Dip the rope

[Deleted member 36384]

I have given up trying to explain why and how it works. You, I and some others here know why and how because we have used it and seen it being used. If others, who evidently do not understand the principles of the method, are happy to live in a fantasy world where all berthing lines are always soft and are never under tension, then good luck to them... and to whoever has berthed before them and was first to use 'their' bollard.

That is because you cant explain it to be different from just dropping your line over. Your functionality caused by dipping, even leaving the back of the loop on top of the first line, offers no additional advantage. It is you that is living in a fantasy world. Tension is irrelevant, it is a different problem that requires a different solution. I wonder just how much sailing you have done in different ports, in different boats, in different conditions. You demonstrate a level of ignorance commensurate with someone with little practical experience.

I used to think the same as you but I was wrong, I have learned that I was wrong and practical experience has demonstrated that my logic is both valid and practical in the real world. Dip away Puff, it is of no consequence to me, but you are wasting your time feeding loops up through other loops before dropping over the bollard or cleat.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

all loops adopt the same geometry on the bollard, dipped or not, despite what Puff The Magic Dragon thinks.

But that's just it... they don't!

However, as the saying goes in my country "Whoever tries to wash a mule's head is wasting his soap and water"...

 

[GHA]

It is carried out by dockers because the first ship in and on the bollard is usually the first one out after cargo operations have been concluded, so it is convenient for large hawsers to be dipped so that they end up below the ships that are likely to leave first. That is the only logical reason. It is certainly not because it allows any line to be slipped in any special way, as all loops adopt the same geometry on the bollard, dipped or not, despite what Puff The Magic Dragon thinks.

So just how do you do it then?
A sizable boat with lots of windage comes in after you and puts an eye in a line above yours on a bollard. A fierce breeze comes up as you want to leave so their line is under loads of tension - how do you get your loop off without untying the eye?

https://awwapp.com/b/uentv97sd/

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Here is an example of how people do it. Evidently - according to some 'experts' here - they have no sea-going experience and they have no clue as to what they are doing. Perhaps they should simply pile the eyes one on top the other and then just wiggle the bottom eyes up between the bollard and the other eyes when they need to depart. Should be easy, no? Proper piece of cake...

 

[AuntyRinum]

.......excitement as mobo chicks totter across the plastic teak decks of raft partners at two in the morning.

I had that Princess Michael of Kent crossing my foredeck at 9 in the morning once, when rafted up at Cowes.

 

[prv]

You, I and some others here know why and how...

For the record, I don't want to get lumped into some sort of rope-dipping hardliners group

My position:

• The OP's demand that an unknown helper "dip the rope" while he was arriving was silly and probably rather rude.
• The phrase "dip the rope" is not a standard one.
• The word "dip" is associated with the technique, so I would expect many knowledgeable sailors to understand the request anyway.
• I'm a little surprised how many undoubtedly experienced people here are unfamiliar with the technique (leaving aside the question of terminology). But I don't think that makes them any less competent - nobody knows everything, we all know different subsets.
• In the yachting world, it's almost always just a nice little detail, not a vital necessity, because our mooring loads are generally very low. Which explains the above.
• Nevertheless, when there is a heavy load on the upper line, BoB is incorrect to say that you can always wiggle a spliced eye out from underneath it after simply dropping the loops over the bollard in order. T'ain't so, and if he insists otherwise then I'd like to see a video of him doing it.
• Thus dipping the lines correctly is a core skill for commercial users with bigger loads. And maybe there's an argument to doing the same when sharing their environment, to reassure them that you know what you're doing.
• Finally, to sidestep the whole issue, there's a lot to be said for using a knot that can be safely undone whatever everyone else has done on the cleat!

Pete

 

[prv]

It is carried out by dockers because the first ship in and on the bollard is usually the first one out after cargo operations have been concluded

We were usually the only ship using any given bollard, the lines on it would have been our own multiple bow or stern lines. I don't think the linesmen would know anything about what order we might take them off again when singling up.

Pete

 

[Poignard]

• Finally, to sidestep the whole issue, there's a lot to be said for using a knot that can be safely undone whatever everyone else has done on the cleat!

Yes. A round turn and two half hitches on one of the cleat legs is what I use if I'm stayaing for any length of time. When preparing to leave I change to slip ropes. When arriving I ask anyone kind enough to help just to pass my lines back to me on board. I sort everything out to my liking after they have wandered off with my grateful thanks ringing in their ears and I've had a cup of tea.

 

[prv]

Yes. A round turn and two half hitches on one of the cleat legs is what I use if I'm stayaing for any length of time. When preparing to leave I change to slip ropes. When arriving I ask anyone kind enough to help just to pass my lines back to me on board. I sort everything out to my liking after they have wandered off with my grateful thanks ringing in their ears and I've had a cup of tea.

Can't argue with that :encouragement:

Pete

 

[Poignard]

Can't argue with that :encouragement:

Pete

Somebody will!

 

[Floyd Raser]

Blimey, this is now going round and round in circles...

It's all about communication; teaching and learning, then the application of these wierd terms in daily (or not!) use. This media is one of the best forms of communication on the planet so here's a challenge:
Grab your phone/camera and make a youtube vid showing how it works or why it doesn't.

 

[RichardS]

Here is an example of how people do it. Evidently - according to some 'experts' here - they have no sea-going experience and they have no clue as to what they are doing. Perhaps they should simply pile the eyes one on top the other and then just wiggle the bottom eyes up between the bollard and the other eyes when they need to depart. Should be easy, no? Proper piece of cake...

Ages ago I said that I could see how this dipping works with two eyes as I can visualise it, bit I can't visualise three eyes so asked whether it worked with three.

Your photo suggests to me that with three lines "dipping" will be a waste of time since the top line of the three in the picture cannot be released if the lower two are under tension.

Richard

 

[stranded]

Ages ago I said that I could see how this dipping works with two eyes as I can visualise it, bit I can't visualise three eyes so asked whether it worked with three.

Your photo suggests to me that with three lines "dipping" will be a waste of time since the top line of the three in the picture cannot be released if the lower two are under tension.

Richard

And though I can't figure if it makes a difference, that isbthe other way round to how I do it i.e come in from underneath so the second knot us underneath but the bight is on top. Not saying that is right before anyone jumps down my throat!

 

[GHA]

Ages ago I said that I could see how this dipping works with two eyes as I can visualise it, bit I can't visualise three eyes so asked whether it worked with three.

Your photo suggests to me that with three lines "dipping" will be a waste of time since the top line of the three in the picture cannot be released if the lower two are under tension.

Richard

Why wouldn't it?
It's outside the rest and once there's slack in the eye it should just lift off,

 

[prv]

the top line of the three in the picture cannot be released if the lower two are under tension.

?

Yes it can. Surely it's the one which most obviously can, as nothing else is crossing over the top of it.

Pete

 

[prv]

And though I can't figure if it makes a difference, that isbthe other way round to how I do it i.e come in from underneath so the second knot us underneath but the bight is on top.

Are we looking at the same picture? That's exactly what's shown in Puff's pic, with the rusty bollard and the pigeon.

The cleanest rope was there first, on top. The middle one was inserted next, and it's coming from below but the bight is above the clean one. Then the one with the longer splice (or larger loop, it's hard to tell) was inserted through both of them so the rope is at the bottom but the turn on the bollard is above the other two.

Pete

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Ages ago I said that I could see how this dipping works with two eyes as I can visualise it, bit I can't visualise three eyes so asked whether it worked with three.

Your photo suggests to me that with three lines "dipping" will be a waste of time since the top line of the three in the picture cannot be released if the lower two are under tension.

Richard

Look more carefully!

The top line has its eye at the very bottom. It can be lifted clear very easily once its owner releases the tension because none of the other lines is fouling it. The other lines can remain exactly as they are, with full tension on them.

If you follow the lines (not easy because of similar colouring, although one can make out a slight difference in shade) you should notice that:

The topmost line is on top with its eye at the bottom; it was the first one on the bollard.
The second to arrive is the middle line and its eye is also in the middle (second from the bottom).
The last one to arrive is the bottom line and its eye is at the top of the pile on the bollard.

Perhaps this coloured picture will be easier for you to follow:

 

[RichardS]

Are we looking at the same picture? That's exactly what's shown in Puff's pic, with the rusty bollard and the pigeon.

The cleanest rope was there first, on top. The middle one was inserted next, and it's coming from below but the bight is above the clean one. Then the one with the longer splice (or larger loop, it's hard to tell) was inserted through both of them so the rope is at the bottom but the turn on the bollard is above the other two.

Pete

If the line which is the top most of all three forms the eye which is the lowest on the bollard then I'm mis-reading the photo and you're right and it seems to work with any number of lines. I thought that the top line was forming the middle eye.

I've learned something from this thread, apart from the fact that I need to go to Specsavers!

Richard

Many thanks PTMD. That's more like it!

 

[l'escargot]

...then just wiggle the bottom eyes up between the bollard and the other eyes when they need to depart. Should be easy, no? Proper piece of cake...

Would it be any harder on departure than on arrival? Surely you can just as easily dip your rope in reverse on departure?

 

[stranded]

Are we looking at the same picture? That's exactly what's shown in Puff's pic, with the rusty bollard and the pigeon.

The cleanest rope was there first, on top. The middle one was inserted next, and it's coming from below but the bight is above the clean one. Then the one with the longer splice (or larger loop, it's hard to tell) was inserted through both of them so the rope is at the bottom but the turn on the bollard is above the other two.
Pete

I plead me eyes, better now with the coloured pic!