Advise on Two project boats please.

duncan99210

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Hmmm, when the Admiral decided to finally go to University I realised I'd be left at a loose end for large lumps of time. So I bought a Hurely 18 in need of a good deal of TLC, but no where near as much as either of the boaats in the OP. It cost a fair bit of money to get it on the water and a winters hard work. Great fun sailing it over the next few years but it ended up costing far more than it was worth, so I sold it a couple of years back.
So what? Well the OP would do well to heed the advice to dump both these boats and seek one which needs a good deal less work and money.
 
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OCuea

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As above really, Some people like sailing, some only like working on boats and some have to work on boats to get them to sail. I saw a boat for a few thousand but dismissed it. A few years later it was up for under a grand and was ready to go with lots of desirable items so I bought it. There is even a book written called something like ‘ but cheap, sail now’. Probably on Amazon.
 

Egret

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Linking back to #11, there is a fleet of Gems at Manningtree which are kept afloat on swinging moorings (relatively sheltered) so don't have to be recovered onto trailers every time. All depends on whether it has all the bits, in good condition, and ready to go. Sonata's ready to go can also be good value if you don't mind the keel.
 
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OCuea

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Linking back to #11, there is a fleet of Gems at Manningtree which are kept afloat on moorings (relatively sheltered) so don't have to be recovered onto trailers every time. All depends on whether it has all the bits, in good condition, and ready to go. Sonata's ready to go can also be good value if you don't mind the keel.
Missed post 11. What a great looking boat. Hope op is looking too.
 

Sea Food Junkie

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Thanks for all the feedback. It is surprising to me how little value is in the Hurley, as i thought it was admired in the sailing circles more than it has been. I will probably try and give the Hurley a new home and do minimal work on the Mirror to get it on the water, as that's what my goal for this year. I forgot to mention that the Mirror is a MK1. An investment in an outboard engine and electronics can be removed and reused on the next boat in the future. I don't mind sailing a tatty boat to get me started in the sport. Having a trailer of 751kg is a legal requirement to have brakes and so, this is something that needs investigating. I have a SWB van, so towing is not a problem.
 

Tranona

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Don't expect too much from the Mirror. It needed the inboard engine because the sailing performance is so poor. Look for an 8hp engine, long shaft so that the controls are higher up. Make sure you set the bracket at the right height so the propeller is properly immersed. You don't say where you intend using it, but one would not want to stray far from sheltered water.
 

oldmanofthehills

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----. You must get brakes on the trailer as this is essential to safety and legality. Do the very best job you can and don't try and skimp on materials and equipment. Also enjoy the work.
As the Mirror Offshore weighs about a ton, brakes are a legal requirement and also slightly reduce down force on the tow bar. The tow bar load is significant and light vehicles can even have their front wheels grip on road reduced by such forces particularly when braking due to seesaw effect.

I hope the OP can get old trailer fixed as my last trailer cost as much as the boat - though it did have nice twin wheels to ease moving it without car.
 

ridgy

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The reason that everyone is down on the Hurley is that you could just go and buy something like this:
Hurley 20 Bilge Keel – Doug Edwards Yachts

That is probably about as good as it gets with a tidy interior,.newish sails and engine. Obviously we don't know what it sold for, maybe 1600 or so.

If you bought new sails you would probably spend that amount just on them and you'd still have an engineless wreck.

They were good boats in their day, I used to have a Hurley 22 but cramped and slow by modern standards.

You don't say where the boats are. If they are in your garden where you can work at leisure then why not crack on. If you have to load the van up and travel to a boat yard each time then that's going to be hard not to mention storage fees.
 

justanothersailboat

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I'm normally a much bigger fan of doing up old boats than many people here, but I'm sorry to say this seems like a bad pair of options to start from.

Electronics (don't need much) and running rigging (refresh easy on a small boat and nearly always needed) are a distraction. The engine and the stuff needed particularly for sailing on a sailing boat - mast, rigging, sails, deck hardware... - comes to so big a fraction of its value that it's probably not worth going into this unless you end up with a boat that's rewarding to actually sail. On that basis the Mirror doesn't sound hugely promising. The Hurley sounds like it's a bit too far gone.
 

Stemar

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I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of members here have no interest in boat building and do not understand the satisfaction that building something yourself brings so no surprise on the general reaction. For many it is all down to money. In my opinion this is a hobby or sport to be enjoyed, not a financial calculation.
I would go with the Mirror as they still have some credence as nice boats despite their age. You must get brakes on the trailer as this is essential to safety and legality. Do the very best job you can and don't try and skimp on materials and equipment. Also enjoy the work.
ISTM that the only sensible advice one can give to someone thinking of taking on a project is, don't. It's rarely viable from an economic point of view, and always takes far longer than expected. If they take that advice, we've saved them a lot of hard work, money and heartbreak. If they don't take it, then they're going into it with their eyes open, and it's just possible that they have the special kind of insanity that will see them through and, when they do get there, they'll be blessed with an intimate knowledge of the boat and all its systems.

Was it sensible for Leo to take on Tally Ho? Absolutely not. What he bought was barely any use for firewood, and that's where almost all of what he bought ended up, literally or figuratively. He's mad, but he saw it through and has a beautiful boat at the end of it. Some mad folk need to be locked up, others need to be saluted. I salute you Leo.
 

Minerva

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I’m a somewhat more liberal romantic and I can see the appeal in a project, and have taken one on in the past and would be willing to do it again. It can be a good way to spread to cost of the boat over a few years and have it set up exactly as you would like.

However there are two key criteria it has to meet - firstly the boat has to be sailable at the start of and throughout the project. Sail a bit, see what most pressing to upgrade, sail a bit more, do up a bit more etc with bigger projects being done each winter.

Secondly, the boat to take on is one that has a desirable attributes to be worth it. Have real row away factor at the end, something to be proud of and to cherish.

Sad to say - neither the Hurley 20 (its the 22 that’s the ‘classic’ Hurley fwiw) or a mirror offshore meet those criteria imo.

They were and still are ugly, crap, cramped and cheap boats that don’t sail particularly well and you’ll want move on to something a bit better very soon, only you’ll have to sell at a considerable loss and so have a smaller available pot to spend next year…
 

Egret

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Where are you going to be based?

If a sheltered place with a swinging mooring and a bit of space around, or a jetty to push away from, and a pair of oars, sculling oar or quant, you might be able to manage just by sailing to start with. Many do where I am. Much more civilised than being dependent on an engine.

There are people who have quite happily spent their entire life sailing little boats like yours on rivers and sheltered estuaries, without ever venturing out onto the deep sea, so good luck.

Try it for one season, gently at first until you are confident with how it performs, without spending more than you can afford to write off on non transferable components - like holiday money - gone when holiday over - then it will become clearer whether it is fine or whether you would like bigger, more luxurious inside, or faster, better sailing performance. I worked out my boating costs about the same as a cup of Costa Coffee a day, which is not a lot, and would be the same if the boat had zero value.

Maybe restore both without spending too much. There is another thread about restoring old boats rather than scrapping them, so you should be congratulated for your endeavours.
 
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Stemar

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Where are you going to be based?

If a sheltered place with a swinging mooring and a bit of space around, or a jetty to push away from, and a pair of oars, sculling oar or quant, you might be able to manage just by sailing to start with. Many do where I am. Much more civilised than being dependent on an engine.

There are people who have quite happily spent their entire life sailing little boats like yours on rivers and sheltered estuaries, without ever venturing out onto the deep sea, so good luck.
People have been doing this for millennia, but they've also been sailing without lifejackets. A 3.5hp outboard would push either of these boats along quite happily, and would make a huge difference to both safety and enjoyment, and a decent second hand one needn't break the bank.
 

Sea Food Junkie

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I am looking to take the boat to slipways and travel around to different parts of England. I live in the Northwest which has a lot of sand banks. River Mersey is too busy for my liking and very strong currents. The river Dee may be an option for some practice. I was thinking of a Tohatsu 4 to 6hp engine with long shaft. An engine I can also take off and use on a smaller boat would be great. Electric Epropulsion navy is a tempting option, but expensive when you add up the whole system, then if it lasts a long time it may be a good future investment. I feel the Mirror offshore will be a lot less hassle to fix up to a sailing standard. It is on my drive and so, it is easy to chip away at jobs when time is free. So then, I try and sort brakes, then make up cables for standing rigging and order rope for running rigging. Sounds easy, but somehow I think its not going to be that simple. Life :p
 

Hot Property

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Thanks for all the feedback. It is surprising to me how little value is in the Hurley, as i thought it was admired in the sailing circles more than it has been. I will probably try and give the Hurley a new home and do minimal work on the Mirror to get it on the water, as that's what my goal for this year. I forgot to mention that the Mirror is a MK1. An investment in an outboard engine and electronics can be removed and reused on the next boat in the future. I don't mind sailing a tatty boat to get me started in the sport. Having a trailer of 751kg is a legal requirement to have brakes and so, this is something that needs investigating. I have a SWB van, so towing is not a problem.

If it's any help I've just spent £1,300 on getting my 1800 kg trailer legal for towing!!

New coupling, brake mechanism in drums, brake shoes, cables, bearings light board numerous fixings, water flush etc.
 

Sea Food Junkie

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If it's any help I've just spent £1,300 on getting my 1800 kg trailer legal for towing!!

New coupling, brake mechanism in drums, brake shoes, cables, bearings light board numerous fixings, water flush etc.
Thankfully, I am good at servicing my own equipment, but its the age of the trailer and finding the parts that bothers me the most at the moment. Thanks for the cost example though. I am sure I could find two braked suspension units for a lot less to fix my trailer I hope.🤞
 
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