.

The turbulence, downdrafts and gustier nature of the wind as it meets the low pressure on the leeward side of the elevation can make the anchorage less comfortable and less safe than relatively low ground that would seem at first glance to offer much less protection.

I don't think the above is universally true by any means, but certainly don't necessarily dismiss an otherwise good anchorage because the ground elevation is low. I am an ex glider pilot so I try to imagine what the wind is likely to do as it traverses the topography, but often I am surprised and the resulting protection is significantly better or worse than I estimate. Perhaps it is not possible to reliably predict, or perhaps my skills are too rusty.

There seems to be a difference between moderate wind (for example 30 Knots) and strong wind (for example 45 Knots). In moderate wind high ground to windward is generally benificial. In strong wind, generally I would prefer uniform flat land to windward even if it was realivly low lying. This is especially true if you have no local knowledge of the anchorage.

 

[RupertW]

I agree.

In very strong wind often anchorages with high ground to windward, especially if it is a hill or mountain, can sometimes be worse than if the ground is lower.

The turbulence, downdrafts and gustier nature of the wind as it meets the low pressure on the leeward side of the elevation can make the anchorage less comfortable and less safe than relatively low ground that would seem at first glance to offer much less protection.

I don't think the above is universally true by any means, but certainly don't necessarily dismiss an otherwise good anchorage because the ground elevation is low. I am an ex glider pilot so I try to imagine what the wind is likely to do as it traverses the topography, but often I am surprised and the resulting protection is significantly better or worse than I estimate. Perhaps it is not possible to reliably predict, or perhaps my skills are too rusty.

Agreed - I always prefer being behind a low rise or sandbank than the precarious shelter of a mountain - but sometimes you have no choice. An extreme example of a excellent anchorage is the Tobago Keys which has no visible shelter from a three thousand mile fetch and is often very windy but the subsea reef reduces huge swell to ripples and the wind is strong but rarely gusty

 

[JumbleDuck]

and trees (as long as you can get close enough) - which I accept might not be sufficiently common in many places.

Yes, good point, and trees don't produce nasty curl-over. The only problem is that the windy places here, more or less by definition, don't have trees ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

I am an ex glider pilot so I try to imagine what the wind is likely to do as it traverses the topography, but often I am surprised and the resulting protection is significantly better or worse than I estimate. Perhaps it is not possible to reliably predict, or perhaps my skills are too rusty.

I was just going to post something similar ... I found that soaring hills gave me a much better understanding of what was going on at sea level on the West of Scotland.

 

[Stemar]

Good, that's what anchors are supposed to do.
When we're away cruising, we're a long way away from our mooring. Realistically, our only option is anchoring, and we just have to be prepared to take what's flung at us. There is now an increasing number of pontoons scattered throughout the Scottish Highlands and Islands, some of which confusingly call themselves "Marinas". Many of them are very exposed to certain wind directions, and would be the last place that I would consider for bad weather. We are however, blessed with innumerable good, safe, natural anchorages, so with a little common sense, we can sit out bad weather safely at anchor.

Dahn Sarff it's often easier to find a marina than a decent anchorage for bad weather - almost all the good places have had the bottom chewed to a slurry. Were I up there, I'd do the same as you.

 

[zoidberg]

of a excellent anchorage is the Tobago Keys which has no visible shelter from a three thousand mile fetch and is often very windy but the subsea reef reduces huge swell to ripples and the wind is strong but rarely gusty

It'd a bit like that on the south-west side of Portland Harbour, with similar fetch, but it's not so sunny and the reef is not 'sub-sea' but The Chesil Bank!

Here are a few fine anchorages, rarely busy except during West Highland Week, when everyone else gets out of Oban and Tobermory....'far from the madding crowd!'

One might think Loch Scavaig would be a fine, sheltered spot in a westerly blow, but not so. The violent downdrafts - 'williwaws' in Gaelic - have been known to lift an anchored trimaran bodily and turn it upside down.

A better place is tiny Soay harbour, on the NW side of that island, which was the haunt of writer Gavin Maxwell. Lines ashore are quite practicable.

 

[NormanS]

I think in fairness, it should be pointed out that these anchorages of zoidberg's are full of midges, ticks, and adders. The sun never shines in them. The rain comes down in torrents. There is no internet, phone, Navtex or VHF.

 

[Frank Holden]

Think we need Frank Holden aka Our Man in Patagonia at this point..

You called?

I find that Novak video a trifle annoying.... setting yourself up in the middle of an anchorage thus denying safe access to anyone else.... the first time I stopped at Pto Maxwell I arrived to find a charter yacht had done just that leaving me to spend the night in a very unsafe position( first pic.... second piccy is also Maxwell). The secret is to make the land your friend and tuck in as close as you possibly can.... and you don't need wire strops and chains either... rope is fine and it doesn't chafe where it passes around the tree as there is no movement there.
Trees are far superior to rocks ( rope is less likely to slip under or over a tree ) and this would be one of a very few anchorages where you find big rocks like this. Maxwell can be done quite easily with anchor and three lines ashore. The trees in Patagonia are excellent.... very slow growing their roots go all the way to China.

As said elsewhere in this thread... for Patagonia you need dedicated ropes... I carry two full coils ( 240 metres each ) and two half coils of 12mm polyprop... it floats.... in ropes bags... 'bolsas para verduras' ..works good.

There are some anchorages where you are obliged to lie at anchor but an anchor and 2 lines is better and an anchor and 4 lines is best.

I got shot of my CQR 10 years ago... was hopeless in kelp.... Rocna is far better but 99% of the time I am dealing with a static pull and not swinging at anchor..

More here http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile

 

[zoidberg]

I think in fairness, it should be pointed out that these anchorages of zoidberg's are full of midges, ticks, and adders. The sun never shines in them. The rain comes down in torrents. There is no internet, phone, Navtex or VHF.

Chust so, chust so.... We'll no' be wahntin' tae put a' they visitors aff frae comin' north, lookin' fur the conveniences o' ra Shiny Solent , an' findin' the bogs at Tobes are a' backed up again and shut fur ra season. Again.....

 

[Neeves]

If there is no internet, VHF, phone (much of west coast Tas) you can be fairly sure of splendid isolation or restricted to the company of like minded souls. The absence of internet, plus most of the western half of the southern coast of Australia (which is almost totally devoid of any anchorages, all 2,000km of it) maintains the need for HF radio for those that venture there.

How do you get, useful, forecasts for NW Coast Scotland?

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I think in fairness, it should be pointed out that these anchorages of zoidberg's

The sun never shines in them. The rain comes down in torrents. There is no internet, phone, Navtex or VHF.

I suppose this is just more 'false news'

https://www.scotsman.com/news/scotl...spain-as-week-long-heatwave-arrives-1-4758579

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

If there is no internet, VHF, phone (much of west coast Tas) you can be fairly sure of splendid isolation or restricted to the company of like minded souls. The absence of internet, plus most of the western half of the southern coast of Australia (which is almost totally devoid of any anchorages, all 2,000km of it) maintains the need for HF radio for those that venture there.

How do you get, useful, forecasts for NW Coast Scotland?

Jonathan

We have a weather stone, hanging on a bit of string. Or we did have, until it was blown away. (Google it and you'll see what I mean).

 

[Neeves]

Ah!

I assume someone is bound to suggest 'bigger is better' so they can also be used as a kellet.

 

[Kukri]

You called?

I find that Novak video a trifle annoying.... setting yourself up in the middle of an anchorage thus denying safe access to anyone else.... the first time I stopped at Pto Maxwell I arrived to find a charter yacht had done just that leaving me to spend the night in a very unsafe position( first pic.... second piccy is also Maxwell). The secret is to make the land your friend and tuck in as close as you possibly can.... and you don't need wire strops and chains either... rope is fine and it doesn't chafe where it passes around the tree as there is no movement there.
Trees are far superior to rocks ( rope is less likely to slip under or over a tree ) and this would be one of a very few anchorages where you find big rocks like this. Maxwell can be done quite easily with anchor and three lines ashore. The trees in Patagonia are excellent.... very slow growing their roots go all the way to China.

As said elsewhere in this thread... for Patagonia you need dedicated ropes... I carry two full coils ( 240 metres each ) and two half coils of 12mm polyprop... it floats.... in ropes bags... 'bolsas para verduras' ..works good.

There are some anchorages where you are obliged to lie at anchor but an anchor and 2 lines is better and an anchor and 4 lines is best.

I got shot of my CQR 10 years ago... was hopeless in kelp.... Rocna is far better but 99% of the time I am dealing with a static pull and not swinging at anchor..

More here http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile

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Thanks, Frank!

 

[zoidberg]

How do you get, useful, forecasts for NW Coast Scotland?

You could always tak' a wee daun'er up the hill in front o' the SMC Coruisk Hut e.g. Gars-bheinn, 893.... an' hae a look. If ye' couldnae see it comin', it had already 'come in'

'40 knot fog an' horizontal rain' as I remember.... or 'snaw'

 

[Neeves]

Obviously you lot like to live life dangerously.

 

[JumbleDuck]

How do you get, useful, forecasts for NW Coast Scotland?

Shipping Forecasts are available on LW radio (not in many secluded anchorages, though), but they're pretty rubbish.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Obviously you lot like to live life dangerously.

Why else would we use CQRs?