Deck Saloons

[pmagowan]

I have been reading through past threads on this subject and I have not yet got my head around it. I had initially thought that for my new boat I wanted 3 cabins and a pretty traditional layout. However, on further thought (and consultation) the idea of a deck saloon style yacht (such as the Rustler 44) came up and I discovered that people might be willing to sacrifice a aft cabin for some of its benefits. I have seen a number of 'DS' boats on the web and many of them choose to have the galley up there (which seems odd, deck-galley maybe). The Rustler has a lovely saloon with good all round views and, more importantly for me, a nav station where one could design an internal steering position.

My questions:

Firstly what do you all think about DS yachts in general, and different arrangements?
What happens to all the space underneath the raised saloon?
Does anyone have a Rustler 44 with a million photos of every little bit of it?

As you can tell I quite like the Rustler but I am unlikely to end up buying one, preferring the stupid idea of building my own boat. Any thoughts welcome.

 

[NormanS]

I am very aware of a somewhat smaller DS ketch which has both an aft cabin and a galley at a lower level than the DS. The space under the sole of the DS proves engine space with good access, and all the tankage.

 

[Tranona]

You need to look at Scandinavian boats such as Nauticats, Nordships, Reginas etc to see what can be done with deck saloons in your size range. The problem with many sub 40' is that people try to cram too much into the boat - you really need to have the volume to make it work. Many of the AWB "Deck Saloons" really have just raised cabin tops at the aft end which are light and airy but add little to the functional space.

If you want to have a raised deck saloon so that you can get engine, tankage etc underneath and use the space for an inside steering station you end up with a high outside cockpit that may still not allow enough height underneath for an aft cabin. In that size it is not possible to get a really good dining area and galley "upstairs" so you have compromise with one or the other at a lower level. Once you get above 45', particularly with modern long waterline length hulls, these constraints start to disappear.

To my mind the Nauticat 42 gets as close to the ideal as is possible in a more traditional style hull, but the same basic layout in a 39 is very cramped by comparison.

 

[snooks]

There are many Deck Saloons, which should be a saloon at deck level where one can see out of the Windows, not like the Jeanneau range where it means big windows (not the only culprits).

Other brands you could look at, depending on your budget:
Sirius, Nordship, Wauquiez, Discovery (new 48 coming soon), older Southerly. Garcia Exploration 45, Regina (now CR/Regina), Nauticat, Moody 46DS.

Some like Sirius and Nordship put a mid cabin under the saloon, others just have more stowage for tankage, supplies, generator etc.

I like the DS concept. Especially after cruising Scotland with Windows the size of 2 litre Coke bottles; could have been anywhere.

 

[snooks]

Double post

 

[NormanS]

I sail on the West Coast of Scotland, with a 36ft Deck Saloon ketch. With the best will in the world, you spend a lot of time at anchor, so to my mind, it seems a shame to have to sit down below. With a deck saloon, you can sit in comfort, both for eating and relaxing, and still be able to see and enjoy the scenery and wildlife.

We always sail from the outside steering position, but have been known to motor, in wet weather for example, in the warmth of the inside helm. What's not to like?

 

[Wansworth]

My ideal would be a 32 foot hull by Stephen Jones on the lines of the Sadler 29 with a wheelhouse on the lines of aFisher class with two proper setters. in the wheel house and the cooking and w.c etc forward with lots of space and access to the engine.On a custom interior there is no call for masses of berths if not required.Arranging good visibility from a sitting position and a standing are s9metimes hard to reconcile.

 

[westhinder]

I agree with Snooks and Tranona. I have been aboard my neighbours' Nordship 40 and it works really well. There is no point in having a raised coachroof if you do not have a 360° view when sitting down (Jeanneau-style).
If I ever get the chance to look for a next boat, a good deck saloon will be a serious option.

 

[ribrage]

I have been reading through past threads on this subject and I have not yet got my head around it. I had initially thought that for my new boat I wanted 3 cabins and a pretty traditional layout. However, on further thought (and consultation) the idea of a deck saloon style yacht (such as the Rustler 44) came up and I discovered that people might be willing to sacrifice a aft cabin for some of its benefits. I have seen a number of 'DS' boats on the web and many of them choose to have the galley up there (which seems odd, deck-galley maybe). The Rustler has a lovely saloon with good all round views and, more importantly for me, a nav station where one could design an internal steering position.

My questions:

Firstly what do you all think about DS yachts in general, and different arrangements?
What happens to all the space underneath the raised saloon?
Does anyone have a Rustler 44 with a million photos of every little bit of it?

As you can tell I quite like the Rustler but I am unlikely to end up buying one, preferring the stupid idea of building my own boat. Any thoughts welcome.

Personally I love deck saloon. I can't imagine not having the ability to see outside and be stuck in some white plastic cave for long periods.

My my galley is in the deck saloon and also a seating area for five , the main seating converts into a double bunk and I have large opening teak hatches above the bed to lay and stare at the skies, bliss !

 

[makingplansfor]

I am completely sold on the Deck Saloon format mostly for the same reasons as NormanS. I can't imagine anything changing when I am in the market for my retirement boat either. The Sirius and Nordship are to my mind the best examples of the concept but I will give a shout out to the Seastream class (a touch of bias perhaps) that is a good older example.

 

[[2574]]

To my mind the Nauticat 42 gets as close to the ideal as is possible in a more traditional style hull, but the same basic layout in a 39 is very cramped by comparison.

We have a Nauticat 39. We looked at the Nauticat 42, it is a lovely boat but we really didnt like the helm being offset to port. The cockpit on the N42 is high to create the palatial aft cabin and the cockpit seating wasn't to our liking. But down below the N42 is gorgeous. As you say the N39 is the same layout down below and we find it fine for us two on board. I agree that if you were cruising en famille then the N39 might seem too tight. We believe our N39 to be the perfect cruising boat for a couple. Hoards of kids - no.

To the OP - below the saloon sole we have the engine in the middle, tankage to starboard and a longitudinal midships cabin to port.

We are entirely biased but we love our N39 - Ireland and Scotland bound this year.....

 

[[2574]]

One of the things we did on our N39 to make her more comfortable was to swap out the orignal fixed saloon table for a folding leaf table as below. It makes the seating more "loungeable" rather than being forced to constantly sit up at a table.

 

[Resolution]

What happens to all the space underneath the raised saloon?

As said above somewhere, it provides space for all the water & fuel tankage, keeps the weight out of the ends and keeps it low down. When Jeanneau were making the Sun Odyssey 43 and the 43 DS the hulls and rigs were identical. The deck & superstructure were different. The Jeanneau test team found that , in any sea with a decent wind, the DS version was consistently slightly faster than the regular "flat top". I am sure Sailfree will be on soon to confirm this from his experience.
Peter

 

[[2574]]

For those that are interested you'll find the standard specification document for an N39 here:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64249185/brochure-nauticat 39.pdf

 

[Hacker]

I went on the Sirius at Soton BS having read about it in YM (I think). I was very impressed by the interior. Cabins were good and the hidden workshop was brilliant

 

[AliM]

We have a Sirius 310 deck saloon. Ours is set up for two people with occasional visitors, so we have a huge (for a 31ft boat) front cabin and heads, a decent galley on the lower level, and a seating area within the deck saloon. You can sit in harbour or at anchor and see all around, and can sail or motor from inside. Under the saloon is a large storage area/workshop. We sail winter and summer, and live on board for 4-5 months in the summer - in the Baltic for the last few years, but always back on the East coast in the winters. It is ideal for us. However, Sirius will build them in dozens of different layouts. Even if you don't want to buy a Sirius, it is worth looking at their designs to see a good range of possibilities. And if you go to Southampton (or Düsseldorf) boat show, go aboard and have a look at their boats. I am biased, obviously, but they are hard to beat! YM reviewed the three recent designs and gave them very high scores (snooks would remember). Have a look here:

Www.sirius-werft.de

 

[dancrane]

We sail winter and summer...

That's the critical point, I reckon. I only really sail for about five months per year...because I only have a dinghy.

Plenty of people seem to have spent 500 times as much as my dinghy cost me, but only get similar seasonal use of their purchase.

As soon as I spend money on a cabin boat, I'll want one I can use for pleasure, even when the weather's very cold & wet.

The performance of my dinghy is very rewarding, but the prospect of a weatherproof helm-position is equally as appealing.

I've sailed once this year already, and it wasn't a lot of fun. Open-cockpit winter sailors may be committed dinghy-racers or thickly-padded yachtists, but anyone with the option to steer indoors in shirt-sleeves with the heater on, must spend the most time grinning.

 

[Tranona]

That's the critical point, I reckon. I only really sail for about five months per year...because I only have a dinghy.

Plenty of people seem to have spent 500 times as much as my dinghy cost me, but only get similar seasonal use of their purchase.

As soon as I spend money on a cabin boat, I'll want one I can use for pleasure, even when the weather's very cold & wet.

The performance of my dinghy is very rewarding, but the prospect of a weatherproof helm-position is equally as appealing.

I've sailed once this year already, and it wasn't a lot of fun. Open-cockpit winter sailors may be committed dinghy-racers or thickly-padded yachtists, but anyone with the option to steer indoors in shirt-sleeves with the heater on, must spend the most time grinning.

If I was buying a 40' boat without a budget constraint, I too would go for a deck saloon - and like Robih I could cope with a Nauticat 39, or even a 37 now I don't go long distance and liveaboard. However, once you get smaller than that the compromises are too great for me and so accept the limitations of a "conventional" cruiser with a really good sprayhood. Decision helped by the fact that a new Nauticat would be over 4 times the price of my Bavaria! Even the much smaller Sirius referred to above is 3 times the price.

 

[snooks]

YM reviewed the three recent designs and gave them very high scores (snooks would remember). Have a look here:

Www.sirius-werft.de

YM haven't tested the 310, that was PBO

But we have tested the 35 and the 40. I only wrote the test of the 40.

However I have also spent a lot of time on the Sirius boats having shot the photography for the 310 brochure and video, 360 tour and brochure imagery for the 40, I also recently shot video of the Sirius 35.

 

[pmagowan]

Lots of information there, thanks.

I will look at all those boats in detail. I like the concept and I think it might work out better than cramming 2 cabins in the stern. I am slightly concerned about having too much protection up above as I don't want to feel enclosed when sailing. Some of the boats you guys listed have really quite hefty superstructures which certainly would be comfortable but they may take away too much of the feeling of being part of the environment. I suppose it is personal taste and everything is a compromise. One good point about raising the saloon to a full deck saloon is you essentially get a room underneath for the engine and gubbins. I am not yet 100% sold on this but I certainly like the concept and am drawn towards some variation of it.

I like in the Rustler that the saloon is not entirely seperate from the galley, the deck structure overshooting it forward. However, I would not know how much of a compromise the relatively low deck structure would be with regards to an internal steering position. I do like the cavernous rear cabins these designs allow. I am used to a berth on the saloon seat with my feet in a hole!

Anyway, thatks for all the comments, it has given me something to think about. I do plan some high lattitude sailing so I will also have to keep an eye on the potential strength of large windows.