COLREG Survey - Familiarity with sailboat day signals

[Neeves]

Neglection of sailboat day signal

Greetings. I would kindly ask you to please take a minute to complete a questionnaire that aims to test your knowledge of Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea regarding the use of day signals on sailing vessels.

I have declined from completing the questionnaire.

I find it presumptuous to encourage completion of a survey when the managing party are unable to provide their full organisation name and point of contact. They access, in this case, our email address but remain anonymous. No-one provides their email address on this forum, except by PM - why should we provide that information to an anonymous survey. On the form inviting completion it advises the email address will not be divulged but does not mention how else the email address might be used.

Particularly as the survey at best is spurious. Surely there are more important aspects of leisure marine safety than using a cone to indicate we are using a mechanical device to engender movement.

Beggars belief.

Jonathan

 

[Leighb]

I have used mine, correctly, when off the Belgian and Dutch coast as was aware that their authorities were inclined to be picky.

One occasion I did not was when a beat in the Wallet turned from being unpleasant to downright nasty and we were being totally stopped by every third wave, I turned on the engine in order to maintain progress, I was definitely NOT venturing out on deck to try and attach and hoist a cone!!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Obviously but the "conclusion" I want to see reached is that because the motor sailing cone is hardly ever displayed on fore and aft rigged yachts and hardly anybody cares that it isn't, it might as well be dispensed with in the ColRegs.

Some time ago, I worked out the visibility of day signals. Basically, a day signal of a size that most yachts can carry is not distinguishable at any meaningful distance. Further, it will be obscured by the mast or rigging over a small but not insignificant part of the circle.

"The human eye has an angular resolution of about 1 arcminute (0.02 degrees or 0.0003 radians) which enables us to distinguish things that are 30 centimetres apart at a distance of 1 kilometre."

That's distinguishing two adjacent points, not distinguishing shape. I doubt very much that the shape of a typical day shape can be distinguished at distances much over 500m, PROVIDED it isn't obscured by the mast or the shape distorted by (say) a furled jib. I am ignoring the use of binoculars, because a vessel is unlikely to be examined with binoculars unless it has already attracted the attention of a watch keeper.

In terms of our interaction with commercial vessels, day shapes aren't distinguishable at long enough distances to be useful; a ship that's within a kilometre of me is already committed to its track, and can't react to whatever day shape I'm exhibiting. Others have reported that if they are aware of a ship altering course for them, it is at a distance of several nautical miles. In terms of our interactions with each other, we can under almost all circumstances successfully predict each other's movements without needing to know the information given by day shapes.

The presence or absence of sails is a far better indicator!

 

[Never Grumble]

I put my 'motoring cone' up the other week in the Solent.

 

[mattonthesea]

With respect to John Morris #9 I thought the questionnaire was so basic and poorly formatted it must have been compiled by a child of 10.

I haven't looked at this one - I wanted to read the comments first in case it was a scam.

But your comment is true of many questionnaires. As part of a university research team I often took the role of intelligent vandal. Could I cock up (nautical expression) the results through misinterpretation or ambiguity? Then we would pilot it and complete other testing. And we might include 'honesty' testing with a range questions that a negative response was highly unlikely. "Have you ever not displayed a motoring cone when the COLREGs indicate that you should?"
The trouble is that I am now so embarrassed about my earlier surveys ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might ask , is the 'Motoring Cone' officially a Black Colour ? might it be more noticeable if say in Orange , as that colour might enable easier identification from a distance ?

 

[awol]

Might ask , is the 'Motoring Cone' officially a Black Colour ? might it be more noticeable if say in Orange , as that colour might enable easier identification from a distance ?

Answer to this and other questions can be found in the IRPCS (you do have a copy, don't you?) . Annex 1 Para 6 in this case.

 

[Poignard]

Answer to this and other questions can be found in the IRPCS (you do have a copy, don't you?) . Annex 1 Para 6 in this case.

You really are a supercillious little .........

 

[Capt Popeye]

Answer to this and other questions can be found in the IRPCS (you do have a copy, don't you?) . Annex 1 Para 6 in this case.

Ahoy there 'awol' , no ' I not have a copy or even know what IRPCS is at all , but guess its about Vessel navigation ; might state that only part of my Question will likely be in that IRPCS , the other part will not ; so I ask again , if the Colour of a Cone (or moored) sign was a different colour , like Orange , is it likely that it would be more visable ?

Thank you CP {#

 

[gordmac]

How are other boats to know a boat with sails is also motoring if you don't put a cone up?

 

[Poignard]

Ahoy there 'awol' , no ' I not have a copy or even know what IRPCS is at all , but guess its about Vessel navigation ; might state that only part of my Question will likely be in that IRPCS , the other part will not ; so I ask again , if the Colour of a Cone (or moored) sign was a different colour , like Orange , is it likely that it would be more visable ?

Thank you CP {#

IRPCS : International Regulations for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea or, less formally, the ColRegs.

Orange shapes might be more visible but I suppose the reason it is black is because in the days when the ColRegs were first compiled, orange paint would not have been readily available whereas black paint or tar would have had its place in any boatswain's locker.

 

[kalel20]

They access, in this case, our email address but remain anonymous. No-one provides their email address on this forum, except by PM - why should we provide that information to an anonymous survey. On the form inviting completion it advises the email address will not be divulged but does not mention how else the email address might be used.

Where did you get the idea that we are collecting your e-mail address? No one is asking for your e-mail address. You are not required to log in anywhere. Survey is completely anonymous. Anonymous means that the author or origin is unknown to us. We have no idea who gave what answer.

 

[Poignard]

Where did you get the idea that we are collecting your e-mail address? No one is asking for your e-mail address. You are not required to log in anywhere. Survey is completely anonymous. Anonymous means that the author or origin is unknown to us. We have no idea who gave what answer.

It is a great pity that you have met with such unwarranted rudeness here.

Are you able to tell us the name of your 'Maritime Facility in Europe' and what its purpose is?

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

How are other boats to know a boat with sails is also motoring if you don't put a cone up?

What happens if one boat puts a cone up but the other boat doesn't see it?

 

[RunAgroundHard]

What happens if one boat puts a cone up but the other boat doesn't see it?

It doesn't exist.

 

[Birdseye]

Just filled in the survey and confessed to never using a motoring cone.

I did twice when doing the YM practical. On the second occasion my examiner was heard to say to one of my crew "he's put that bloody thing up again!"

 

[Poignard]

What happens if one boat puts a cone up but the other boat doesn't see it?

'

(e) A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards.

If there was a collision I suppose the outcome of any enquiry might hinge on whether the conical shape was, in fact, exhibited where it could best be seen.

Where that place is on the typical modern yacht with her sails set, I have no idea.


Well I do have an idea, but not one that would excite much enthusiasm in me or anyone else since it would be a nuisance arranging it, and that is mounted on a pole ahead of the forestay.

 

[NormanS]

I can see some logic in the requirement for a motoring cone in some conditions, and I can see lots of sense in using an anchor light, but unless I happen to be anchored in a fairway, the need for an anchor ball escapes me.
If someone entering an anchorage can't see that I'm at anchor, then the chances are that he won't be able to see an anchor ball either.

 

[Poignard]

The subject of motor-sailing cones seems to be one of perennial interest here

 

[FWB]

I can see some logic in the requirement for a motoring cone in some conditions, and I can see lots of sense in using an anchor light, but unless I happen to be anchored in a fairway, the need for an anchor ball escapes me.
If someone entering an anchorage can't see that I'm at anchor, then the chances are that he won't be able to see an anchor ball either.

Your insurance company may take a different point of view if you are hit.