DIY gas work = DIE gas work

[RogerMayne]

The only gas leak that I have had came from a soldered joint at home that was there when we moved in.

The only 'professional' gas fitter I have used was from British Gas who installed a gas fire at SWMBO's insistance. I had to take it out and do it again properly!

Did you check the catchment space, do a flue flow test, spillage test, tightness test and gas rate it?

 

[RogerMayne]

No you don't. You are qualified because you have been on a brief simplistic course for fitters. Even international experts on systems much more dangerous than gas systems don't know all the risks, for example the cavitation erosion at a bend in a pipe carrying highly active liquor at Sellafield that caught out all the experts.



And that attitude is why you are winding up people.

Are you qualified to fit gas?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Are you qualified to fit gas?

No, and I have not suggested that I am, and that is not relevant to your claim anyway. However, I am a professional engineer who has worked on safety critical systems far more risky than a gas installation in a boat and know that when someone comes along, who because they have been on a fitter's course, says they "know all the risks", then I give their opinion the merit it deserves. If you had an engineering knowledge of risk rather than a fitter's you would not make that claim.

 

[jerrytug]

Is he from Viz, sounds like it
Roger Mayne, Qualified and Trained

 

[Sandyman]

Are you qualified to fit gas?

I was but refused to spend a grand or so every five years to be taught how to suck eggs so I retired

 

[KristiferColumbus]

Are you qualified to fit gas?

I was qualified to fit domestic gas systems Roger & I think you are getting the response you are getting because there are far worse risks elsewhere in the boating world.It requires a sense of perspective!

 

[Birdseye]

one is too many, either way

In which case I suggest you go off to a desert island, and wrap yourself in cottonwool. You wont be able to eat anything since people die every year from food poisening. But then you will die of thrist first because you couldnt drink uncertified water could you?

You cannot have a risk and casualty free life. There is a trade off between practicality and safety - its a question of the balance of risk.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

You cannot have a risk and casualty free life. There is a trade off between practicality and safety - its a question of the balance of risk.

Old age seems very risky. No end of my relatives have died from it, and if you ask me, even one death was one too many. Why's the guvmint not doing anything about it? It's a scandal! I think everyone over the age of 80 should only be allowed to live if they have been on a course training them on how not to die.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't get your argument for not saving lives if you can, it makes no sense. How can you be more free if you are dead?

Gas installations poorly done by professionals kill many people each year. Does it therefore make sense to ban professionals from installing gas systems?

 

[JumbleDuck]

We had just bought the boat which is why we got a gas man in to check everything. It's not something I would do myself any more than I would DIY it, I'm not an expert in gas systems

Since chafing can happen at any time and can be easily spotted, might I respectfully suggest that it would be a good idea to give your hoses a Hard Stare on a regular basis rather than relying on infrequent inspections by professionals?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Very few salt-water boats have any gas appliance except a single gas cooker, with no issues about flueing, electrical connection or plumbing. Now, boats on fresh-water are a different kettle of fish, and often have gas heating systems as well as using gas for cooking. In the case of a complex installation such as that more typical of a fresh-water boat, I can see the wisdom of having a qualified AND EXPERIENCED gas fitter to at least check the installation.

Wot 'e said. Connecting up a gas cooker as the single appliance on a system? Meh. Anyone with a bit of sense (which includes reading up on good practice) can do that. I'd be far more leery of tackling a gas heater, or indeed anything that might be on while people were asleep. Two fishermen died of CO poisoning just a couple of weeks ago using a cooker to warm the boat overnight.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I'll try again......

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people.

What bit of legislation covers that? Or aren't you allowed to tell us?

 

[Sandyman]

I'll try again......



What bit of legislation covers that? Or aren't you allowed to tell us?

May be wrong but seem to recall there is something in the Gas Regs about it.

 

[Simondjuk]

I once witnessed a registered and qualified LPG installer using a manometer fitted with natural rubber hose to test a butane installation.

My own manometer has neoprene hose.

You suggest that my life depends on me using a fellow such as him to install and maintain my gas system, Roger?

 

[bluerm166]

Well,I think that it was quite reasonable for the OP to raise this thread,if under a less dramatic heading.Surely the whole point of an LPG installation is that it has to be failsafe ,not merely more or less OK, and boats present a particular problem in that they invariably have unventilated sumps in the form of bilges and often a variety of ignition sources.There are many other tasks that the amateur can undertake where basic mistakes will instantly be apparent and no harm ensues e.g.a fuse blows, a splice parts, and correction can follow,but unless you have the benefit of a leak tester or sniffer in constant use and a system that is robust over time then a rare but catastrophic risk remains.
Forum users put up with being reminded to wear life jackets,to clip on,etc etc.(I appreciate the greater liklihood of risk) but for some reason take particular umbrage at fair comment by a professional.There are often pretty tentative queries raised on the forum and the post seems to have touched a raw nerve.I think the OP has put up pretty well with the range of negative and sometimes daft replies and has remained constructive under the onslaught.

 

[NormanS]

When we bought our present secondhand boat, it came with a gas installation duly signed off by a CORGI (the regulating authority a the time) gas installer. There was a leak at a joint between the gas locker and the inside of the boat. He had also installed a bubble tester, inside, in a position where it was impossible to see it. He had not put the fluid into it. So much for the professional.

I may have partly instigated this thread by asking whether present best practice was to use armoured (braided) or non-armoured hose for the final link to the cooker. There are arguments both for, and against, but the suggestion from a forumite, to use plain non-armoured hose, protected with spiral cable-tidy, seems like the best bet. I will have no hesitation in carrying out the work myself.

 

[onesea]

If you knew anything about gas fitting then you would also know that we are not allowed to give advice to unqualified people as it gets twisted misquoted and over time will become out of date.
Standards and best practice change over time, usually as a result of a fatal accident, to reduce as far as possible dangerous situations that have been proven killers.
The only advice I can give you is get a CO alarm, a flammable gas alarm and read the current best practice to see how compliant your installation is. If it is not safe get someone who knows what they are doing to make it safe.

I'ld be interested to see where that particular rule is laid down. It sounds more like an attempt to promote a closed shop than a bit of genuine law.

Did he ever quote the law for all our benefits?

How do you get this gas fitting knowledge then? Join a society roll up one trouser leg? bare a nipple? Oh sorry that society much more famous. I have seen a boat put through the inland safety cert and brought up to standard to be honest they did not impress me much.

I know to bring my boat to that standard would require major surgery new gas locker for a start, that would be extremely difficulty/ costly fit. Unless I want to start cutting open balsa core decks. So as it is the spare gas bottle lives well secured and down below, not ideal but its what I live with. When it comes to survey the bottle will just come off the boat.

My last boat would be very difficult to comply and remain a sea worth vessel.

 

[[3889]]

I don't get your argument for not saving lives if you can, it makes no sense. How can you be more free if you are dead?

Assuming risk assessment training on gas fitting courses is similar to that on electrical installation courses, this statement does not bode well for your assimilation of learning outcomes.

 

[Swanrad2]

Saving a life cannot be the only criterion here. If we want no death then it is impossible - we would not go onto boats, drive cars and many activities we humans enjoy would be taboo !!

It is impossible to avoid some accidents and to curtail many of them would make our lives miserable and many choose the style of life rather than pure longevity.

I cherish the choice !!

My point was simple - if you want to remove all risk ban gas, dinghies, boats, masts, engines etc, etc.... Doing these things might save one life. It's not worth it. A risk free life is no life - it's the argument I object to, I'm not saying plumb it in yourself regardless, that must be an informed decision, a risk/reward calculation.

 

[Searush]

Wot 'e said. Connecting up a gas cooker as the single appliance on a system? Meh. Anyone with a bit of sense (which includes reading up on good practice) can do that. I'd be far more leery of tackling a gas heater, or indeed anything that might be on while people were asleep. Two fishermen died of CO poisoning just a couple of weeks ago using a cooker to warm the boat overnight.

Very sad, but absolutely nothing to do with the safety of the gas installation, is it?

They failed to understand the need for ventilation with heaters that burn anything. I wouldn't use a flame based heater in any enclosed space without good ventilation & NEVER if planning to sleep. There was a family recently killed in a tent 'cos they took remains of the disposable Barbie inside for warmth. Plenty of info about this risk in camp sites, chandlers, HM Offices & marinas.