Dragging of anchors

[Bouba]

Being a fine weather Med motoboater I wasn’t expecting to ever drag but I have. Winter is not a problem, with plenty of scope but come the summer popular anchoring spots get real crowded real quick, even if you are first to arrive. So scope is very limited, my other big problem is my trawler style boat, short, fat and very tall. Add the tender, sup board and Bimini on the fly, and the slightest breeze she starts to drag. The boat came with a Delta, please explain to me why a plough? An agricultural plough is designed to dig in only shallow and then constantly break the surface as it’s pulled. Isn’t that the definition of dragging?
Anyhow I replaced it with a Rocna, which has a sterling reputation in these waters. I also went from the 18kg Delta to a 20kg Rocna, I’m not sure how much that helps because the Rocna roll bar must weigh 2kgs.
Anyhow the season is just beginning and I’m confident (touch wood) that all will be good:encouragement:

 

[noelex]

please explain to me why a plough?

Perfect for planting :

 

[zoidberg]

In wild and woolly places, where the wind is wont to blow something horrid - such as the canyons of Tierra del Fuego, the wilderness West Coast of Tasmania, or the horrific howling Hebrides - The Good Lord gave us solid granite onto which to secure our boats. I'm puzzled as to why people persist in using slippery Lake Solent hooky-upy techniques when rock spikes ( pitons ) hammered into cracks in the solid rock, or wire-rope loops around house-sized boulders on the foreshore, in the style of the sensible Swedes, would hold a fleet of fat white AWBs.

That laconic master of his craft Skip Novak went to all the trouble of demonstrating how best to secure one's yot to the bedrock, within a series of YouTube videos funded by Yachting World e.g.....

and yet I have yet to meet a fellow yottie who has invested in a rock-climber's hammer, a bag of pitons and a few wire rope slings. Perhaps these might be thought 'unfashionable' in Newton Creek, and one might meet raised eyebrows and arch, barely tolerant smiles in chain-chandlery Force 4 - but they will signify serious intent in blustery Loch Scavaig.

All of which recalls the occasion when, securing a very shallow catamaran close inshore at Porth Cressa/St Mary's, one dragged the bower anchor c/w chain up the beach and wrapped it three times around a robust steel Council notice-post declaring 'No Fires, No Ball Games, No Litter, No Dogs'.....

Lateral thinking?

 

[Neeves]

Perfect for planting :

Few anchor will set (and hold) with weed around the shank fluke interface.

 

[noelex]

Few anchor will set (and hold) with weed around the shank fluke interface.

When you drag as far as this anchor had, the anchor will collect some samples along the way.

The fine strands of loose weed was not the problem.

 

[Neeves]

In wild and woolly places, where the wind is wont to blow something horrid - such as the canyons of Tierra del Fuego, the wilderness West Coast of Tasmania, or the horrific howling Hebrides - The Good Lord gave us solid granite onto which to secure our boats. I'm puzzled as to why people persist in using slippery Lake Solent hooky-upy techniques when rock spikes ( pitons ) hammered into cracks in the solid rock, or wire-rope loops around house-sized boulders on the foreshore, in the style of the sensible Swedes, would hold a fleet of fat white AWBs.

That laconic master of his craft Skip Novak went to all the trouble of demonstrating how best to secure one's yot to the bedrock, within a series of YouTube videos funded by Yachting World e.g.....

and yet I have yet to meet a fellow yottie who has invested in a rock-climber's hammer, a bag of pitons and a few wire rope slings. Perhaps these might be thought 'unfashionable' in Newton Creek, and one might meet raised eyebrows and arch, barely tolerant smiles in chain-chandlery Force 4 - but they will signify serious intent in blustery Loch Scavaig.

All of which recalls the occasion when, securing a very shallow catamaran close inshore at Porth Cressa/St Mary's, one dragged the bower anchor c/w chain up the beach and wrapped it three times around a robust steel Council notice-post declaring 'No Fires, No Ball Games, No Litter, No Dogs'.....

Lateral thinking?

It is most odd

In Patagonia yachts carry shore lines as standard, Skip Novak has large reels either side of the mast holding many 10s of metres of cordage, ready to use as shore lines. Visiting yachts in Ushaia without exception have at least 2 shore lines, some times 4, stored in reels (and one cat had them stored in bags (like spinnaker turtles) on the foredeck, one yacht had shore lines stored in a tall domestic laundry basket. In Sweden tape reels (note the plural) are common, this was the original product from Ultra (their Quickline reel) - also sometime seen in the Med.

I have a nice picture of Hawk (Starzinger) tied up (I think in Labrador) with 4 or 5 shorelines.

People don't carry these shorelines because they are pretty.

We carry one dedicated shore line and can use our spare rode, 40m of nylon and 15m of chain as a second and could cobble together a third. We also carry spare chain pieces, taken from an old rode, to wrap round boulders or trees. And we do use them.

I simply don't see anything heroic about sitting on one anchor with a 70 knot forecast when you can tie to a tree - frankly it beggars belief.

When we have a Storm forecast we move to an anchorage where there is shelter (precisely why would you tay exposed - cruising is about not being on a schedule, not having an itinerary. I simply don't see anything clever about being exposed to 70 knot when a Storm is forecast 2 days in advance and there is a sheltered anchorage within a daytime sail.

Why do people want to give the impression its not good seaman ship to be safe?

Jonathan

Edit,

For the who do think laterally there is an article on anchoring outside the box in the January 2018 issue of Sail

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruising/know-how-expanding-your-anchoring-repertoire

Close edit

 

[Bouba]

Perfect for planting :

A perfect furrow. Like what I used to get with no tide and an eight knot wind!

 

[noelex]

When we have a Storm forecast we move to an anchorage where there is shelter (precisely why would you tay exposed - cruising is about not being on a schedule, not having an itinerary. I simply don't see anything clever about being exposed to 70 knot when a Storm is forecast 2 days in advance and there is a sheltered anchorage within a daytime sail.

The concept that you can escape becoming exposed to strong wind by sailing to a “sheltered” anchorage is false. I have been in plenty of “sheltered” anchorages with some pretty horrendous winds. It is sensible to try and pick the best anchorage when poor conditions are forecast, but don’t expect everything to be serene.

Have a look at this video of Vlicho Bay as an example of what can happen in a “sheltered” anchorage. There are plenty of dragging boats to fit in with theme of the thread:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSB8zE-guFs#fauxfullscreen

Why do people want to give the impression its not good seaman ship to be safe?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting in the thread that it is not good seamanship to be safe, on the contrary.

 

[RupertW]

Shore lines are very common in med and Baltic but impossible in UK where somebody would jump up and down shouting that the rock or tree was private property.

 

[Kukri]

Think we need Frank Holden aka Our Man in Patagonia at this point..

 

[thinwater]

Shore lines are very common in med and Baltic but impossible in UK where somebody would jump up and down shouting that the rock or tree was private property.

That's funny but true.

* I've been yelled at for placing an anchor on a beach, though in that state the wet beach belongs to the state.
* Most of the coves I might use shore ties are either park land or farm land with a wooded boarder (no farmer would care).
* Suppose a line to a stone jetty could make sense in some harbors. I doubt anyone would care.
* I have run lines to old pilings and bulkheads. Often the best way to do that is with a loop of chain slid down to the bottom (no leverage) where it is invisible.

 

[thinwater]

Think we need Frank Holden aka Our Man in Patagonia at this point..

That does suggest the topic of cobbles, shingle, and stony bottoms, since the question is" why do anchors drag." We have some areas like that around here, and some are places I would like to stay.

One option is to find a sand pocket, but you are never sure how deep the sand is. It is also pot luck if the water is less than crystal clear.

Anchors trip because the cobbles rolls. Anchors trip because the wind shifted or the boat bucked and it slid off its hold. What can we do to reduce the chances?
* Very long scope. This is a situation where you do not want the chain coming off the bottom, even for a moment.
* Eliminate yawing. Again, we want to hold the anchor still.
* Multiple anchors. I've used a number of layouts on cobbles and hardpan and have a favorite, but I'm not going to lead that discussion. Much depends on whether anchor can bury.
* Hand-place the anchor. I've done this before. I dropped it in a nice pot hole; held strong, didn't foul. This can be a strong option. Even very big anchors are pretty easy to move diving, since you are weightless.

From what I have seen diving on anchors in such circumstances, excessive chain rode is a great thing.

 

[zoidberg]

At times it's worth reminding ourselves of the good times we've anchored....

A fortunate few might even recognise the whereabouts.

 

[jdc]

A fortunate few might even recognise the whereabouts.

Looks like Tean sound with St Helen's pool beyond (and Great Cheese just behind the boat? - no, that's the other side: I forget: something beginning with G iirc)

 

[Neeves]

At times it's worth reminding ourselves of the good times we've anchored....

A fortunate few might even recognise the whereabouts.

No idea

But looks gorgeous. I like the attention to detail, the anchor sphere in the bow!

Jonathan

 

[Bristolfashion]

Strangely, we appear to be coming to a consensus that anchoring is a black art!

Sometimes I think that a good consistent blow offshore is easier than all that resetting that can occur in more variable conditions. With a good, short fetch, pitching, surging, heaving etc are minimised, and if the worst happens, one generally starts to drag out to sea.

With the modern anchors( mine is a somewhat oversize Manson supreme), a good length of chain and then rope seems to keep snatching down. I might run 30m chain then 10 to 20 m rope - obviously depth dependent. Also saves fiddling with the snubber. It also adds excitement on the first couple of occasions as you test your rope/chain splice!

Fussing about exact positioning works for us. We sat out a massive blow in Tasmania recently, moving just 100m west brought us behind a bar to the north and significantly cut the wave action when the wind gusted northerly.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why do people want to give the impression its not good seaman ship to be safe?

I don't think they do. It's just that as conditions in the UK are generally a wee bit less aggressive than conditions in Patagonia, few people here take the precautions which everyone takes there.

The concept that you can escape becoming exposed to strong wind by sailing to a “sheltered” anchorage is false. I have been in plenty of “sheltered” anchorages with some pretty horrendous winds. It is sensible to try and pick the best anchorage when poor conditions are forecast, but don’t expect everything to be serene.

I agree. To my mind, shelter is from waves, not wind. The only thing that can shelter from wind is a Great Big Hill, and that very often doesn't work because of downwind turbulence. See Loch Scavaig (Loch na Cuile for the pedants) for the classic example of that.

 

[Kukri]

+1.

 

[Stemar]

Yes, that's fine, but while you're in the pub, what's happening with the boat? Do you take it in with you?

She's tucked up on her mooring.

If we're too far from the mooring, I don't do marina's but for a gale, I'll definitely make an exception, though I do recall sitting out a good blow tucked in behind Goatshorm point in Poole Harbour. I don't know what the wind strength was, but my Delta anchor had dug itself in so deep I couldn't see any chain - that's at least 17 metres of rode buried. No chance of pulling it up by hand, we had to motor it out.

 

[NormanS]

She's tucked up on her mooring.

If we're too far from the mooring, I don't do marina's but for a gale, I'll definitely make an exception, though I do recall sitting out a good blow tucked in behind Goatshorm point in Poole Harbour. I don't know what the wind strength was, but my Delta anchor had dug itself in so deep I couldn't see any chain - that's at least 17 metres of rode buried. No chance of pulling it up by hand, we had to motor it out.

Good, that's what anchors are supposed to do.
When we're away cruising, we're a long way away from our mooring. Realistically, our only option is anchoring, and we just have to be prepared to take what's flung at us. There is now an increasing number of pontoons scattered throughout the Scottish Highlands and Islands, some of which confusingly call themselves "Marinas". Many of them are very exposed to certain wind directions, and would be the last place that I would consider for bad weather. We are however, blessed with innumerable good, safe, natural anchorages, so with a little common sense, we can sit out bad weather safely at anchor.