36ft sailboat, anchoring not going well

[wvansl]

Hello,
I'm currently cruising in Greece (Ionian) on my 36ft sailboat, 6 tons, from 2000, shallow draft, and I have trouble anchoring.
I see other boats dropping the anchor, going back slowly while dropping and with very little scope (way less than 1:5) they are stuck from the first try.

I do the same, even with more scope and I really have trouble staying stuck. Last night in muddy underground at a dept of 3m (under the keel so about 6m till the deck) I had to try 3 times. The days before about the same.
First season on the boat, 15kg delta type anchor (I don't think a "real brand" delta) and I have 50m of 8mm chain + 30m of rope.
I often drag already with the engine just in 1 click on reverse and having laid out about 45m of chain in 3m of dept (under the keel).
Something doesn't add up to me, is there something I am doing wrong or what can I do to do this better?

I do notice that sand works better (I was stuck with 1500rpm in reverse) but still, I have lost all confidence. Any spot in Navily that says "very good holding", I have trouble. And it is not even windy (yet).

My procedure:

1. Bring the boat to a standstill
2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom (let out the dept)
3. Push gear in reverse (1 click)
4. Drop more until about 1:5
5. Stop dropping and see if we drag (engine still in reverse)
6. If not dragging (which does not happen often), test till 2000 rpm in reverse and check for dragging.

Currently the only places where I feel a bit safe is in depts under 5m, and that is almost none existant here...

Any suggestions?

 

[dunedin]

Sorry to hear that. Sounds a decent technique. How much scope are you putting out before try to set / dig in, and how much once set?
At risk of forum war, when I changed boat and new one came either Delta I suddenly found issues setting. Binned a near new Delta and replaced by new-gen (in my case Rocna as had on previous boat) and never had issues since.

 

[Tranona]

That is the same setup as I had on my Bavaria 37 in the Ionian - but with a genuine Delta. The Delta is not the best anchor for initial set in the sort of seabeds encou8ntered in Greece but usually OK IF you apply plenty of thrust in reverse until the boat stops. You really need to get it dug well in. You don't need that amount of scope. 3.5 times is usually plenty, so 20-25m of chain from the windlass.

A different anchor that is better at setting would be wise. On my current boat (in the UK) I have one of the new Epsilons which is similar in design to the more expensive Vulcan and Spade anchors.

 

[RupertW]

14 years so far with a possibly real Delta anchor on my 42 footer and it’s never dragged once set. But I do try to use some technique whilst setting and almost always dive on the anchor to see how it is set and whether it’s just hooked on a rock or actually buried. I’m not stressed when I can’t do that, but find it builds up knowledge of what good and bad look like.

Your technique sounds ok. I tend to let the boat drift rather than reverse as I let 3:1 out then after letting everything settle for a minute I then apply slowest reverse to stretch the chain out. When I was less experienced I thought the sound of the chain straightening and the boat going backwards was dragging.

Once the chain is completely straight and raising from the water then I will a bit more out if there is room (maybe 4 maybe 5 to 1), and follow by increasing reverse revs slowly up to full reverse (56hp motor). If the anchor holds steady then I can be sure the sea bed is good for a squall. If it doesn’t (and with Deltas that’s not rare) then I will try in a different spot. I think once this year (Rodney Bay) I just couldn’t get it to stick even in 3 attempts with boats all around me looking fine, so moved half a mile and all was good.

 

[ylop]

2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom (let out the dept)
3. Push gear in reverse (1 click)

Silly question - how are you determining the depth. Just "let out the depth" sounds like it might be let out the number on the sounder - rather than let it our till you "feel" the difference when the weight reaches the bottom. Have you remembered freeboard etc? i.e. is the anchor actually flat on the bottom before you start? How fast are you going backwards on "1 click".

 

[Poignard]

My technique has always been to get the all the required scope of chain on the seabed before using the engine (if I use it at all)

 

[Roberto]

d having laid out about 45m of chain in 3m of dept (under the keel).

Are you sure you are dragging? With that amount of chain/depth you will hear a grumbling vibrating noise and the boat will continue backwards for quite a time, until the whole chain is stretched and the anchor eventually pulled and set; I am sure you did already, but maybe wait a little longer?

 

[Irish Rover]

I had a genuine 20kg Delta on my previous 34' power catamaran with 8mm chain and I have the same type and size Delta on my current 43' power cat with 10mm chain. My experience in the Ionian is somewhat limited and most of my boating is in the Aegean - I did sit out a 35kt blow anchored in Preveza for 3 days last month with no issues. The Delta is next to useless in weed and I avoid it at all costs. In mud I find I it best to give the anchor a minute or two to sink in a bit before I apply any pressure whatsoever. In sand it sticks first time every time as long as the sand is not just a thin layer on top of rock. I generally let out 2 or 3 times the depth before reversing and 5 times before applying more throttle.

 

[wingcommander]

Similar to above ,slowly let out scope as I drift backwards. This is now time to pop the kettle on , once all chain is out , make brew and relax in cockpit taking bearings. On occasion I may give a little astern if I feel necessary. All chain and 10 kg genuine Bruce.
I admit to still being a relative novice, however having no option other than anchor in tidal river mouths which is possibly why I don't need to set with engine that often .

 

[Supertramp]

I agree with those who let the chain out slowly so it's not in a big heap and pause for a bit to let the wind (or a very gentle reverse) help the anchor bite. I set my anchor alarm GPS thing so I can track what happens. Only then (after several minutes) will I try reverse on it. I never use masses of revs, I look for the chain stretching taut, not giving or slackening, and returning to the start position on the GPS. But I do think the nature of the bottom makes a big difference and if its rocky carrying a second, different anchor would make sense.

I do not dive to check if its dug in - its Scotland and the water is 10C, my wife tells me.

 

[neil_s]

Don't use the engine to set the anchor, just let the boat drift astern as you pay out the chain. You need to let the anchor tickle it's way into the sea-bed - a bit like hooking a trout!

 

[Refueler]

Ok .. my 2p's worth ..

OP's system.

1. Bring the boat to a standstill
2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom (let out the dept)
3. Push gear in reverse (1 click)
4. Drop more until about 1:5
5. Stop dropping and see if we drag (engine still in reverse)
6. If not dragging (which does not happen often), test till 2000 rpm in reverse and check for dragging.

My system - and I anchor with what many say is a dog of an anchor : Plough Holdfast (copy of CQR) with chain :

1. Bring the boat to a standstill at approx point I want Anchor
2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom + a few feet to make sure it lays down to do its job.
3. I do not use engine unless I need to just get boat to start drifting back .. and then its just a quick nudge or burst.
4. Ease out rode as boat drifts back ... hopefully aligned with way she will lie once brought up.
5. Stop letting out rode at the estimated amount needed and see if we drag - still no engine.
6. If not dragging - then a quickie burst only just to set the anchor if not already set by itself.
7. Observe boat and position for reasonable period while putting gear away ...

My opinion is that OP may be using too much engine and not allowing anchor fair chance to do its job before he's putting weight on it. Its probably skidding on the bottom hoping he'll stop pulling so it can do its job and dig in !

I know some will say not right - but I'm from ships and been boating near all my life ... I work the ships way ... anchor out to provide a hold for the chain .. let out chain as the boat drifts back .... chain is basically on the bottom for a reasonable length from the anchors shank - so any weight will tend to make anchor dig in .. once full scope is out ... hold and let boat weight come on - chain will still be basically horizontal enough from shank to pull along sea bed .. Job done.

Of course if you use rope ... then I leave that to you !!

 

[wvansl]

Silly question - how are you determining the depth. Just "let out the depth" sounds like it might be let out the number on the sounder - rather than let it our till you "feel" the difference when the weight reaches the bottom. Have you remembered freeboard etc? i.e. is the anchor actually flat on the bottom before you start? How fast are you going backwards on "1 click".

I use the depth of the depth sounder to which I add about 2 meters which seems correct when I measured it once manually.

Are you sure you are dragging? With that amount of chain/depth you will hear a grumbling vibrating noise and the boat will continue backwards for quite a time, until the whole chain is stretched and the anchor eventually pulled and set; I am sure you did already, but maybe wait a little longer?

Pretty sure yes, I drag literally 100m (at one click) before I say to myself: yeah, this ain't working.

Don't use the engine to set the anchor, just let the boat drift astern as you pay out the chain. You need to let the anchor tickle it's way into the sea-bed - a bit like hooking a trout!

But if there is almost zero wind, then this is not really possible right? I don't want the chain all on top of each other either?

I see other boats anchor in less than 5 minutes, which I find very weird (compared to my experience).

I think the general response here is to try the following:

1. Let out 2 to 3 times the scope
2. Do 1 click reverse
3. Wait till chain is tensioned
4. Let out more (to 1:4 or 1:5, while going reverse)
5. Wait till chain is tensioned
6. Use throttle to test the holding

Does this seem more correct?

I'm literally writing this from "Plataria" in Greece, a huge place where there suddenly was 20-25kn of wind for about 1.5h.
2 other boats here beside me, I dragged (of course) slowly, maybe about 1m per 5 minutes, in total about 150m from my original point. The other boats where perfectly stuck in place.
Enough space to drag and had the engine on in case but it shows again, that something is up I think and I don't think a different "setting technique" will solve this. I swinged quite a lot too, almost 90 degrees to the wind every now and then. Anything I could have done different here maybe? I was trying to steer into the wind but it was very hard since it came in huge blows from the mountain, parallel to the beach. I had a navionics track on and I could follow every swing and slowly dragging further and further...

 

[Refueler]

But if there is almost zero wind, then this is not really possible right? I don't want the chain all on top of each other either?

I see other boats anchor in less than 5 minutes, which I find very weird (compared to my experience).

I think the general response here is to try the following:

1. Let out 2 to 3 times the scope
2. Do 1 click reverse
3. Wait till chain is tensioned
4. Let out more (to 1:4 or 1:5, while going reverse)
5. Wait till chain is tensioned
6. Use throttle to test the holding

Does this seem more correct?

It is very rare that a boat will not drift for one reason or another ... wind - current etc.

They are likely anchoring by not putting so much thought and engine into the work.

As to your 1 2 3 etc.

IMHO - No it is not correct ... please go back and read replies ... most mention to not use engine .. most mention to lay out scope as boat drifts WITHOUT putting weight on while letting out.

 

[RupertW]

Don't use the engine to set the anchor, just let the boat drift astern as you pay out the chain. You need to let the anchor tickle its way into the sea-bed - a bit like hooking a trout!

You need a few revs if it’s dead calm and no current.

It is very rare that a boat will not drift for one reason or another ... wind - current etc.

They are likely anchoring by not putting so much thought and engine into the work.

As to your 1 2 3 etc.

IMHO - No it is not correct ... please go back and read replies ... most mention to not use engine .. most mention to lay out scope as boat drifts WITHOUT putting weight on while letting out.

Surely you must have experience with absolutely no wind and no current - it’s very common in the Med. As in my reply I tend to let the boat drift to let the chain out but only if there is something to make it drift. Otherwise its lowest revs in reverse in the likely direction the wind will return. Then the full reverse built up to once the chain is fully out. Not to test the chain and anchor - hopefully you already know they are sound - but to test that bit of sea bed in case squall comes up when you are out for the day or asleep.

 

[doug748]

Hello,
I'm currently cruising in Greece (Ionian) on my 36ft sailboat, 6 tons, from 2000, shallow draft, and I have trouble anchoring.
I see other boats dropping the anchor, going back slowly while dropping and with very little scope (way less than 1:5) they are stuck from the first try.

I do the same, even with more scope and I really have trouble staying stuck. Last night in muddy underground at a dept of 3m (under the keel so about 6m till the deck) I had to try 3 times. The days before about the same.
First season on the boat, 15kg delta type anchor (I don't think a "real brand" delta) and I have 50m of 8mm chain + 30m of rope.
I often drag already with the engine just in 1 click on reverse and having laid out about 45m of chain in 3m of dept (under the keel).
Something doesn't add up to me, is there something I am doing wrong or what can I do to do this better?

I do notice that sand works better (I was stuck with 1500rpm in reverse) but still, I have lost all confidence. Any spot in Navily that says "very good holding", I have trouble. And it is not even windy (yet).

My procedure:

1. Bring the boat to a standstill
2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom (let out the dept)
3. Push gear in reverse (1 click)
4. Drop more until about 1:5
5. Stop dropping and see if we drag (engine still in reverse)
6. If not dragging (which does not happen often), test till 2000 rpm in reverse and check for dragging.

Currently the only places where I feel a bit safe is in depts under 5m, and that is almost none existant here...

Any suggestions?

The only untested variable is your copy anchor, as the others have suggested, borrow or buy a branded alternative and you should be ok.

.

 

[Irish Rover]

The only untested variable is your copy anchor, as the others have suggested, borrow or buy a branded alternative and you should be ok.

.

I'm with this. We all have our own way of doing things and most boaters very quickly find the way that suits them and their anchor + boat best. However if your anchor is a poor knock off then it's just a liability and best to change it and save yourself all the stress.

 

[Slowboat35]

I see other boats dropping the anchor, going back slowly while dropping and with very little scope (way less than 1:5) they are stuck from the first try.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. They might look 'stuck', they very likely think they are stuck, you might think they are stuck but my experience in the Med is that damn few yotties have the vaguest clue about how to anchor properly and many find out the hard way when a thunderstorm strikes.
It sounds to me that you are not in that group, far from it. Your technique sounds fine to me.
Med seabeds tend to be poor holding; sand, those melon-sized boulders or seagrass. Properly good (mud) is far less common and only found in the most enclosed or narrow type of inlets. In a great many of the the anchorages I have used it has been somewhere between difficult and almost impossible to reliably set an anchor well, including some of the most popular ones. The more crowded and 'popular' an anchorage is the more cautious I get. The sheep instinct is alive and well especially among charter yots.
Without wishing to start (yet) another anchoring-war I am rather sceptical about theories that non-branded or 'knock-off' anchors perform much if any different to their branded equivalents as long as the general arrangement, shape and geometry are similar. How could they?
What is much more to the point is whether the style of anchor employed is suitable for the bottom in question.
That's quite another matter, and one less easily solved as few yachts have the ability to select between different anchors according to the bottom.
If you're lucky enough to be able to borrow a couple of different anchors and try them out in a range of anchorages you might - just might learn something, otherwise I suggest your aware and careful approach should serve you well.
My feeling was that my CQR worked just fine most of the time, needed care on sand and was unreliable on seagrass unless you could drag through sand toreach and snag it (and dive to check) and was notably hopeless on those boulders when I wished I had a fisherman.
Curiously enough one of my observations was that in shallow water (say 2 - 3m) over sand almost no amount of chain held well in a blow, but in deeper water on the same bottom the same multiple did much better. Why? No idea. maybe I was imagining it but I think not.
Message is, do your best and if it doesn't work or you aren't comfortable, move elsewhere. Most of the other boats around you won't have that level of seamanship or judgement I promise you - so don't take your lead from them. Trust your own judgement, and when its offered the opinion of locals (which it is wise to seek and very unwise to ignore).

Enjoy!

 

[dunedin]

You need a few revs if it’s dead calm and no current.

Surely you must have experience with absolutely no wind and no current - it’s very common in the Med. As in my reply I tend to let the boat drift to let the chain out but only if there is something to make it drift. Otherwise its lowest revs in reverse in the likely direction the wind will return. Then the full reverse built up to once the chain is fully out. Not to test the chain and anchor - hopefully you already know they are sound - but to test that bit of sea bed in case squall comes up when you are out for the day or asleep.

I agree - may not need engine to set if blowing 15 knots or more, but if in a nice sheltered anchorage using a gentle reverse to lay out the cable and start the anchor set is good practice IMHO.
And before deciding safe for the night I definitely put on a bit kite power 8n reverse to check it is secure - boat should be very stable and not moving at all on decent powerr astern. However, before doing this check I put the short anchor snubber on and take the load off the windlass first.
PS. I would swap the anchor and try a concave design - clearly the OP has slots faith in the current anchor and a decent one should set instantly on a decent seabed at least 95% of the time. That’s why we binned our Delta.

 

[westernman]

Hello,
I'm currently cruising in Greece (Ionian) on my 36ft sailboat, 6 tons, from 2000, shallow draft, and I have trouble anchoring.
I see other boats dropping the anchor, going back slowly while dropping and with very little scope (way less than 1:5) they are stuck from the first try.

I do the same, even with more scope and I really have trouble staying stuck. Last night in muddy underground at a dept of 3m (under the keel so about 6m till the deck) I had to try 3 times. The days before about the same.
First season on the boat, 15kg delta type anchor (I don't think a "real brand" delta) and I have 50m of 8mm chain + 30m of rope.
I often drag already with the engine just in 1 click on reverse and having laid out about 45m of chain in 3m of dept (under the keel).
Something doesn't add up to me, is there something I am doing wrong or what can I do to do this better?

I do notice that sand works better (I was stuck with 1500rpm in reverse) but still, I have lost all confidence. Any spot in Navily that says "very good holding", I have trouble. And it is not even windy (yet).

My procedure:

1. Bring the boat to a standstill
2. Drop enough so the anchor touches the bottom (let out the dept)
3. Push gear in reverse (1 click)
4. Drop more until about 1:5
5. Stop dropping and see if we drag (engine still in reverse)
6. If not dragging (which does not happen often), test till 2000 rpm in reverse and check for dragging.

Currently the only places where I feel a bit safe is in depts under 5m, and that is almost none existant here...

Any suggestions?

Scope should be at least 4 time the distance from the top of your anchor roller to the ground (not sure if that is what you meant).

I think you are in too much of a hurry. I have a CQR on my boat and they are not known for being easy to get hooked on the first try, but I generally get it to dig in first go.

Best thing once you have dumped all the scope over board, before reversing or doing anything else is to take time. Don't listen to the people saying you have to lay it all out in a straight line. Very rarely will just dumping in a heap ever cause a problem.

Have a cup of tea.

If there is absolutely no wind and current, then give the engine a couple of seconds in reverse - just enough to get the boat almost imperceptibly moving.
Then have another cup of tea. No more than a few seconds in reverse. You need to give time for the anchor to start to nibble the sea bed. It needs time to decide whether it likes it or not and has the appetite to dig in.

Then repeat the reverse burst for a few seconds. And wait again.

Keep doing that until you have back down the full length of chain and it is starting to tension. Then very very very slowly build up pressure on it. Put you hand on the chain, you will feel it as soon as it drags.

By taking things really slowly, I almost always get my CQR to dig in first go and to hold very well - well enough to hold in a gale.

I seen in one of the anchorages, a 36ft boat come in try to drop anchor. They kept on dragging it in reverse. They tried may be 5 times before giving up and going somewhere else. There mistake was to back down too soon and too fast.

Take it slowly........