DIY gas work = DIE gas work

[onesea]

one is too many, either way

Shock news for you.. I do not think you should be on boats...

As far as I am aware more people are killed in dinghy accidents falling off marina pontoons lets call it safe access to boats than gas each year....

My conclusion is you should not go on boats if your not prepared to take the risk!

I have gas on my boat, I have fitted a gas locker and gas piping on my previous boat. Yes the Gas locker was not to modern standards but it was better than the early 70's as built gas system.

I know one person who has had nasty gas explosion on a boat, he was great mentor when it came to gas safety on boats. He still did not insist on professionals just a competent person.

If you really are that superior to the rest of us and want to help start giving out good sensible advice.

If not stay away from boats I get the feeling if you had your way the boat would be designed around the gas system not its true purpose of going to sea.

 

[RogerMayne]

A compression fitting is a compression fitting;an end feed is an end feed;a Yorkshire fitting is a Yorkshire fitting.
Either you make the joint properly and it is gas tight or you botch it and it leaks.
I was trained by my dad for whom a badly made fitting could mean a dead Spitfire pilot or a dead Lancaster crew.
I also was trained in good soldering techniques in metalwork lessons at school.
You do not need to have gone through a training course to be a good plumber and quite frankly I have seen some horrendous plumbing carried out by so called professionals.

Here is a good example of bad advice. I don't care how good your soldering is, you can't use soldered joints on a boat!

I like this quote from sailing legend

"Ignorance isn't what you don`t know, but what you think you know that is incorrect".

Sums it up nicely

 

[pcatterall]

Here is a good example of bad advice. I don't care how good your soldering is, you can't use soldered joints on a boat!

I like this quote from sailing legend

"Ignorance isn't what you don`t know, but what you think you know that is incorrect".

Sums it up nicely

err? ffill does not say he uses soldered joints on boats only that he was trained in soldering techniques.
gas is dangerous and very dangerous on boats. However there are a lot of sermons preached by professionals where many of us suspect the real aim is not safety but defending their monopoly position.

 

[RogerMayne]

Shock news for you.. I do not think you should be on boats...

As far as I am aware more people are killed in dinghy accidents falling off marina pontoons lets call it safe access to boats than gas each year....

My conclusion is you should not go on boats if your not prepared to take the risk!

I have gas on my boat, I have fitted a gas locker and gas piping on my previous boat. Yes the Gas locker was not to modern standards but it was better than the early 70's as built gas system.

I know one person who has had nasty gas explosion on a boat, he was great mentor when it came to gas safety on boats. He still did not insist on professionals just a competent person.

If you really are that superior to the rest of us and want to help start giving out good sensible advice.

If not stay away from boats I get the feeling if you had your way the boat would be designed around the gas system not its true purpose of going to sea.

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people as it gets twisted misquoted and over time will become out of date.
Standards and best practice change over time, usually as a result of a fatal accident, to reduce as far as possible dangerous situations that have been proven killers.
The only advice I can give you is get a CO alarm, a flammable gas alarm and read the current best practice to see how compliant your installation is. If it is not safe get someone who knows what they are doing to make it safe.

 

[sailorman]

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people as it gets twisted misquoted and over time will become out of date.
Standards and best practice change over time, usually as a result of a fatal accident, to reduce as far as possible dangerous situations that have been proven killers.
The only advice I can give you is get a CO alarm, a flammable gas alarm and read the current best practice to see how compliant your installation is. If it is not safe get someone who knows what they are doing to make it safe.

In the recent words of CMD " lessons will be learned"

 

[jerrytug]

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people as it gets twisted misquoted and over time will become out of date.
Standards and best practice change over time, usually as a result of a fatal accident, to reduce as far as possible dangerous situations that have been proven killers.
The only advice I can give you is get a CO alarm, a flammable gas alarm and read the current best practice to see how compliant your installation is. If it is not safe get someone who knows what they are doing to make it safe.

"Compliant"? No seagoing yacht gas installation needs to comply with anything, unless the yacht is coded for commercial use, and even then it's not exactly complicated. If you don't know that simple fact, don't come on here with your silly scare stories touting for business.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Do you really think you can learn, in one or two postings, ALL that is needed to INSTALL a new gas system safely - not just change an old gas pipe in a sealed locker out in the cockpit.

That depends on the system. One or two postings wouldn't be enough, but a simple gas locker - pipe - hose - cooker setup is not complicated and a reasonably intelligent person taking reasonable care should be able to do it safely.

The OP's post was about GAS - I would suggest that AC work is even more dangerous and there are certainly many reported incidents of deaths from botched work, by professionals and by DIYers.

Mains electrical work is also not rocket science, but I agree with you that the risks are probably greater. You can't smell electricity leaking out.

 

[JumbleDuck]

one is too many, either way

OK, so if you think I should not do gas work because one DIY-related death in a hundred years is too many, do you also think that you should not do gas work because one professional-related death in a hundred years is too many?

 

[Neil]

In Ireland all gas work must be done by an Registered Gas Installer (RGI). Many that do the course are on the dole and are not even plumbers. My son's gas boiler central heating system was installed by a RGI but he was very dubious and got it independently inspected and it was found to have two Critical Faults and two Serious Faults. He had him struck off the register. I had three RGI's in to look at my faulty boiler, none of which could find the fault. One lied about a leaking heat exchanger, to try an get me to buy a new boiler. However, I was able to download the fitting instructions, which included a troubleshooting flow diagram, and armed with my multimeter, diagnosed the problem, bought the part off ebay and sorted it. RGI's =0, Neil 3.

 

[KellysEye]

>How about all the people who have died as a result of bodged "professional" installations?

Please tell how many, when and where?

I re plumbed our boat with compression fittings because the copper pipes were soldered and the vibration made them leak. However I wouldn't touch gas plumbing and believe no amateur plumber should. As I said in an earlier thread when we had our gas checked by a professional he found chafe in the rubber pipe from the on/off switch to the cooker and fitted an armoured pipe. If he hadn't found that I dread to think what would have happened, even with a gas alarm.

 

[Neil_Y]

Gas, electricity, water, wind, air(when diving) all very dangerous in the wrong hands.

On a lighter note, I used to work with Silane and arsine in the semiconductor industry, if you get a leak with Silane it self ignited in atmosphere and if you had a leak with arsine bits of you died, arsine was scary stuff smell no colour...someone once let some silane undiluted up the chimney, the flame was apparently 20m high scared the neighbours!

 

[Rigger Mortice]

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people as it gets twisted misquoted and over time will become out of date.

I'ld be interested to see where that particular rule is laid down. It sounds more like an attempt to promote a closed shop than a bit of genuine law.

 

[sailorman]

>How about all the people who have died as a result of bodged "professional" installations?

Please tell how many, when and where?

I re plumbed our boat with compression fittings because the copper pipes were soldered and the vibration made them leak. However I wouldn't touch gas plumbing and believe no amateur plumber should. As I said in an earlier thread when we had our gas checked by a professional he found chafe in the rubber pipe from the on/off switch to the cooker and fitted an armoured pipe. If he hadn't found that I dread to think what would have happened, even with a gas alarm.

armoured pipe cooker connection is not a requirement & some believe unsafe as the actual gas pipe cannot be examined as your chafed one was

 

[JumbleDuck]

As I said in an earlier thread when we had our gas checked by a professional he found chafe in the rubber pipe from the on/off switch to the cooker and fitted an armoured pipe. If he hadn't found that I dread to think what would have happened, even with a gas alarm.

Had you checked the pipe and failed to spot the chafing?

 

[Jassira]

I know several guys that have done Corgi /Gas Safe course and are qualified to work on gas. They are mostly guys who have worked in building/plumbing all their working lives then one day, because of some healthy and safety plonker, needed to be qualified to do the job they'd been doing for years.

To a man they will tell you that on their course there where guys with similar backgrounds to themselves, but a significant minority of people who'd obviously never connected two pipes together in their lives and lacked the manual dexterity to use a pipe wrench, some who couldn't grasp the basic fundamentals of plumbing, but everyone of them passed and walked out clutching their certificate stating they could safely work on your gas supply, lets just hope they never work out which way to hold the wrench and stick issuing gas safety certificates they don't understand.

 

[LittleShip]

There are many DIY people that will be very capable of installing a gas supply on a boat and..... There will also be many who think they can do it and save a couple of pounds. The ones at risk are the ones who only think they can.

In a previous life, I have attend several deaths due to gas related problems, in most cases it was due to faulty installation and or the people that think they can do it.

Personally, I don't think people should work on gas without some form of training. That said there is nothing difficult in making a couple of joints safe and most competent people will be able to do this safely.

The original post was..... as I read it meant as good advice and not a tout for business. The forum should have people that give out good advice from an experienced point of view. Like all advice we have the choice to ignore it or heed it.

Being able to run some pipe or install a C/H system dosen't necessarily mean you are good at it or that it is correctly designed or installed.

Don't argue over the semantics, otherwise good advice will stop being given on the forum.

Tom.

 

[nigelmercier]

... when we had our gas checked by a professional he found chafe in the rubber pipe ...

I'm sure that his qualifications and years of experience were vital in discovering this. He would also have special detection equipment: Mk1 nose, Mk1 eyeball.

 

[RogerMayne]

"Compliant"? No seagoing yacht gas installation needs to comply with anything, unless the yacht is coded for commercial use, and even then it's not exactly complicated. If you don't know that simple fact, don't come on here with your silly scare stories touting for business.

For compliant read compliant with best practice. Why would you want your installation to be anything but?

I am not looking for work, I only work around Hinckley. There are no yachts round here, but lots of narrowboats.

Do you have any gas qualifications?

 

[Swanrad2]

Would one be enough? over 100 years? if it was your DIY and your family?

I hate this 'if it saves just one life, its worth it' argument. It is this argument upon which our freedoms are sacrificed and no it is not worth it, because the argument is a cunning blend of statistics and emotive argument. If it saves the life of one poor innocent baby....if that baby was yours - it is maybe a 5 million to one chance and that assumes there is one to be in 5 million.

I think I triggered this thread in part with a question about the make up of the hoses used on our boat. I think I am competent, but have found that if I ask a broader question I get some useful insights into the issue I am addressing. Rather than going into a gas supplier and buying bits that look the same, I ask a question and depending on the answers I get I decide what to do.

An example - I have been overhauling our engine. There are two bits based on advice received that I cannot or will not do (if they are faulty). Namely the governer and the teleflex control. The former because it has the capacity to kill the engine in seconds, the latter because they are hard. All the other stuff before I call in the engineer, I have done myself and learned along the way. I may yet decide not to replace the foot of rubber tube - but it surprised me that the fittings were crimped rather than jubileed on; I stopped and asked the question. Isn't this the very definition of competent????

 

[RogerMayne]

There are many DIY people that will be very capable of installing a gas supply on a boat and..... There will also be many who think they can do it and save a couple of pounds. The ones at risk are the ones who only think they can.

In a previous life, I have attend several deaths due to gas related problems, in most cases it was due to faulty installation and or the people that think they can do it.

Personally, I don't think people should work on gas without some form of training. That said there is nothing difficult in making a couple of joints safe and most competent people will be able to do this safely.

The original post was..... as I read it meant as good advice and not a tout for business. The forum should have people that give out good advice from an experienced point of view. Like all advice we have the choice to ignore it or heed it.

Being able to run some pipe or install a C/H system dosen't necessarily mean you are good at it or that it is correctly designed or installed.

Don't argue over the semantics, otherwise good advice will stop being given on the forum.

Tom.

I agree with what you say, the problem is sorting the bad advice from the good advice and with no or only forum gained knowledge, how are you going to tell the good from the bad?

I remember reading on here a thread where a chap was giving out advice on refilling gas cylinders from a gas cylinder. Only a lunatic would do this in my opinion, but he reckoned it was ok because he was "careful and knew what he was doing"

I used to work with an old carpenter and one of his favourite sayings was "you can't educate bacon"