DIY gas work = DIE gas work

[cimo]

If you are competent fine, referring to manufacturers is the thing to do. if you have no idea, and are asking the most basic questions, and getting the wrong answers from a forum then NO

I'd be your typical jupliee clip type DIYer when it comes to my two ring, grill & oven installation.
I had a leaking valve on one of the ring controls couple of years back - the smell of leaking gas was pretty obvious - I fixed it temporarily with a smear of seacock grease around the valve cone. When I say temporarily, that was a couple of years ago, and I haven't had the "need" to look at it again since.

There’s those who would consider me a competent person, but I'd consider myself always open to expert advice.

So, in earnest, any advice you could give here Roger would be much appreciated.

General installation do's/don't, from bottle to appliance. Are there different considerations for butane over propane for example?

 

[Hadenough]

I had a leaking valve on one of the ring controls couple of years back - the smell of leaking gas was pretty obvious - I fixed it temporarily with a smear of seacock grease around the valve cone. When I say temporarily, that was a couple of years ago, and I haven't had the "need" to look at it again since.

There’s those who would consider me a competent person

Not me!

 

[RogerMayne]

I'd be your typical jupliee clip type DIYer when it comes to my two ring, grill & oven installation.
I had a leaking valve on one of the ring controls couple of years back - the smell of leaking gas was pretty obvious - I fixed it temporarily with a smear of seacock grease around the valve cone. When I say temporarily, that was a couple of years ago, and I haven't had the "need" to look at it again since.

There’s those who would consider me a competent person, but I'd consider myself always open to expert advice.

So, in earnest, any advice you could give here Roger would be much appreciated.

General installation do's/don't, from bottle to appliance. Are there different considerations for butane over propane for example?

pretty much everything you need to know is here http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private _boats_ed3_public_final.pdf

 

[cimo]

Not me!

except Hadenough of course...

 

[JumbleDuck]

which are how many, compared to a bodged DIY installation?

I really have no idea, but you suggested that one DIY-caused death a century would be unacceptable, so the many per year by professionals doesn't look too good, does it?

Of course what we really need to know is the total number of CO / leak / explosion accidents each year with the status of the person responsible. Does anyone collect that information?

 

[sailorman]

a man wants to learn how to parachute, so he goes for various lessons and then it is time for his first real jump. He leaves the plane correctly and is in freefall, he pulls for his parachute, it doesn't work, he tries the reserve chute, same again, then he sees a man flying up from earth towards him, as he is hurtling down he shouts "do you know anything about parachutes?" the chap flying up replies "no, do you know anything about fitting gas on boats?"

but who packed that parrot chute the gov.
No doubt a professional

 

[RogerMayne]

I really have no idea, but you suggested that one DIY-caused death a century would be unacceptable, so the many per year by professionals doesn't look too good, does it?

Of course what we really need to know is the total number of CO / leak / explosion accidents each year with the status of the person responsible. Does anyone collect that information?

one is too many, either way

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Would one be enough? over 100 years? if it was your DIY and your family?

I would hazard a guess that more people die from boating accidents whilst underway than from faulty DIY installations, Perhaps we should all hire professional skippers to sail our boats for us?

 

[Happydaze]

I think the title of this tread just about sums up the industry, lies just to screw money out of the public. Having a piece of paper to say you are gas safe approved does not make you a better fitter than any one else, it means you paid your money and took your accessment and now can earn your crust. Most sailor with many years experiance of going to sea learn everything about their boat so maintainance and repairs are part of every day life. So if its engine, rig, electrics or gas work it is carried out as if your life depended on it, because it does. Far too many stories of work carried out by "experts" 2 weeks astern of you, that has just fallen apart are heard from those who wont or cant. If you want a job done properly, do it yourself my dad used to say.
Of course, if you cant i've heard golf or bowling can be fun.............

 

[jerrytug]

I think the title of this tread just about sums up the industry, lies just to screw money out of the public. Having a piece of paper to say you are gas safe approved does not make you a better fitter than any one else, it means you paid your money and took your accessment and now can earn your crust. Most sailor with many years experiance of going to sea learn everything about their boat so maintainance and repairs are part of every day life. So if its engine, rig, electrics or gas work it is carried out as if your life depended on it, because it does. Far too many stories of work carried out by "experts" 2 weeks astern of you, that has just fallen apart are heard from those who wont or cant. If you want a job done properly, do it yourself my dad used to say.
Of course, if you cant i've heard golf or bowling can be fun.............

Precisely, well said sir.

 

[nigelmercier]

I installed the gas supply in my house. It isn't rocket science. If it were, all the gas fitters would be rocket scientists.

 

[Malcb]

AFAIK the only requirement for gas work is that it should be done by a 'competent person'.

So provided that the person takes all the necessary precautions and checks for gas leaks both before and afterwards then they can probably be shown to be competent.

When I worked for British Gas prior to 1996 we trialled a 'Service Appreciation Course' for office staff. The main aim was so that they would be able to explain to customers how to operate their automatic cookers and CH boilers, thus saving the visit of a gas engineer.

They were also shown how to test for leaks and install gas fires, which they did competently. However they were told not to do them afterwards. It's not rocket science.

 

[saltylegs]

DIY gas work in your own home is not illegal. Although it's no bad thing for the general public to believe that it is, because it makes some of the numpties think twice.

Pete

Yes and no.
Its not illegal to carryout DIY gas work provided you are competent to do so.

Guidance 2(1)
For the purposes of these Regulations, ‘work’ includes do-it-yourself activities,
work undertaken as a favour for friends and relatives, and work for which there is
no expectation of reward or gain, eg voluntary activity for charities. This means that
anyone carrying out such work must have the necessary competence, as required
by regulation 3(1). However, membership of an HSE approved class of persons
(under regulation 3(3)) is required only by businesses carrying out gas fitting work.

Regulation 3(1)–(2
(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas
storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer,
every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of
such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such
work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that
paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.
80 Gas work should only be undertaken:
(a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry-recognised
training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that
leads to assessment of competence in safe gas work should be
recognised by the industry’s standards setting body; or
(b) in the case of a currently or previously registered person, where they
have proved competence through a certification scheme; or
(c) for those working at premises that fall outside the scope of the
Regulations (see regulation 2(4) and associated guidance), by a person
who has successfully completed an appropriate full training course
followed by assessment of competence.
81 Training should be of a standard to enable a gas engineer to achieve
competence in the safe installation, purging, commissioning, testing,
servicing, maintenance, repair, disconnection, modification and dismantling of
the gas systems, fittings and appliances with which they are working. This
should include an adequate knowledge of:
(a) relevant associated services such as water and electricity; and
(b) the potential for exposure to asbestos; and
(c) the dangers these may give rise to; and
(d) the precautions to take.
PART B Gas fittings – general provisions
R

So that's what the law says, until you check out Regulation 2(3)–(8

(5) Nothing in these Regulations shall apply in relation to the supply of gas
to, or anything done in respect of a gas fitting on –
(a) a self-propelled vehicle except when such vehicle is –
(i) hired out in the course of a business; or
(ii) made available to members of the public in the course of a
business carried on from that vehicle;
(b) a sea-going ship;
(c) a vessel not requiring a national or international load line certificate
except when such a vessel is –
(i) hired out in the course of a business;
(ii) made available to members of the public in the course of a
business carried out from that vessel; or
(iii) used primarily for domestic or residential purposes;
(d) a hovercraft; or
(e) a caravan used for touring otherwise than when hired out in the course
of a business.

So you can legally do DIY/not for reward, gas work when you are not registered as long as you have been previously deemed competent.
But the regulations exclude sea going vessels.

Discuss.

Almost every day I see gas work done by registered and non registered installers and sometimes (at the bottom end of skill) its hard to tell the difference however as I am in the business I would have to say that you should always use a registered gas installer for any gas work.

Some have commented that anyone can just get a cert, and yes you can but a registered engineer has to get certified in every area that they wish to work for example to work on boats the average engineer would need, core natural gas(or you can do LPG only core but that excludes you from natural gas) with an LPG add on then the appliances that they may encounter on a boat, cooker, water heater and air heater. For the normal gas engineer that means about 2 weeks in training and assessment (with loss of earnings) plus the course and certification fees of about £1500 to be repeated every 5 years plus an annual registration fee.
The above figures are for someone working on boats only.

Apologies for the length just thought it might help with the OP's point of view.

 

[cimo]

pretty much everything you need to know is here http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private _boats_ed3_public_final.pdf

interestingly enough, the troubleshooting section, page 79, lists one of the likely causes of a "smell of gas" as being a "gas leak".

appreciate the link though, i have printed it off and will add to the "ships" library.

 

[ffiill]

A compression fitting is a compression fitting;an end feed is an end feed;a Yorkshire fitting is a Yorkshire fitting.
Either you make the joint properly and it is gas tight or you botch it and it leaks.
I was trained by my dad for whom a badly made fitting could mean a dead Spitfire pilot or a dead Lancaster crew.
I also was trained in good soldering techniques in metalwork lessons at school.
You do not need to have gone through a training course to be a good plumber and quite frankly I have seen some horrendous plumbing carried out by so called professionals.

 

[Daydream believer]

;a Yorkshire fitting is a Yorkshire fitting.
.

Brings back memories
Don't you mean "was"
Still have a set of reamers but had nothing to use them on for years

 

[JumbleDuck]

A compression fitting is a compression fitting;an end feed is an end feed;a Yorkshire fitting is a Yorkshire fitting.
Either you make the joint properly and it is gas tight or you botch it and it leaks.

I think that arranging the supply of gas is the easy part. As you say, it's just plumbing and plumbing ain't rocket science. The hard bit is the venting / draughting / flue stuff, where a small mistake can produce a small amount of CO ... and that's all it takes.

 

[sailinglegend420]

...So, in earnest, any advice you could give here Roger would be much appreciated.

General installation do's/don't, from bottle to appliance. Are there different considerations for butane over propane for example?

I think this question - and the 79 page link given by the OP - sums up the ignorance of many people on these forums.

Do you really think you can learn, in one or two postings, ALL that is needed to INSTALL a new gas system safely - not just change an old gas pipe in a sealed locker out in the cockpit.

The OP's post was about GAS - I would suggest that AC work is even more dangerous and there are certainly many reported incidents of deaths from botched work, by professionals and by DIYers. Nigel Calder refers to these problems and the acknowledgement that many deaths that were thought to be caused by drowning were actually caused by badly installed AC systems on boats or pontoons.

There are many reports on Google but here is just one report that everyone should read:

http://www.fomasailing.com/mm/MM_July_2004_rev_01.pdf

 

[Seajet]

I am glad you have found enough work since you posted on the flexible pipe thread, where you wrote that all LPG work on boats must be done by a person of exactly *your* qualifications, then wrote your contact details and gas safe number for people to contact you for work, the work which you don't need now. Well done

+1...

 

[[3889]]

one is too many, either way

What a bizarre approach to risk assessment. Do you think all traffic should be banned from the roads immediately?