Conversion to Junk RIg

[DownWest]

It’s 2023, I really don’t understand why anyone is interested in junk rigs these days except as an historical curiosity. You may as well put a square rig on your yacht if you want to pretend to be an ancient mariner. If you want an interesting version, then you should be looking at wing sails, especially collapsible wing sails. Otherwise, there’s nothing that a conventional Bermudan rig can’t do better than a junk which is why nobody makes or races, junk rigs anymore.

Deary me... I think that the 'popularity' of the Bermudan rig has been outed as pushed by ratings and fashion. Meanwhile, plenty of people enjoy less stressed rigs for cruising and generally enjoying sailing. Not to mention saving a bundle of money. Plenty of gaffs about...
It now seems like the trend in bigger boats is moving from ketch rigs to bermudan, with higher loads and the resulting costs when their 'life' is limited by insurance considerations.

 

[B27]

Deary me... I think that the 'popularity' of the Bermudan rig has been outed as pushed by ratings and fashion. Meanwhile, plenty of people enjoy less stressed rigs for cruising and generally enjoying sailing. Not to mention saving a bundle of money. Plenty of gaffs about...
It now seems like the trend in bigger boats is moving from ketch rigs to bermudan, with higher loads and the resulting costs when their 'life' is limited by insurance considerations.

Ketch and Bermudan are not mutually exclusive.

It's interesting IMHO to compare the relative merits of triangular bermudan sails, mains with a lot of roach, 'square top' mains, wishbones, gaffs and all that.
What's best tends to be heavily influenced by what you're trying to keep constant, a square top main is the best bet for a given length of mast, an elliptical planform is arguably the most efficient in abstract, a simple bermudan with modest roach is likely most cost effective.
Maybe if we designed rigs around reducing the 10-yearly wire replacement cost instead of the initial cost, the answer would be a little different?

I don't think the potential of carbon masts has really been exploited in cruising boats yet, for a given weight aloft, we could have less wire and more simplicity? Or even no wire, like a Hoyt Freedom rig?

I have a book about Cat racing, there's a picture of a wing-masted C class cat on a trailer behind a Ford Zodiac. Sailing is slow to adopt new tech sometimes!

 

[srm]

Or even no wire, like a Hoyt Freedom rig

Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to sail a junk rig. I did get the chance of a day sail on an aft cockpit Freedom 40. The masts and rig was impressive, but I felt a bit exposed on deck as no shrouds to provide a safe hand hold.

2009 I was anchored in the Helford river when a Freedom 33/35 (same hull but the 35 included the rudder for marketing in UK) with junk sails single handed tacked up the river and anchored near us, without use of an engine. The tacking angle looked wide, but obviously no effort for the guy in the cockpit, just put the helm over and about she went. Likewise sail reduction and stowing was almost instant. Very different to the same evolutions on my own boat with a bermudan rig.

 

[Poignard]

Junk rig

 

[38mess]

1.5 billion Chinese must be on to something

 

[Tranona]

It’s 2023, I really don’t understand why anyone is interested in junk rigs these days except as an historical curiosity. You may as well put a square rig on your yacht if you want to pretend to be an ancient mariner. If you want an interesting version, then you should be looking at wing sails, especially collapsible wing sails. Otherwise, there’s nothing that a conventional Bermudan rig can’t do better than a junk which is why nobody makes or races, junk rigs anymore.

That is perhaps because nobody makes boats like the OPs Kingfisher any more. It lent itself to the junk rig for simplicity and low cost and is still a viable low budget boat. The problem for the OP is the cost and work required to convert an existing boat as it would be a DIY job that includes some structural work.

 

[LittleSister]

Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to sail a junk rig. I did get the chance of a day sail on an aft cockpit Freedom 40. The masts and rig was impressive, but I felt a bit exposed on deck as no shrouds to provide a safe hand hold.

Yes, the absence of the shrouds you were expecting does come as a bit of a surprise at first on a junk or other rig with an unstayed mast. On the other hand, the need to actually be out of the cockpit faffing about with the sails is very much reduced on most such rigs, and one could spend some of the cash, weight and windage saved by not having shrouds and stays to install some handrails (and have them where most useful, rather than only where shrouds needed to hold up the mast).

While we're on the topic of unstayed masts, I think someone above suggested that junk rig was an obsolete technology. I note that aviation mostly gave up having wings held in place by tensioned wires nearly 100 years ago!

 

[Poignard]

Yes, the absence of the shrouds you were expecting does come as a bit of a surprise at first on a junk or other rig with an unstayed mast. On the other hand, the need to actually be out of the cockpit faffing about with the sails is very much reduced on most such rigs, and one could spend some of the cash, weight and windage saved by not having shrouds and stays to install some handrails (and have them where most useful, rather than only where shrouds needed to hold up the mast).

While we're on the topic of unstayed masts, I think someone above suggested that junk rig was an obsolete technology. I note that aviation mostly gave up having wings held in place by tensioned wires nearly 100 years ago!

My wife and I were once invited on board a junk-rigged ketch for drinks and it not having any shrouds to grab hold of when climbing over the guardrails was mildly disconcerting.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

1.5 billion Chinese must be on to something

You never see junk rigs in Hong Kong, except on tourist vessels - and the rig is obviously not functional on these vessels. Thousands of small craft with traditional hull shapes, but no junk rigs.

 

[DownWest]

?

I don't think the potential of carbon masts has really been exploited in cruising boats yet, for a given weight aloft, we could have less wire and more simplicity? Or even no wire, like a Hoyt Freedom rig?

I have a book about Cat racing, there's a picture of a wing-masted C class cat on a trailer behind a Ford Zodiac. Sailing is slow to adopt new tech sometimes!

Back in '56, my father built a small tri with a wing mast and foils (he had studied aerodynamics pre-war) I was too young to sail it, but by all accounts it was quite fast, if difficult to control.

 

[38mess]

You never see junk rigs in Hong Kong, except on tourist vessels - and the rig is obviously not functional on these vessels. Thousands of small craft with traditional hull shapes, but no junk rigs.

I guess they don't need sails anymore on their workboats. But they must have used junk rig for thousands of years until relatively recently.

 

[Stemar]

I have to say that, at my age, when I want easy cruising and can live with less than ideal windward performance, a junk rig does have a certain appeal. A few extra tacks really don't matter when all I have to do is turn the wheel or push the tiller. Fitting one to our Catalac might be interesting, though

 

[DownWest]

I guess they don't need sails anymore on their workboats. But they must have used junk rig for thousands of years until relatively recently.

Reliable engines converted most fishing and workboats from sail to power, except in the poorest areas.

 

[jdc]

...2009 I was anchored in the Helford river when a Freedom 33/35 (same hull but the 35 included the rudder for marketing in UK) with junk sails single handed tacked up the river and anchored near us, without use of an engine. The tacking angle looked wide, but obviously no effort for the guy in the cockpit, just put the helm over and about she went. Likewise sail reduction and stowing was almost instant. Very different to the same evolutions on my own boat with a bermudan rig.

Well I do this multiple of times every year, so nowt special about tacking up the Helford to anchor without using the engine. Frequently singe handed, and I sail a Bermudan rigged boat (and one with runners too). Takes about 5 secs to drop the main or furl the staysail...

The advantages of a junk rig seem to me to be exaggerated, I really don't find the Bermudan rig so hard to handle and sailing long distances two-up it's rare that the one on watch has to wake/call the other when going about or reefing (which means my partner can handle it herself, and she's quite small). Modern materials make a difference, as do fully battened mains and cars, winches on the coach-roof, jammers, roller furling jibs etc.

 

[jdc]

Reliable engines converted most fishing and workboats from sail to power, except in the poorest areas.

And in Falmouth, where it's only legal to trawl/dredge if under sail (and that only in the winter months). All the fishing work boats are gaff rigged.

 

[Kelpie]

The advantages of a junk rig seem to me to be exaggerated, I really don't find the Bermudan rig so hard to handle and sailing

Having to turn in to the wind is a pain. I'm jealous of junk rigs being able to reef while going downwind. And being able to dump the sheet to depower completely.
I would have very much liked that ability when the squalls were coming thick and fast across the Atlantic.

 

[DownWest]

Talking about unstayed junk rigs, here is a stayed one:


Photo bit carp, but you can see the shrouds. Model about 3ft long and bought in the '20 by Mrs DW's grandfather, then a Commander in the USN on the China Station. It was old back then.
Model due it's yearly dust and tidy.

 

[dunedin]

I have to say that, at my age, when I want easy cruising and can live with less than ideal windward performance, a junk rig does have a certain appeal. A few extra tacks really don't matter when all I have to do is turn the wheel or push the tiller. Fitting one to our Catalac might be interesting, though

But there are hundreds of other boats with self tacking jibs (Hanse being just one example) that can tack by just turning wheel / pushing tiller - but also make much better progress to windward.
And with a fully battened mainsail can do the reefing in the dry under the sprayhood, and if setup correctly an instant drop of the mainsail into a stackpack if needed.

Clearly the Junk rig had many convenience issues over the Bermudan rig of the day when the first Jester was built - but the alternative then had lots of hank on jibs needing to be dragged up on deck to be changed, and mainsails that needed to be reefed from on deck. These inconveniences have long since been eliminated from almost every cruising yacht.

 

[WoodyP]

K20+JR Technical
The KYOA is a good place to start.
Also the club has some archive information.

 

[Pye_End]

Following on from the articles on the web-site relating to a junk rig arrangement, has anyone gone through the conversion process? I have a kingfisher K22 and would love to convert it over to a junk rig but can't seem to find the relevant information or find people who have done it. Is it a simple process or would it be better to sell/swap my K22 for a K22JR ? Or maybe PBO would like to use me / it as a guinea pig and do an article on how to go about it?

Pretty sure there was a K22 junk conversion on the Jester Challenge 2016.