Downsizing to a Wayfarer (dinghy cruisers, please advise..!)

[Reptile Smile]

I'd say look to your Hurley 20 and devise easier methods for her and SWMBO to use a mooring

but I didn't quite understand why his current boat isn't close to perfect for his purposes

Oh, believe me, there's nothing wrong with my current situation. I currently have a stunningly beautiful trot mooring in the Bristol Channel that costs me approx £60 per year. Over the last 3 years I have sailed 610 miles form that mooring, with 320 of them single-handed, in: a Foxcub (cost £400 - no trailer, wonderful boat, entirely Spartan inside,,used it with a grumpy seagull I bought for £100, sold boat for £400 to fund...); a Caprice (cost £650 on trailer, trailer was a caravan base, Caprice was a disaster. Useless boat (that example was). Sold it for £400 to buy...); an Eventide (absolute thing of wonder - stunner - beautiful with diesel inboard for £450, I believe, or something like that. Finally accepted that a ply boat was too hard to maintain moored away from me with no easy way of getting it out, and the inside needed totally doing again. Would have another Eventide or other Maurice Griffiths again in the future in a heartbeat. Sold for £400 to buy...); a Hurley 20, boat through blind auction in my club for £210. Great boat, needs work, particularly inside, but sails fine.)

You can seen I'm no stranger to cheap sailing, or sailing (or indeed mooring) single-handed, and that, as Dan says, I'm pretty open-minded about boats. I also refute the idea that you can't sail on a budget.

My problems haven't so much been about trailer sailing - that's not what I want to do. It's about having the capacity and ability to when I want to - whether to go somewhere else, or for winter maintenance. I'd still like to leave her on my mooring, which is, of course, on one of the most demanding stretches of water in the British Isles. I just know that I don't do a lot of sleeping on board - of 35 days sailing in the last 3 years, my logbook says that 4 of them have been on board. I'm prepared to sacrifice the cabin for that, in return for portability - not that the boats the other gentlemen have suggested aren't portable. It's just that they're not very common. I presume a Leisure 17 could be added? Which are much more common?

So in the end, what this exercise has been and is about is about a cold, hard analytic look at my logbook, and thinking about what kind of sailing I've actually done for the last 3 years, not would I like to do, or even what do I remember as having done.

Does that make sense?

 

[Greenheart]

Makes good sense to me, Mr Reptile, very clearly explained. I reckon the only critical decision you need to make regarding dinghies, (sorry if you've already covered it) is whether you really insist on keeping her on a mooring.

I don't know the Bristol Channel, but the range of dinghies which can be safely left afloat in an exposed tideway are very few, if any exist. Some degree of self-righting would be needed if the boat isn't to be at ongoing risk of rolling over, where she may present a hazard to others too.

Keeping a dinghy on shore in a club-pound can't be much cheaper than your present mooring, and much more labour. I reckon stay with a mini-cruiser.

 

[Kelpie]

Hmmm, that mooring may be a bit exposed for a dinghy. A self draining Wayfarer would be about as robust as you could hope for.

Did I mention that mine is for sale...

 

[Reptile Smile]

No, the mooring itself is remarkably protected. It's in a creek off the main river (though there's no dinghy compound or anything like that. I'm not certain I'd be allowed to keep a dinghy out of the water (and I'm the commodore ;-) ) - the land isn't ours - but I believe I'm ok on the 'protected mooring' front, and in the 50s (far as I know), dinghies were kept on our moorings before bit by bit, it became, very organically, a club for cruisers rather than racers. I think with a cover on, it'll be fine - it's fairly sheltered in most conditions, but obviously, there's a degree of "the more robust, the better", but to be honest I wouldn't even be too worried about leaving a Mirror on the mooring. Just with the Mirror, I'm not sure there's a whole heap of point...

 

[Trop Cher]

Enjoying this thread.
How do a Hunter 490 and a Westerly Nimrod compare to a Hunter 19/Europa?
I've sailed a Europa before and I'm just curious.

 

[Greenheart]

A very sheltered creek certainly makes a dinghy into a workable proposition on a mooring.

I suppose even a dinghy which isn't self-draining could be fitted with a solar trickle-charger, small battery and small electric pump with float-switch.

May sound a bit elaborate, but as long as the mooring isn't under attack from vandals or thieves, it would reduce the necessity to visit the boat after every shower.

I'll try to find the vid of a Mirror-sailor who fitted an electric pump...

...no luck, I can't find the link on my phone...but Google Youtube Mirror mods Part 2

 

[Reptile Smile]

I'll try to find the vid of a Mirror-sailor who fitted an electric pump...

This, I believe, Dan..?

http://youtu.be/R1Ny7r9P5OQ?t=3m1s

I haven't chalked the Mirror off my short list (not least because of the effect The Unlikely Voyage of Jack de Crow had on me!). There are hundreds around in my price range, at least... But - so little room, compared to a Wayfarer. Though - as Jack de Crow shows, sleeping in them is perfectly feasible...

Hmm. Decisions, decisions (there's also one coming up at my club at a bargain price which is very tempting...)

 

[Kelpie]

My Wayfarer capsized once on its mooring (this was back when I had a MKI). I was busy for more than two weeks and didn't get out to bail her, then a mini tornado swept through the moorings. Mine was the only one to go over. Some minor damage, the halyard chafed through where the masthead rubbed on the seabed, and the rowlocks fell out.

I know people whose Wayfarers have lived on a mooring for most of the last ten years, none of them have ever capsized. A running mooring helps because it makes bailing out very easy.

A Drainman pump, or one of the more fragile wave pumps, would be a big help if you can't visit the boat very often.

 

[Greenheart]

Think seriously about choosing a boat with lying-down space on the cockpit floor. Much nicer than carrying long boards to bridge over the typically-restrictive small dinghy's cockpit space. Before I bought the Osprey, I really fancied an Albacore, and the design would still be high on my list, especially now I know how much less volatile a two-man boat feels with a seriously-reefed mainsail and roller-genoa.

The Albacore's high freeboard and spacious cockpit makes her look pretty good for cruising, to me. Although, there were doubts about her form stability when I said so two years ago...and that might be an issue if she were left unattended on a mooring.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Enjoying this thread.
How do a Hunter 490 and a Westerly Nimrod compare to a Hunter 19/Europa?
I've sailed a Europa before and I'm just curious.

I've never sailed a 19/Europa, but I have been in one. The 490 is quite a lot smaller - 3' really matters at that size - and the cabin is very small, though cosy. Think "three person tent" size.

It was designed as a smaller sister to the 19/Europa, but in almost all respects it's a small Anderson 22. The really big difference from the 19/Europa, of course, is that the 490 has a lifting keel. At that size it makes a lot of sense, because towing a dinghy (you can't possible stow one aboard) behind a 16' boat is a tad tricky. I have a Sportyak as a tender, but that's really just for getting out to the mooring. When I want to land anywhere I lift the keel and run her ashore. The bulb at the bottom means she still needs 18" or so to float, but I can hop over the side and walk ashore without getting my shorts wet.

I've spent a lot of nights aboard, but only at the centre where I keep her, so she has simply been sleeping accommodation. This year she's getting an Origo stove and a bucket, so we can go further afield for nights.

 

[Bergamot]

I have a Leisure 17 which I moor during the summer (for a lot more than £60 !!) and trail home over the winter to work on and generally improve. She is very stable (45% ballast ratio) and has a comfortable cockpit and is surprising roomy for two. She can sleep four, but it would be a bit too intimate for me. She is no racer but is very satisfying to sail. My boat is now over 40 years old and is still in her original gel coat and scrubs up well. She is easy to maintain and has lots of character. There are plenty about in you price bracket. I was fortunate as my boat was given to me by an old second world war royal navy shipmate of my father who is now in his nineties and still going strong. My boat is named after their ship - HMS Bergamot, a flower class corvette. There is also a very active and helpful owners association which even has a Leisure 17 owners manual. The Hunter 490 looks lovely. We are all biased by our experiences but I would not swap my little cruiser. Good luck with your search.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So in the end, what this exercise has been and is about is about a cold, hard analytic look at my logbook, and thinking about what kind of sailing I've actually done for the last 3 years, not would I like to do, or even what do I remember as having done.

Does that make sense?

It does, but I can't help feeling that your proposed solution will neatly avoid all the benefits of swinging mooring (being able to keep a bigger boat convenient) and all the benefits of a dinghy (low costs and easy transport to different places).

 

[Seajet]

It does, but I can't help feeling that your proposed solution will neatly avoid all the benefits of swinging mooring (being able to keep a bigger boat convenient) and all the benefits of a dinghy (low costs and easy transport to different places).

+1, keep your Hurley 20 !

A chum at my club has one and is delighted with her, I could put you in touch to swap ideas if you like.

 

[Greenheart]

I wonder, about the supposed benefits of trailing, and of keeping the boat ashore.

If a man gets as much fun from fixing, painting, sanding and maintaining his boat, it makes sense for it to be conveniently taken home...

...but if the main focus of ownership is the sailing itself, I reckon keeping the boat afloat and ready to sail with minimal delay and preparation, is vastly preferable. Especially if it's as cheap as the OP's mooring. I doubt he'll spend more time aboard a boat which he has to launch, than the boat he already keeps ready to sail away...

...I like to claim that I can have the Osprey afloat and sailing within 15 minutes of getting to the club...but that would leave so many details unchecked and so much mess in ugly heaps around my corner of the dinghy-park, that it isn't really accurate.

Only the OP really knows how he wants to spend his boat-time. I realised as last summer wore on without me having launched, that each day at the boat was another enjoyable relaxed day of DIY, engrossing in itself, regardless of the ultimate plan. Only when I did finally launch did I realise how many glorious summer weeks I'd wasted, tinkering.

So I reckon anything which delays or obstructs actual time on board a boat, is bad news. If the boat is afloat, especially with a cosy cabin, then a day on board can still be spent sanding, varnishing etc, even in cruddy weather. I may be a dinghy-sailor but my vote goes for a mini-cruiser.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I wonder, about the supposed benefits of trailing, and of keeping the boat ashore.

If a man gets as much fun from fixing, painting, sanding and maintaining his boat, it makes sense for it to be conveniently taken home...

...but if the main focus of ownership is the sailing itself, I reckon keeping the boat afloat and ready to sail with minimal delay and preparation, is vastly preferable. Especially if it's as cheap as the OP's mooring. I doubt he'll spend more time aboard a boat which he has to launch, than the boat he already keeps ready to sail away...

I agree. That's why I think he shouldn't so rapidly discount the other advantage of a mooring - the ability to have a slightly bigger boat convenient. One doesn't have to use the cabin, but it's nice to have.

 

[graham]

I went down this road a few years ago and sold my 25 ft fin keel yacht and bought a Voyager 14 .

The voyager has a small two berth cabin and can be towed behind a small car. I towed it away a few times to explore Estuaries not easilly accessible by larger boats but mostly just launched and recovered from my club slipway .

The hassle of launching and recovering and the loss of the comfortable cabin eventually made me think of another cruising yacht.

The boat we sold came on the market so we bought her back again .

You might think having the boat home to work on will improve your relationship with your partner but in reallity you will find it a great temptation to pop out to the boat to do odd jobs so may spend even less time together.

Voyager 14 twin keel yacht.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I went down this road a few years ago and sold my 25 ft fin keel yacht and bought a Voyager 14 .

The voyager has a small two berth cabin and can be towed behind a small car. I towed it away a few times to explore Estuaries not easilly accessible by larger boats but mostly just launched and recovered from my club slipway .

The hassle of launching and recovering and the loss of the comfortable cabin eventually made me think of another cruising yacht.

The boat we sold came on the market so we bought her back again .

You might think having the boat home to work on will improve your relationship with your partner but in reallity you will find it a great temptation to pop out to the boat to do odd jobs so may spend even less time together.

Voyager 14 twin keel yacht.

Nice boat.

I like the nifty system of managing the hanked jib which obviously saves space down below.

Did you make it yourself or hand the project over to the wife ?

Doh................... You have blue sails ! Another age experience.................

 

[Seajet]

I can't help thinking Graham's experience is akin to wives moaning ' he's always in his shed ! '.

I'm certainly not calling the Voyager that, a good fun boat, just an observation.

I think Dan is being very honest here, it's a lovely idea cruising an Osprey, I've done it myself, but it's very weather restricted - I can forecast the odd trip home by local ferry such as IOW if the boat can be left safely.

Mini cruisers like the Hunter 490 or ideally Hunter 19 / Europa can take far more punishment than the average mortal, and are a lot of fun in normal conditions with enough speed to go places.

Moorings even in Chichester Harbour need not be expensive as long as the boat can dry out on soft mud, which is a jolly useful ability when cruising too.

 

[Greenheart]

While I was looking for something completely unrelated, I came across an old thread from over two years ago, strikingly similar in theme to this thread...I was particularly wondering about the safety of dinghies left afloat... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...left-on-moorings-excluding-Wayf-amp-Wanderers

...it's an often entertaining read, with some interesting additions to this current thread. It's especially fun to re-read for me, knowing that three months after asking the question, I acquired my Osprey.

 

[rwoofer]

Think seriously about choosing a boat with lying-down space on the cockpit floor. Much nicer than carrying long boards to bridge over the typically-restrictive small dinghy's cockpit space. Before I bought the Osprey, I really fancied an Albacore, and the design would still be high on my list, especially now I know how much less volatile a two-man boat feels with a seriously-reefed mainsail and roller-genoa.

The Albacore's high freeboard and spacious cockpit makes her look pretty good for cruising, to me. Although, there were doubts about her form stability when I said so two years ago...and that might be an issue if she were left unattended on a mooring.

Was thinking of suggesting an Albacore myself. As you say, not as stable as a Wayfarer, but many other benefits. Prices vary from free upwards- there was a free wooden one on the class website until a few weeks ago. Seen a few around the £250/£500 as well.