Crossing the E Channel under spinnaker....

[Fantasie 19]

.... F3 west veering through north to the east. two people on board, night crossing.

Smart or silly ?

...that's your call...

 

[dancingwithmoons]

It was really a hypothetical question to 'test the water'.

I dont think I have the confidence to go forward, with just one person in the cockpit, in the dark to deal with the kite. My biggest concern would be gybing as we have a heavyish pole which has to be dipped. The mast end has to slide up the track to create sufficient angle to get the outer end inside the forestay. All this in a swell, clipped on, etc.

I would probably just drop the sail altogether instead - that assumes we managed to get it up in the first place!

Still having problems getting it up then Nick?

 

[benjenbav]

Depends on who the two people are. Two good young racing sailors - no problem. Me and another 60 year old - well we would not use a spinny with just the two of us anyway. Would you think of doing it on your new Starlight? If its like its smaller sister it isnt rigged for easy spinny handling

LOL. I happened to bump into the OP the day before yesterday and this ain't a theoretical question. It's what he and another forumite are planning to do tomorrow. Actually he invited me to the pub beforehand and I have a concern that I may be shanghaied and forced to work the foredeck for them whilst they sit in the cockpit eating deep-fried mars bars and generally offering advice.

At least if there's a bit of west in the breeze they can steam across on starboard.

 

[wotayottie]

Why's that then? Wife and I have flown our spinnaker for many years, still do and both well past 60. Perhaps our most memorable was Port Ellen to Bangor NI, flew it the whole way and dropped it 100 metres from the marina entrance. Averaged 10 knots over the ground, admittedly with a good tide under us for most of the way.

We have flown it for most of a Channel crossing, Cornwall to Camaret, 20 hours including a night passage. Traffic was something of a problem, but not too bad and that was before we had radar. Probably rather different at the eastern end but certainly doable.

and

SWMBO often fly ours and carried it from Dartmouth to the Needles one memorable passage, we are both the wrong side of 60. If its rigged properly what's the problem?

Interesting comments and I would be fascinated to hear how you do it. When we race we need a crew of 4 to fly the spinny effectively and even then we have some cock ups particularly when hoisting. And thats with one man on the foredeck, one on the helm , and two in the pit doing the hoisting furling sheets guys etc.

My wife is 4ft 11 and not particularly strong. So what does she do when we are two up? Foredeck handling both a large masthead pole and a heavy spinny, or cockpit doing the helming, reefing sheets and guys?

In fact the more I write about it the more interested I am in how you manage it and what your physical capabilities are . Tootling along with it up is easy with just 2 people but hoisting, dropping and gybing? Details please

 

[prv]

Interesting comments and I would be fascinated to hear how you do it. When we race we need a crew of 4 to fly the spinny effectively and even then we have some cock ups particularly when hoisting.

Don't forget that when you're cruising you have plenty of time to prepare, get the pole up and ready, jib away, etc. It's not like racing where you do everything at once as you come round the mark.

Pete

 

[AngusMcDoon]

I've crossed the North Channel under spinnaker from Ardglass to Ailsa Craig. Where is this East Channel of which you write, and are there South and West Channels as well? Why wouldn't you fly a spinnaker at night?

The West Channel is that big watery bit between the North Channel and the North-West Passage.

 

[jhr]

LOL. I happened to bump into the OP the day before yesterday and this ain't a theoretical question. It's what he and another forumite are planning to do tomorrow. Actually he invited me to the pub beforehand and I have a concern that I may be shanghaied and forced to work the foredeck for them whilst they sit in the cockpit eating deep-fried mars bars and generally offering advice.

Damn. It looks like we've been sussed, Nick

 

[GruffT]

Tootling along with it up is easy with just 2 people but hoisting, dropping and gybing? Details please

Letterbox drop (under the boom and down the companionway) with autohelm is pretty straight forward (or with the helm easing the haliyard), as is a hoist (1 to open the bag and bump at the mast, other tailing and helming if necessary).

Just be prepared to have it flap around a bit as it's going up / down, or wool it.

Also, who said you had to gybe it? You can always drop and re-hoist on the new gybe....

2 hander races do quite a bit of kite work on their own and single handers to it all!

 

[KellysEye]

Jane and I wouldn't fly a spinnaker at night it's potentially trouble if the forecast is wrong. In particular you don't want to be on the fordeck at night. Twin headsils on a furler is another matter and we do keep those up at night.

 

[wotayottie]

2 hander races do quite a bit of kite work on their own and single handers to it all!

Fine but they arent usually mid 60s and 4ft 11.

Always thought the letterbox drop was between the boom and the loose footed main but either way we usually bung it down the companionway. But its a big barsteward ( masthead rigged 35/6 ft boat) and often requires the efforts of two of us to pull it in and get it down the companionway. Meantime who is stopping the pole from banging against the forestay and putting it back in front of the mast?

Weather is obviously an issue. Clearly less of a handful in 5 kn than in 20kn but when you put it up in 5 do you really know that you arent going to be presented with a 20 kn gust?

 

[vyv_cox]

In fact the more I write about it the more interested I am in how you manage it and what your physical capabilities are . Tootling along with it up is easy with just 2 people but hoisting, dropping and gybing? Details please

Jill helms pretty much all the time, I do deck work.

Hoisting: spinnaker in turtle just ahead of the mainsail. The sheet goes to a block right aft and is cleated at the winch. I put the guy in the pole jaws then walk back to the cockpit. Hoist the pole lift, then haul up the spinnaker, winch in the guy. With experience the sheet will be near enough in the correct position, some adjustment once the sail is pulling.

Gybing: I adjust the sheets so both are pulling. Slacken the guy, walk forward, move the pole from the mast to the new guy (we have a babystay, so no pole dips), pole end on the mast. Jill sometimes needs to slacken the pole uphaul. I walk back, Jill gybes the boat, I adjust everything.

Dinner on the table, more later

 

[wotayottie]

Jill helms pretty much all the time, I do deck work.

Hoisting: spinnaker in turtle just ahead of the mainsail. The sheet goes to a block right aft and is cleated at the winch. I put the guy in the pole jaws then walk back to the cockpit. Hoist the pole lift, then haul up the spinnaker, winch in the guy. With experience the sheet will be near enough in the correct position, some adjustment once the sail is pulling.

Gybing: I adjust the sheets so both are pulling. Slacken the guy, walk forward, move the pole from the mast to the new guy (we have a babystay, so no pole dips), pole end on the mast. Jill sometimes needs to slacken the pole uphaul. I walk back, Jill gybes the boat, I adjust everything.

Dinner on the table, more later

Hoisting: you make it sound so easy. Who furls the genny whilst you are doing the spinny guy and sheet, or do you hoist bare headed?
Gybing : So who does the main whilst Jill is behind the wheel jibing the boat and you are handling two spinny guys and two spinny sheets?

 

[vyv_cox]

Hoisting: you make it sound so easy. Who furls the genny whilst you are doing the spinny guy and sheet, or do you hoist bare headed?
Gybing : So who does the main whilst Jill is behind the wheel jibing the boat and you are handling two spinny guys and two spinny sheets?

Always bare headed. I furl before going forward to set the pole up

Gybe while the spinnaker is still on the sheets. I hand the main across, usually centre the traveller first. Once on the new gybe I haul in the new guy.

Dropping it: always back into the turtle, just ahead of the main. I release the guy and walk forward to begin gathering the foot of the sail behind the main. Jill then releases the halyard with one turn on the winch, which usually allows me to control the drop while stuffing the spinny into the turtle. I normally lower the pole and get all the sheets/guys tidied up but sometimes Jill releases the pole uphaul while I am still forward. We normally leave all the sheets rigged, snap shackles on the pulpit eyes and ropes in cowlicks alongside the cockpit.

 

[LittleSister]

Meantime who is stopping the pole from banging against the forestay and putting it back in front of the mast?

You can rig the pole 'cruising style': with uphaul, foreguy, and aftguy. That way you can get the sail down and leave the pole where it is (not banging about at all) until its convenient (daybreak?) to get it stashed away. NBG for racing, of course, but just the ticket if you're cruising short-handed.

 

[GruffT]

Always thought the letterbox drop was between the boom and the loose footed main

True true. - was being lazy typing! Under the boom works too though.

Meantime who is stopping the pole from banging against the forestay and putting it back in front of the mast?

You could argue it doesn't matter - it's not (or shouldn't be!) loaded.


The secret to going up or down is to only have 2 corners held in at any one point. As long as the 3rd is free to flog the kite won't fill. It might make a noise but it won't load up. For either hoist or drop don't forget to turn downwind to ~165AWA so the main/jib are giving you a nice blanket.

For the hoist I'd leave the headsail up, attach the sheet but leave slack, free to run out if necessary. Set the pole up and square back so it's just off the forestay, 'sneaking' the guy, and locked off. It can help to bunch the foot as it goes out to the pole, you can band or wool this if you're nervous. Quick hoist up and on a relatively small boat it should stay in a sausage behind the jib. If not, no worries, the sheet will run and it will flog. Pop back, trim the sheet to fill. Settle down, oversheet a little and drop / furl the jib. Get the butties out.

For the drop, oversheet a little, make sure the guy & halyard are flaked and free to run (all the way if necessary), if it's all calm you can hoist / unfurl the jib (skip this step in a rush). Grab the lazy guy and feed through between the foot of the main and the boom (or just under the boom) and down the hole.

Blow the guy - all the way (this stops the pole loading up and snapping the forestay), the kite will depower, dump a few meters of halyard and then ease as you pull the kite down by the lazy guy and away. Trot forward and tidy up the pole. Pop the kettle on. (ps. don't do this step too early or the kite down the hole and into the galley bit goes up in flames!)

In a breeze you definitely need to be able to run the guy / sheet out until the kite flogs completely - you really don't want it powering up halfway up or down. Don't forget you can just let it run through the blocks and re-feed it later.


EDIT : Don't forget - you need to be happy you will be able to drop on your own (or cut the kite away) if it comes to it and your buddy goes for an unscheduled swim....