DIY gas work = DIE gas work

[Searush]

There are many DIY people that will be very capable of installing a gas supply on a boat and..... There will also be many who think they can do it and save a couple of pounds. The ones at risk are the ones who only think they can.

In a previous life, I have attend several deaths due to gas related problems, in most cases it was due to faulty installation and or the people that think they can do it.

Personally, I don't think people should work on gas without some form of training. That said there is nothing difficult in making a couple of joints safe and most competent people will be able to do this safely.

The original post was..... as I read it meant as good advice and not a tout for business. The forum should have people that give out good advice from an experienced point of view. Like all advice we have the choice to ignore it or heed it.

Being able to run some pipe or install a C/H system dosen't necessarily mean you are good at it or that it is correctly designed or installed.

Don't argue over the semantics, otherwise good advice will stop being given on the forum.

Tom.

Good commonsense, Tom, but I think the sanctimonious tone of the posts seems to have wound people up.

I don't think many of us like being told we can't (or shouldn't) do something that we have actually done successfully several times. Most of the really good people that post advice & guidance on here (& there are many of them) do so with humility & a recommendation to seek professional help if unsure.

 

[nigelmercier]

Good commonsense, Tom, but I think the sanctimonious tone of the posts seems to have wound people up.

I don't think many of us like being told we can't (or shouldn't) do something that we have actually done successfully several times. Most of the really good people that post advice & guidance on here (& there are many of them) do so with humility & a recommendation to seek professional help if unsure.

Well said on all counts.

 

[RogerMayne]

I hate this 'if it saves just one life, its worth it' argument. It is this argument upon which our freedoms are sacrificed and no it is not worth it, because the argument is a cunning blend of statistics and emotive argument. If it saves the life of one poor innocent baby....if that baby was yours - it is maybe a 5 million to one chance and that assumes there is one to be in 5 million.

I think I triggered this thread in part with a question about the make up of the hoses used on our boat. I think I am competent, but have found that if I ask a broader question I get some useful insights into the issue I am addressing. Rather than going into a gas supplier and buying bits that look the same, I ask a question and depending on the answers I get I decide what to do.

An example - I have been overhauling our engine. There are two bits based on advice received that I cannot or will not do (if they are faulty). Namely the governer and the teleflex control. The former because it has the capacity to kill the engine in seconds, the latter because they are hard. All the other stuff before I call in the engineer, I have done myself and learned along the way. I may yet decide not to replace the foot of rubber tube - but it surprised me that the fittings were crimped rather than jubileed on; I stopped and asked the question. Isn't this the very definition of competent????

I don't get your argument for not saving lives if you can, it makes no sense. How can you be more free if you are dead?

 

[pvb]

It sounds more like an attempt to promote a closed shop than a bit of genuine law.

I think you're right. Once again, we have a scaremongering thread about LPG on boats. In reality, the gas system on boats is simple and extraordinarily safe. As pointed out already, the AC installations on boats often have far greater potential for fatal accidents.
.

 

[RogerMayne]

In reality, the gas system on boats is simple and extraordinarily safe.
.

Yes, If it is correctly installed and maintained

 

[jerrytug]

I don't get your argument for not saving lives if you can, it makes no sense. How can you be more free if you are dead?

Massive troll

 

[Searush]

Yes, If it is correctly installed and maintained

If it is correctly installed, it won't need much (if any) maintenance beyond a regular safety check "just in case". I'm sorry but you are coming over as "bigging up the risks" when many are already overconcerned. There are several posters on here that will not have LPG aboard their boats out of fear of an explosion. I don't like this feeding of fears attitude.

Clearly one has to be sensible & competent, but beyond that it is NOT rocket science. Incidentally, I think there are far more fires & problems due to petrol & solvents on boats than due to LPG.

EDIT;
Actually thinking about it, I'll bet that there are far more explosions & fires on inland waterways than on seagoing craft, despite the fact that Inland Waterways insist on safety certificates & open water authorities do not.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Good commonsense, Tom, but I think the sanctimonious tone of the posts seems to have wound people up.

I don't think many of us like being told we can't (or shouldn't) do something that we have actually done successfully several times. Most of the really good people that post advice & guidance on here (& there are many of them) do so with humility & a recommendation to seek professional help if unsure.

Also, if you are a regular on here, you pretty soon get a good idea of who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. In fact, many people (myself included) will put a disclaimer if they are making a suggestion beyond their competence.

As a matter of fact, I happen to be uneasy about doing plumbing and gas work myself; I know I haven't got the necessary experience and knowledge of the best way of making the joints. But I can see that it isn't rocket science! We are not talking about a system as complex as a domestic hot-water boiler, with its requirements for safe electrical installation, safe flueing and safe plumbing as well as safe gas installation. I am sure I could readily learn the required skills; I have learnt far more complex skills!

Very few salt-water boats have any gas appliance except a single gas cooker, with no issues about flueing, electrical connection or plumbing. Now, boats on fresh-water are a different kettle of fish, and often have gas heating systems as well as using gas for cooking. In the case of a complex installation such as that more typical of a fresh-water boat, I can see the wisdom of having a qualified AND EXPERIENCED gas fitter to at least check the installation. But on the average marine installation, once precautions such as a CO monitor are in place, failure is more likely to result from faulty operation (e.g. failure to tighten the seal on a replacement gas bottle) than from faulty installation. The one time I've had a problem with a gas cooker was because the cooker itself developed a fault, not because of any problem with installation.

 

[KristiferColumbus]

I can't see it does any harm to ask questions in order to find out knowledge.I was a qualified gas engineer & I can tell you some of the operatives I saw qualified I would'nt like anywhere near my boat.

 

[KellysEye]

>armoured pipe cooker connection is not a requirement & some believe unsafe as the actual gas pipe cannot be examined as your chafed one was

I can't believe anyone would believe it unsafe, it's armoured so can't chafe, but as the gas man found an unarmoured rubber pipe is potentially unsafe and ours was. I agree it's not a requirement but I would recommend it, because its not easy to see what is going on with a pipe behind the cooker and I doubt many check.

>Had you checked the pipe and failed to spot the chafing?

We had just bought the boat which is why we got a gas man in to check everything. It's not something I would do myself any more than I would DIY it, I'm not an expert in gas systems

 

[Mel]

I don't get your argument for not saving lives if you can, it makes no sense. How can you be more free if you are dead?

Saving a life cannot be the only criterion here. If we want no death then it is impossible - we would not go onto boats, drive cars and many activities we humans enjoy would be taboo !!

It is impossible to avoid some accidents and to curtail many of them would make our lives miserable and many choose the style of life rather than pure longevity.

I cherish the choice !!

 

[RogerMayne]

If it is correctly installed, it won't need much (if any) maintenance beyond a regular safety check "just in case". I'm sorry but you are coming over as "bigging up the risks" when many are already overconcerned. There are several posters on here that will not have LPG aboard their boats out of fear of an explosion. I don't like this feeding of fears attitude.

Clearly one has to be sensible & competent, but beyond that it is NOT rocket science. Incidentally, I think there are far more fires & problems due to petrol & solvents on boats than due to LPG.

EDIT;
Actually thinking about it, I'll bet that there are far more explosions & fires on inland waterways than on seagoing craft, despite the fact that Inland Waterways insist on safety certificates & open water authorities do not.

If I have made people think long and hard about the safety of LPG on boats then that is a good thing. I am qualified and know all of the risks, they are many and do merit serious consideration.

I don't know why people keep referring to gas fitting as being rocket science, it clearly isn't. There is, however, more to it than just chucking a few pipes in the boat and because it works and hasn't been a problem assuming that it will be fine and then giving others advice based on your own limited knowledge (not aimed at you, more of a generalisation about the LPG advice on these forums). Then when someone comes along who actually knows the subject, they are seen as being part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
The reason it is so difficult to give advice is because the whole installation needs to be looked at, pipe sizing, ventilation, pipe routing, off take rates, all sorts of things that nobody on here will have any idea about unless they have done the LPG training. Just because someone has fitted a gas cooker on their own boat they instantly become an expert on LPG, and then give advice (often incorrect) to others and so it goes on.

 

[Seajet]

Roger,

we DIY boat owners also know the risks and behave sensibly.

Now please be a good chap and F... off

 

[Sandyman]

I know several guys that have done Corgi /Gas Safe course and are qualified to work on gas. They are mostly guys who have worked in building/plumbing all their working lives then one day, because of some healthy and safety plonker, needed to be qualified to do the job they'd been doing for years.

To a man they will tell you that on their course there where guys with similar backgrounds to themselves, but a significant minority of people who'd obviously never connected two pipes together in their lives and lacked the manual dexterity to use a pipe wrench, some who couldn't grasp the basic fundamentals of plumbing, but everyone of them passed and walked out clutching their certificate stating they could safely work on your gas supply, lets just hope they never work out which way to hold the wrench and stick issuing gas safety certificates they don't understand.

Your words are so true. Having left the Navy I worked for some 15 odd years doing gas work. Then they decided I would need a chitty from some mob called CORGI ( has to be written in capitols due to copyright ) What a joke. The money men jumped on the bandwagon and all in the name of public safety. On the course I had to attend at my own cost the so called instructor was
an idiot of the first degree. I lost count of the number of times I had to correct his mistakes. Some of the other so called students didn't know the difference between a gas valve & a thermocouple. I kid you not. CORGI was a joke. Supplying for a fee, a chit of paper which allowed just about any muppet to go out & rip joe public off.
I know its changed now but have to wonder if the standards are any higher.

Someone mentioned using compression fittings. They are not recommended for use on gas pipe runs.

 

[sailorman]

Your words are so true. Having left the Navy I worked for some 15 odd years doing gas work. Then they decided I would need a chitty from some mob called CORGI ( has to be written in capitols due to copyright ) What a joke. The money men jumped on the bandwagon and all in the name of public safety. On the course I had to attend at my own cost the so called instructor was
an idiot of the first degree. I lost count of the number of times I had to correct his mistakes. Some of the other so called students didn't know the difference between a gas valve & a thermocouple. I kid you not. CORGI was a joke. Supplying for a fee, a chit of paper which allowed just about any muppet to go out & rip joe public off.
I know its changed now but have to wonder if the standards are any higher.

Someone mentioned using compression fittings. They are not recommended for use on gas pipe runs.

how does that work in a boat then

 

[Sandyman]

how does that work in a boat then

Use Yorkshire or end feed fittings.

 

[Jaguar 25]

The only gas leak that I have had came from a soldered joint at home that was there when we moved in.

The only 'professional' gas fitter I have used was from British Gas who installed a gas fire at SWMBO's insistance. I had to take it out and do it again properly!

 

[RogerMayne]

Your words are so true. Having left the Navy I worked for some 15 odd years doing gas work. Then they decided I would need a chitty from some mob called CORGI ( has to be written in capitols due to copyright ) What a joke. The money men jumped on the bandwagon and all in the name of public safety. On the course I had to attend at my own cost the so called instructor was
an idiot of the first degree. I lost count of the number of times I had to correct his mistakes. Some of the other so called students didn't know the difference between a gas valve & a thermocouple. I kid you not. CORGI was a joke. Supplying for a fee, a chit of paper which allowed just about any muppet to go out & rip joe public off.
I know its changed now but have to wonder if the standards are any higher.

Someone mentioned using compression fittings. They are not recommended for use on gas pipe runs.

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private _boats_ed3_public_final.pdf page 49 7.8.3

 

[AngusMcDoon]

...and know all of the risks.

No you don't. You are qualified because you have been on a brief simplistic course for fitters. Even international experts on systems much more dangerous than gas systems don't know all the risks, for example the cavitation erosion at a bend in a pipe carrying highly active liquor at Sellafield that caught out all the experts.

...that nobody on here will have any idea about unless they have done the LPG training.

And that attitude is why you are winding up people.

 

[Sandyman]

The only gas leak that I have had came from a soldered joint at home that was there when we moved in.

The only 'professional' gas fitter I have used was from British Gas who installed a gas fire at SWMBO's insistance. I had to take it out and do it again properly!

BG so what do you expect I think you will find that most of the engineers they use are contract workers now.
Stand to be corrected.