Downsizing to a Wayfarer (dinghy cruisers, please advise..!)

[Seajet]

I've always liked Albacores, and especially their cousin Firef'lys, but

A, very unstable

B, method of construction very dodgy now, falling apart unless in the hands of a specialist.

Even in tip-top condition I wouldn't dream of an Albacore for camping / cruising !


We cooked soup and stew underway in a Fireball but that was in a force1-2.

 

[rwoofer]

I've always liked Albacores, and especially their cousin Firef'lys, but

A, very unstable

B, method of construction very dodgy now, falling apart unless in the hands of a specialist.

Even in tip-top condition I wouldn't dream of an Albacore for camping / cruising !


We cooked soup and stew underway in a Fireball but that was in a force1-2.

In the spectrum on dinghys, I would rate an Albacore as stable. Not at the level of a Wayfarer, which must be the most stable of all, but certainly in the top 20% for stability. The only popular dinghies that I know that are definitely more stable than an Albacore would be a Wanderer, Comet Trio, Laser Stratos and RS Venture. Virtually everything else is less stable including cruising stalwarts such as the Mirror. I should that stability comes in two forms initial and ultimate. The Albacore feels slightly less stable because of its lower initial stability, but it's ultimate stability is right up there.

Although I haven't camped yet I would say it is more than capable. In the Dinghy Cruising Association website they refer to someone who bought a £100 Albacore and successfully cruised it some distances. I think one did the whole of the Baltic.

i still think the Wayfarer is better for cruising, but the Albacore really isn't that far behind.

 

[Greenheart]

The 'labeling' habit is at fault here...because when people who sail in dinghies, don't plan to race, the response of almost everyone else is to label them as having minimal interest in performance, and to believe they'll be best served by the heftiest, stablest, snuggest-rigged design they can think of...and the Wayfarer is the invariable default choice.

No disrespect to Wayfarers, they're terrific boats. And if the OP specifically wants a really stable, very tough and heavy (though still capsizable), completely unsheltered, open-cockpit boat instead of a small ballasted cruiser with its intrinsic security and cabin-comfort, then the Wayfarer may indeed be best for him...

...but if he's determined to have an unballasted boat, lots of less-staid dinghies offer more fun, better mobility ashore and can be mildly modified to make an excellent cruiser.

When I was considering a Wayfarer myself, the small photo below reminded me that any dinghy, including the big W, may heel sharply when singlehanded in a breeze. So if you're happy to forego the self-righting security of ballast, why not look at the full range of dinghy designs - most are far cheaper, lighter and faster than the old sea-school favourite.

I looked at plenty of diverse designs - I quite liked the Finn for its butch rig and reputation, flat-floored cockpit and the open under-deck areas on old examples, which might have made expansive dry-stowage...

...I even looked hard at the Contender - eye-poppingly inappropriate for cruising - but again, the appeal of the idea was the fun that the standard design allows whilst sailing, provided certain accommodation-parameters could be achieved for the mere domestic aspect...such as the need for space to lie down. Unfortunately the Contender's open centreboard-slot meant one would effectively bivouac in a tray of water, with the centreboard necessarily lowered...it really couldn't be less suitable for cruising...

...but that's pretty extreme. Most of the bigger dinghies of traditional design (without open transoms or 'wings') offer a substantial sheltered recess in which to lie down or sit frying eggs. The Wayfarer is great, but it's not the only one which is suitable. The success of dinghy-cruising ambitions must owe more to crews' enthusiasm and readiness to adapt and think practically, than to their sticking rigidly and unimaginatively to a widely-accepted bit of boat-design.

 

[Seajet]

rb_stretch,

if you reckon an Albacore is a stable cruising design off you go, but please have an onboard video camera.

I can think of multitudes of more stable designs, the GP14, Scorpion, Osprey, Hornet, Enterprise, Laser 2000, even a Fireball is probably more stable, I can't think of anything more likely to go zip and end up on top of one short of an International Canoe !

 

[rwoofer]

rb_stretch,

if you reckon an Albacore is a stable cruising design off you go, but please have an onboard video camera.

I can think of multitudes of more stable designs, the GP14, Scorpion, Osprey, Hornet, Enterprise, Laser 2000, even a Fireball is probably more stable, I can't think of anything more likely to go zip and end up on top of one short of an International Canoe !

I already do. It is the most stable dinghy I have ever owned!

Here is a quote from the Hostellers Sailing Club:

"If you want to make long sea passages you will probably choose one of the larger and/or heavier dinghies. However, as discussed above, long sea passages can usually be avoided by doing some road trailing so lightweight dinghies should not be discounted, they are fun to sail in lighter winds and they have advantages in ease of launching, road trailing and recovery, ease of rowing and the possibility of hauling up clear of the water for a comfortable night on board. Also, if you do suffer a capsize, light dinghies can often be easier to right than heavy ones, although this is not necessarily so. Racing dinghies can be used as lightweight cruising dinghies and the older ones can sometimes be purchased remarkably cheaply. Just as an example, I recently met someone cruising aboard an Albacore dinghy which had been purchased in very good condition for 150-00uk£. Don't ask me where to find such bargains, I only know that they do come up from time to time."

 

[quimby]

I'm very much down the budget end of about £600. It's not easy to find wayfarers at this price but it is possible. I'm selling a cabin boat to get this - a Hurley 20. Haven't seen a cheaper drascombe than 4.5k but do love them. The problem with rarer boats is that they're rarer, whereas there do seem to be a lot of Wayfarers around, and few other small boats have track record or miles under their belts that Wayfarers have? (Also have a bit of nostalgia about them in that they're the first boat that I ever sailed as a sixth former on a sailing course...£

A nice little yacht called Lottie is up for grabs!:encouragement: Up your way I think.

 

[TSB240]

An early memory was cruising in an Albacore with my Uncle Aunt and cousin. I seem to remember the early Albacores had a cruising option of a galvanised steel centreboard. Loads of room in the cockpit. I would certainly put it in a much more stable category than a Scorpion or Fireball both of which are much narrower designs and from personal experience of too many years usually ended up getting me swimming whilst being overtaken by Albacores in our club. I did take our family out cruising in a Scorpion but it was a mighty squeeze 4 up!

 

[Seajet]

I already do. It is the most stable dinghy I have ever owned!

Here is a quote from the Hostellers Sailing Club:

"If you want to make long sea passages you will probably choose one of the larger and/or heavier dinghies. However, as discussed above, long sea passages can usually be avoided by doing some road trailing so lightweight dinghies should not be discounted, they are fun to sail in lighter winds and they have advantages in ease of launching, road trailing and recovery, ease of rowing and the possibility of hauling up clear of the water for a comfortable night on board. Also, if you do suffer a capsize, light dinghies can often be easier to right than heavy ones, although this is not necessarily so. Racing dinghies can be used as lightweight cruising dinghies and the older ones can sometimes be purchased remarkably cheaply. Just as an example, I recently met someone cruising aboard an Albacore dinghy which had been purchased in very good condition for 150-00uk£. Don't ask me where to find such bargains, I only know that they do come up from time to time."[/QUOTE

Apart from being neither stable or lightweight, the Albacore is spiffing !

 

[TSB240]

Albacore 109 kilos quite a bit lighter than your Osprey offering tipping the scales at over 130........ Not lightweight like the Scorpion which is an easy two man lift. Seem to remember about 80 odd kilos all in.

 

[Seajet]

It's not much to do with weight, I crewed on a 12 sq metre Sharpie ( lovely boat ) which probably weighed the same as a small lorry but was about 16' long, 3- 4' wide, pencil thin - and very tender !

The big thing about stability is beam and hard chines.

 

[rwoofer]

Whilst beam and chines help it is more to do with hull shape. This is possibly the best article to explain (also shows beam in itself does not necessarily equate to more stability).

http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/guillemot/information/kayak_design/kayak_stability

Not sure anything is going to change your mind though....

 

[rwoofer]

Just thought I should add that the boat in my avatar is a Phantom. It is about 10cm shorter, 10cm wider that an Albacore and has massive great single chines. Net result is that it is far far less stable than an Albacore, which just illustrates how the combination of things (hull shape being high up there) is what counts.

In actual fact my Phantom generally won't stay on it's own without capsizing, which is why I launch straight from the shore-side leaving the trolley in the water.

 

[TSB240]

Has Dan ever weighed his Osprey? With the extra gear it must be getting near the same weight as a Wayfarer!.

 

[Greenheart]

TSB240, I wrote the following before I read your most recent post:

I've often wondered about dinghy-weights - I ain't no Hercules, but I haul my Osprey (very slowly) up the one-in-six slipway ("tacking" as I go, to increase the distance and lessen the incline) without too much difficulty. And mine must be a fair bit heavier than any 134kg race-spec examples. My trolley's an awful weight, too. Maybe I am Hercules!

 

[TSB240]

You need to fill those pop bottles with Helium!

 

[Reptile Smile]

No disrespect to Wayfarers, they're terrific boats. And if the OP specifically wants a really stable, very tough and heavy (though still capsizable), completely unsheltered, open-cockpit boat instead of a small ballasted cruiser with its intrinsic security and cabin-comfort, then the Wayfarer may indeed be best for him...

...but if he's determined to have an unballasted boat, lots of less-staid dinghies offer more fun, better mobility ashore and can be mildly modified to make an excellent cruiser.

The thing is, I keep returning to the tiny amount of nights I sleep on the boat (on average, to date, one night per year) compared to the amount of sailing I do. I have been guilty in the past, as I suspect many, perhaps most, have been, of putting too much emphasis on cabins and interiors, and not enough on getting enough sailing done. I see the dinghy as a way round this.

I am, I suppose, coming round to the idea of keeping the Hurley and getting a dinghy as well. Need to find somewhere to keep it, but that's true of anything on a trailer, and, in the end, I don't really care that much what I sail. It may well come down much more to the trailer and cost than it does to the boat itself. GP14s are plentiful, big enough, wooden and in budget. They may well be in the lead at the moment. If only they were gaff rigged...

Quimby - Lottie..? Not really my thing, I'm afraid...

 

[Bi111ion]

My father George Breckon was a Wayfarer cruiser. With his friend Peter Combs they sailed "Nomad" on passages Southampton Cherbourg and along the S coast Cornwall to Hamble. The advantage of the (Mk I) Wayfarer was that it was fast, had waterproof lockers and unlike the later models was not prone to inversion due to side buoyancy tanks. The biggest problem back in the 70s was a lack of waterproof containers and they did capsize once with full cruising gear, rounding Hurst Point I think. My dad was a meticulous planner and these passages were only safely possible because he waited for the right weather window. They had a longshaft Seagull outboard. Terrible thing. Noisy, extremely uneconomical and not especially effective at propelling the boat either.


As kids we went coastal cruising with him a bit, sleeping under the boom tent.

I think you have to be very hardy, and possibly quite foolhardy to make offshore passages in a Wayfarer. Coastal cruising getting up secluded creeks and sleeping under the tent while at anchor can be great. When I was old enough (16) I bought an old YW Rambler. Basically a 17 foot dinghy with a small cabin and a steel centre plate. She was called "Pub Hunter" and even better for Solent creek exploration.

Edit. The other thing about the Wayfarer Mk1 was the floor was nice and flat and the thwart high enough to allow you to lie down and sleep. As an 11yo I went river cruising in a Mirror, but I had to curl up on the floor of that.

 

[Greenheart]

You need to fill those pop bottles with Helium!

The thought of my new 4kg grapnel and the hefty marine-ply draining floor I'm planning to add, does make me worry a bit about where the weight-limit is...

...once up the beach, I take lots of short running steps to tow the boat steadily up the significant rise in the ground to where my parking-spot is...

...often somebody will offer assistance, but I'm happy to know I haven't actually needed it, so far. In future I may end up carrying the heavy bits ashore separately.

I'm afraid with my contributions, this thread is becoming less and less about the OP's next boat. But considering how inexpensive dinghies are at present, perhaps his best bet would be to keep his current boat on its mooring, and also acquire a small, easily-handled dinghy for a few hours' not-too-serious sailing whenever he has limited time available...

...that way, he'll keep the cabin-boat for weekends, holidays and overnights on board, but needn't feel that every day afloat will involve moving the yacht.

 

[rwoofer]

The thing is, I keep returning to the tiny amount of nights I sleep on the boat (on average, to date, one night per year) compared to the amount of sailing I do. I have been guilty in the past, as I suspect many, perhaps most, have been, of putting too much emphasis on cabins and interiors, and not enough on getting enough sailing done. I see the dinghy as a way round this.

I am, I suppose, coming round to the idea of keeping the Hurley and getting a dinghy as well. Need to find somewhere to keep it, but that's true of anything on a trailer, and, in the end, I don't really care that much what I sail. It may well come down much more to the trailer and cost than it does to the boat itself. GP14s are plentiful, big enough, wooden and in budget. They may well be in the lead at the moment. If only they were gaff rigged...

Quimby - Lottie..? Not really my thing, I'm afraid...

That does sound the most sensible option and the GP14 is another good, cheap choice.

 

[chrishscorp]

Hi all,

Your thoughts on this would be gratefully received.

After going through 4 cheap boats in 3 seasons, I've slowly come to realise over time that the kind that over winter, I have a propensity for visualising the cruising I will be doing in the following year, including sailing to Ireland, France, sleeping on board lots with my wife, and other long-distance and residential type things.

This never happens.

What I actually need is to simplify and downsize. Something trailerable, and also workable on at home, would be far more use to me than something large. Almost all of my sailing is single-handed anyway. I'm thinking very much about a Wayfarer. I would rather like to return to a wooden boat, and I know that it's a faff launching and recovering, but I think for me it's the best compromise. A bit of Summertime camp-on-the-beach or in the cockpit is stil available, and I preserve the docile stability as much as poss. I'm no racer - I'm a single-handed resilient potterer. Over April-Oct it would be on my mooring, and over Winter it would be on a trailer to be worked on.

Some thoughts/questions:

1) Are electrics too much of a pain? I would rather like them for nav lights and electric pump. The problem is, if it stays on a mooring, it needs to have a cover, and then where would a solar panel go

Solar panel will fit to front decks easily though on occasion i had to walk over them whilst sailing so you could fit a battery and controller. would be wary of running cables inside mast the section is small you will foul the halyards, run on the outside. Did consider leaving ours on a mooring but i didnt think it was worth the hastle of sorting out an auto bilge pump

2) I am no Frank Dye, and for me an outboard is essential - particularly in the Bristol Channel where I sail. What size? I have a 4hp two stroke - is that too big (and more importantly, heavy?)
we used a mariner 3.3 hp pushed our wayfarer along nicely and was quite economical, so probably about the right size.

3) Pie in the sky time - do such things as IP67 screens exist, such that I could connect one to a Raspberry Pi for OpenCPN? Don't know if anyone's used such a thing in an open day boat, and I accept it would be a lot easier to put my iPad in a plastic bag. Just wondering...

4) I'd really like to gaff-rig it, but it's largely an aesthetic thing. I've never sailed anything gaff-rigged. I just like trad lookng boats, and I like wooden sparss. Pointless expense, or fun to do for a thing of beauty?
I would not mess with the rig, she will sail fine as is, they can be a handful for a single handler, i have also seen two capsize and turn turtle, one was a friend, the only way to bail it out in a chop in Chichester harbour was to beach her and bucket her out. If i was sailing her for more than a potter about or a race, i would be paying serious attention to flotation and watertight compartments.



Any thoughts would be gratefully received.

You may find in practicality that a small day cruiser is the route forwards.