chriss999
Well-known member
I didn’t measure it. Not noticeable, presumably the mast disrupts air flow on both tacks.
Conversion to Junk RIg
- Thread starter pij27
- Start date
pij27
Member
Thanks she looks niceHere are a few.
LittleSister
Well-known member
No winches required. No patent parts like goosenecks, travellers, clutches, turnbuckles, reefing gear and other gubbins inside booms. All basic domestic/industrial bits and a lot of string. Nothing under great tension. No drama.
LittleSister
Well-known member
. . . no dyneema, sail laminates or in-mast reefing required.
Poignard
Well-known member
It'll never work!
srm
Well-known member
Its far too easy and simple to understand!
Seems to be the theme of so many threads. A fairly straight forward question is asked, one or more simple answers are given then more and more complications and of course advanced technology are added until there is little or no resemblance to the OP.
Poignard
Well-known member
Q Can anyone tell me how to get to....?
A1. Why do you want to go there?
A2. Only a fool would go there!
A3. Let me tell you where I went.
KevinV
Well-known member
And of course "You don't want to start from here"
dunedin
Well-known member
But that is the way internet forums work
If you want specific advice and not prepared to filter the replies on a forum, pay a boatyard or rigger for what you want.
(But even then, the best advice may actually come from somebody on the forum)
JRCO26
Member
Racing is the reason. In any other sense, a well set up junk rig is superior for cruising - in my opinion. Other's will have different opinions - and that is absolutely fine - though I have at least sailed my previous boat (a Contessa 26) under both bermudan and the converted junk rig version, so I may have a little skerrit of knowledge.
JRCO26
Member
Plenty of good windward work here in the junk rigged Contessa 26 I recently sold (for a bigger boat along the same lines - a Twister that will also be converted to junk rig).
Something to call out is that my sail is built with plenty of camber, i.e a 'barrel' shape. It's a powerful rig to windward, and frankly on any point of sale. Blondie Haslar's junk rig sail designs were all flat - has it's own merits , but a lot slower to windward without the camber sown in.
Something to call out is that my sail is built with plenty of camber, i.e a 'barrel' shape. It's a powerful rig to windward, and frankly on any point of sale. Blondie Haslar's junk rig sail designs were all flat - has it's own merits , but a lot slower to windward without the camber sown in.
Poignard
Well-known member
As the owner of a Twister, I'd be interested to know how converting yours works out.
DownWest
Well-known member
Just curious about the camber, Is there much difference on each tack? Are your batterns flat?
JRCO26
Member
DownWest
Well-known member
Thanks for that. It still begs the question, as your rig in the vid has the batterns attached at the ends only, allowing the sail to assume a very differtent shape than on the other tack, pressing against them. The link has a 'conventional' rig with sleeved batterns.
Poignard
Well-known member
The same question could be asked about the sprit rig.
I think I have read all the published books about spritsail barges (I probably own a copy of them!) but I don't remember reading that they sailed better on the starboard tack, although logic says they would (the sprit usually being on the starboard side of the mainsail).
I think I have read all the published books about spritsail barges (I probably own a copy of them!) but I don't remember reading that they sailed better on the starboard tack, although logic says they would (the sprit usually being on the starboard side of the mainsail).
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JRCO26
Member
The battens are fully lashed to the sail. That's the only difference to them being in pockets - the sail would behave exactly the same if they were in batten pockets,
dunedin
Well-known member
I would be interested in seeing some proper polar diagrams of measured speeds at various true wind angles for that sail. The “cambered” - ie baggy sail - has a consequence a very hooked leech to the sail. Which tends to cause excess heeling and drag.
It is great that enthusiasts like their boats. But I am very far from convinced that it is an improvement over a Bermudan rig, except possibly downwind in certain circumstances (and without spinnakers on the Bermudan).
The somewhat analogous reef-able wing sail set on an unstayed mast briefly prototyped a few years ago (by Beneateau?) might have been a better bet though?
JRCO26
Member
Proper polar diagrams? Really? No offense, but that is a little over the top. It's just a rig - in my opinion the best rig for cruising - but others will have different opinions on that, which is fine - but there is a much chance of me providing 'polar diagrams of measured speeds' as me becoming the world's sexiest man in 2024
.That's fine if you are not convinced it is an improvement over a Bermudan rig. However, what you should understand is that the junk rig is hundreds, if not thousands of years older than the bermudan / marconi rig. The bermudan rig is a relatively modern idea, brought about chiefly for racing. So, having cleared that up, no, there is no way a junk rig can compete,all things being equal. with a bermudan rig on the same boat, if we are talking about speed.
But, we are not all of us interested in racing around the cans. And I would point out the abomination of bermudan rig cat condo's which are basically glorified motor sailors. So, for me it is always the boat first, the rig comes second.
The point being, there are some rubbish boats set up with Bermudan rig, and some rubbish boats set up with Junk rig. Once you have a good boat, you then make your decision on what rig is best...many just go with the status quo of keeping the original rig which is very very likely to be Bermudan,or if an older classic, possibly a Gaff. So, I don't blame people for keeping those rigs - converting to a properly well set up Junk rig is not cheap - there is a whole lot of ballyhoola rubbish written by junk rig aficionado's on how supposedly "cheap" it is - if you want quality, if you want a 'performance' junk rig - no, it 'aint cheap..
My Contessa would have cost me at least $NZD 25,000 to convert to junk rig when you take into account the carbon mast, the blocks, the labour of my sailmaker, and the labour to build the keel step and mast partners, the running rigging etc etc. Like a lot of things in life that bring one pleasure - it makes no economic sense, but the ole 'you pays yer money and makes your choice' is what it really boils down to.
For me, I want a rig that I can solo while raising and (especially) lower sail in a nano-second (and I do mean seconds) in all wind conditions, on any point of sail, while metaphorically wearing my slippers in the cockpit or from the companionway. I also want a rig that I do not have to touch a winch when I tack. And I am prepared to put up with a little less speed - that is the trade off.
However, while I never got the chance as Contessa 26'ers are very rare in NZ, I have no doubt that I could hold my own - speed wise - against a bermudan rigged Contessa in cruising mode without tricked out laminated sails and other high end bermudan sail and rig configurations that you would get on, say, Jeremy Rogers (rest in peace) Contessa 26 that he campaigned in the Round Island Races some years back - which are also very expensive...I dare say most Contessa owners have sails that are 5 or 10 years old, as do most average joe cruising sailors or weekend warriors in whatever make of boat.
In closing, their is a lot of claptrap written about junk rig from people that have never sailed in one - and a good one at that. There are plenty of turtle like boats that were non performers under bermudan, that are even worse performance under junk post conversion.
There is also a lot of claptrap written by some junk rig afficianando's too, especially about the supposed 'cheap' cost of the rig. I have hopefully busted that big lie in this post.
So, at the risk of belabouring the point - first find a boat that sails well, that you don't have to flick on the motor in 10 knots of wind to get anywhere, and rig the boat as you wish. I choose to rig mine as junk, and will continue to do so for the reasons outlaid.
Cheers
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JRCO26
Member
In this video, I raise the camera to near the top of the mast, and it gives a reasonable birds eye view of the sail panels, the battens etc - not a usual angle of view one gets of a properly built cambered junk rig sail.
Cheers
Cheers