DIY gas work = DIE gas work

[Danbury]

Also 3 boilers have been 'condemned' by 'heating engineers in my properties over the last year '' New boiler required Guv.'' one needed an exchange ECU £40, another a micro switch £5 and the third a new pressure vessel £40, did the work myself ( but no gas element to the jobs)

Technically speaking... even though there was no gas element, by law you still need to pay a large amount of money to Gas Safe... IIRC the Gas Safe fees relate to any aspect of an appliance connected to a gas supply, not just the gas side of things... This is of course regardless of your competence, training, knowledge etc... you could even be the bloke who designed and made it in the first place !! Crazy laws we have...

 

[Lakesailor]

Technically speaking... even though there was no gas element, by law you still need to pay a large amount of money to Gas Safe... IIRC the Gas Safe fees relate to any aspect of an appliance connected to a gas supply, not just the gas side of things... This is of course regardless of your competence, training, knowledge etc... you could even be the bloke who designed and made it in the first place !! Crazy laws we have...

Are you sure?

From the thread in the Lounge.

Its only legal on your own property if you can prove competence. How do you propose to do that?

Quote: Gas Safety Installation and Use Regulations 1998 Part B Regulation 3 "Qualifications and supervision".

"1) No person shall carry out any work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so."

That covers the home as well as everywhere else. If you want the definition of 'work' thats there too. In fact its all there.


Tim

A response from HSE on competence.

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the definition of the term 'competent'.

There is no precise legal definition of the term 'competent' under health and safety legislation in general. However, in relation to its meaning under the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 (the Management Regulations), the following information may be useful.

Regulation 7 of the Management Regulations, which is concerned with health and safety assistance, requires every employer to "appoint one or more competent persons" to assist them in complying with their health and safety responsibilities. While the regulation don't specify any particular qualifications that have to be gained in order to be considered a competent person, it does say that "A person shall be regarded as competent ... where he has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist in undertaking the measures".

The accompanying guidance goes onto explain:

"Competence in the sense it is used in these Regulations does not necessarily depend on the possession of particular skills or qualifications. Simple situations may require only the following:

(a) an understanding of relevant current best practice;

(b) an awareness of the limitations of one's own experience and knowledge; and

(c) the willingness and ability to supplement existing experience and knowledge, when necessary by obtaining external help and advice.



Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so, WHETHER OR NOT they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons. Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work. Employers of gas fitting operatives are also required under regulation 3(2) to ensure that their employees have the required competence for the work undertaken; in addition to ensuring they are properly experienced and trained (see paragraph 47), this involves ongoing monitoring of performance standards, as necessary.

Reference: L56, Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances, ISBN 9780717616355,

 

[nigelmercier]

Plenty of professionally qualified engineers without LPG training are very competent at calculating the pressure loss through pipes for gases including domestic ...

I did this myself when I installed the gas in my house, and I'm not even an engineer. I replaced pipe work presumably put in by a "professional" as the house belonged to an old lady. It worked properly after that.

 

[Danbury]

Correction...

I've done some research this time... I found this from Gas Safe... http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/pdf/Who%20can%20legally%20work%20on%20a%20gas%20appliance.pdf

This initially says that you can't work on any gas fitting... then goes on to say you can touch non-gas parts as long as you don't go into the inner chamber. Althought the requirement to pay fees to GSR still stands it would appear. The competence thing has to be passed before you can pay your fees...

I was half right ?

 

[LittleShip]

I just love the word professional .......

Professional footballer, lawyer, solicitor, fisherman, groundsman ect ect. It means somebody is getting paid to provide a certain task. After all a hooker is a professional person.

I always thought that tradesmen where always called that TRADESMEN. Which meant they were trained in a specific practice...... but thinking about it, we no longer have tradesmen as in time served. Mine was 7 years in total and I was alway proud to call myself that, a tradesman, time served and indentured.

Tom.

 

[sailorman]

I just love the word professional .......

Professional footballer, lawyer, solicitor, fisherman, groundsman ect ect. It means somebody is getting paid to provide a certain task. After all a hooker is a professional person.

I always thought that tradesmen where always called that TRADESMEN. Which meant they were trained in a specific practice...... but thinking about it, we no longer have tradesmen as in time served. Mine was 7 years in total and I was alway proud to call myself that, a tradesman, time served and indentured.

Tom.

thats 2 of us then

 

[pagoda]

I replaced about 1m of rubber gas hose on my boat earlier this week, I undid 2 jubilee clips, pulled off the old hose from both ends, slipped on the new hose and did up both jubilee clips.

Am I going to die because of this?

Ditto, replaced my flexible hoses after 5 years , as suggested..?! No Drama , no fuss and VERY SIMPLE mechanical 1 for 1 swap. I appreciate the flammability issues, but getting a good seal up to running 27 mBar ought not to be difficult with brand new hose of appropriate quality? 80% of my installation is hard piped , with a short flexible bit near the cooker and near the bottle. ??
Take care , do things up tight and do a bubble test?? What else do you honestly need (unless you are a consummate worrier?)

 

[DavidGrieves]

When I bought my boat the gas system was in a terrible state. Gas cylinders not secured, gas pipe dropped down into the bilges, was not fastened down, pipe went through bulkheads with no protection and no way of testing for leaks.

I'm no gas engineer but I made a point of reading the relevant regs, bought the right kit and replaced my own gas system. Pipe now runs a lot higher, is clipped down, avoids damage from knocks etc, is fitted with bulkhead fittings, has a regulator that allows me to pressurise the system with a foot/bike pump to allow for leak testing and is fitted with a test point so I can check system with a U tube and I check it annually. Original system was fitted by the builder who was presumably a professional...

The price of a U tube (manometer) and test point is much less than paying for a professional who may not turn up when they say they will, and you will gain the skills to check your own system whenever its required.

 

[nigelmercier]

... pressurise the system with a foot/bike pump to allow for leak testing and is fitted with a test point so I can check system with a U tube ...

Must be a very big manometer, or is it mercury?

 

[cliff]

Here is a good example of bad advice. I don't care how good your soldering is, you can't use soldered joints on a boat!

Why? - the gas feed in my house has many soldered connections so why can I not have some on my boat?

 

[Talulah]

Why? - the gas feed in my house has many soldered connections so why can I not have some on my boat?

Didn't they use to be braised? The regs were then relaxed. My knowledge is limited in these matters.

 

[cliff]

Didn't they use to be brazed? The regs were then relaxed. My knowledge is limited in these matters.

There, fixed that for you

 

[VicS]

Must be a very big manometer, or is it mercury?

No it would be a watergauge but the pump is used to pressurise the system with air to a specified pressure, which is above the normal working pressure. 70mb IIRC

It is the first of two tests, this one is done on the pipework and appliances before the regulator and cylinder are connected.

The second test is done on the whole system, after connecting the regulator and cylinder, using gas as the testing medium. It is however done at specified pressures which are different for butane and propane and which are slightly lower than the operating pressures.

My info is based on an old CORGI hand book and details may well have been revised by now at least extended to cater for dual fuel systems.

Any one who is working on their gas system must know and understand these tests and have the necessary equipment to carry them out. If not they cannot claim to be "competent".

 

[zzyyxx]

Why? - the gas feed in my house has many soldered connections so why can I not have some on my boat?

The BSS says no, but I don't know why.

 

[sailorman]

The BSS says no, but I don't know why.

i would suggest dry joints & vibration but then i have no paper quals

 

[VicMallows]

The BSS says no, but I don't know why.

Because you might set fire to your boat while soldering them?

 

[rogerthebodger]

I think it may be due to the fact that if there is a fire on board the solder could melt and release gas into the fire that would possible cause an explosion.

All my gas pipes on my boat are in fact sched 40 steel pipes with welded joints then pressure tested to 50 60 psi. Inside my gas locker and at the appliances, stove, water heater and heater are flexible hoses to allow for any movement with isolation valves for each appliance.

 

[sailorman]

I think it may be due to the fact that if there is a fire on board the solder could melt and release gas into the fire that would possible cause an explosion.

All my gas pipes on my boat are in fact sched 40 steel pipes with welded joints then pressure tested to 50 60 psi. Inside my gas locker and at the appliances, stove, water heater and heater are flexible hoses to allow for any movement with isolation valves for each appliance.

If the gas pipe was heated by fire it would explode

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think it may be due to the fact that if there is a fire on board the solder could melt and release gas into the fire that would possible cause an explosion.

Allowing rubber hoses seems like a bit of a risky loophole, then.

 

[zzyyxx]

Should have included a link:- http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/194782/2013ecp_private _boats_ed3_public_final.pdf

7.8.3

All LPG pipe joints must be compression fittings on copper pipework or
compression or screwed fittings on copper alloy or stainless steel pipework

Because you might set fire to your boat while soldering them?

You could pinch your fingers quite badly while doing compression joints.

Found this:- http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/boat-examination/non-private-boats/part-7-lpg-installations/joints/

Inefficient joints will cause LPG to leak. To minimise the risk of this happening joints must be made with compression fittings. Soldered joints must not be used because of their low resistance to heat, such as that experienced in an initial fire.