Clacton and Walton Lifeboats

[Juan Twothree]

An 85 as you yourself said earlier would make more sense. But keeping the ALB would be best because to reiterate there is no other ALB in Essex apart from Clacton, and it’s not beach resorts that we are concerned with, it’s the estuary and particularly the offshore banks.

The only reason I said that an 85 might have been a better choice is that it has a higher retirement age. D classes have a strict 55 limit.

An 85 is bigger and heavier, and needs a much beefier tractor to launch it across the beach, requiring a much larger boathouse.

As part of the reason the Shannon couldn't go to Walton was a lack of space for a Shannon sized boathouse, perhaps lack of space was also a factor in deciding on a D class rather than an 85.

 

[Juan Twothree]

(coughs quietly) I wrote “an inshore boat” because that is what Walton are getting. They are not getting an Atlantic 85. Walton doesn’t have a lot of work for an inshore boat because it’s not that sort of a place. Its ALB goes all over the estuary, very often to the rescue of yachts and inshore fishermen.

An 85 as you yourself said earlier would make more sense. But keeping the ALB would be best because to reiterate there is no other ALB in Essex apart from Clacton, and it’s not beach resorts that we are concerned with, it’s the estuary and particularly the offshore banks.

At the moment, the only ALB is at Walton (Titchmarsh).
Clacton hasn't had an ALB since the 1980s.

Walton Lifeboat is going, and is effectively being replaced by the new ALB going to Clacton, 5 miles along the coast.

This has zero impact on lifeboat cover in the area, other than an ALB will now be able to get to a job off Walton at least 30 minutes quicker than at present, and considerably quicker than that if the job is further south.

 

[MoodySabre]

Unfortunately can’t see it all my present location.

What was the Look East line

They just reported it. The aggrieved volunteers and the RNLI had their say.

I can only watch it on iPlayer

 

[14K478]

At the moment, the only ALB is at Walton (Titchmarsh).
Clacton hasn't had an ALB since the 1980s.

Walton Lifeboat is going, and is effectively being replaced by the new ALB going to Clacton, 5 miles along the coast.

This has zero impact on lifeboat cover in the area, other than an ALB will now be able to get to a job off Walton at least 30 minutes quicker than at present, and considerably quicker than that if the job is further south.

I know. But:

Suffolk:
Yarmouth: ALB
Lowestoft: ALB
Southwold: D class
Aldeburgh ALB

On the border :
Harwich: ALB

Essex

Clacton: ALB
West Mersea: D class.

Now, which area has lots of yachts, container ships etc making for London from the Sunk, and almost all the offshore sandbanks?

 

[nortada]

By it’s attitude the RNLI management is shooting itself in the foot. The RNLI relies on public goodwill for funding and this continuing argie-bargie will result in a reduction in of financial support.

Unfortunately like many large charities, the upper echelons are ‘professionals’, who do not appear to share the ethos of that charity but see it as just another business opportunity. Should the worst happen they will just move on to another opportunity that will offer disproportionate renumeration.

Not the same but similar root problems (lack of communication) have led to the ongoing post office debacle.

I am hearing a growing number of people saying, because of the high salaries paid, they will no longer support the larger charities.

This can only reduce the service available to those who need it the most.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I believe that the current CEO only drew half of his salary, at least for part of his incumbency.

I was talking to him today at the Westminster Abbey service. I could have asked him.

I know he did take a cut during Coronavirus but perhaps you could clarify his current salary of £160k .

This from the RNLI website.
Since his commencement with the RNLI in May 2019, the current Chief Executive has personally chosen not to accept any annual pay increases, he does not receive any additional allowances, he does not receive a Company Car or Car Allowance and has also chosen not to receive RNLI employers’ pension contributions. The Chief Executive does have an employee benefit of 1 x salary life assurance cover.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I know. But:

Suffolk:
Yarmouth: ALB
Lowestoft: ALB
Southwold: D class
Aldeburgh ALB

On the border :
Harwich: ALB

Essex

Clacton: ALB
West Mersea: D class.

Now, which area has lots of yachts, container ships etc making for London from the Sunk, and almost all the offshore sandbanks?

So you're saying the RNLI has got the lifeboat cover in that area wrong for the last 50 years?

That part of the Thames Estuary has always had a large number of ILBs, due to the shallow depth, plus the types of calls that arise. There are also a limited number of places where an ALB can be based.

And historically the container ships you mentioned have never generated many (or any in fact) calls, other than people going overboard, for which an ILB is ideal.

To correct your list above:

Yarmouth: ALB plus Atlantic

Lowestoft: ALB plus D class

Southwold: Atlantic

Aldeburgh: ALB plus D class, (ALB shortly being replaced by Atlantic)

Harwich: ALB plus Atlantic

Walton: D class

Clacton: ALB plus D class

West Mersea: Atlantic

Burnham: Atlantic plus D class

 

[Juan Twothree]

By it’s attitude the RNLI management is shooting itself in the foot. The RNLI relies on public goodwill for funding and this continuing argie-bargie will result in a reduction in of financial support.

This can only reduce the service available to those who need it the most.

It's not the CEO who decides which lifeboats get put where. That is down to the managers on the coast, most of whom are former volunteer crew themselves.


Every five years, a delegation from head office, plus the local manager, visits every lifeboat station and discusses with the crew whether their current boat and equipment is suitable, the type and number of calls they've had since their last visit, and any local future plans or issues that might affect the lifeboat service there. Any changes to lifeboat cover are decided on that basis.

The public can only form an opinion based on what they read and hear in the media. When those reports are heavily biased or completely untrue ("a large area of the Thames Estuary will only be covered by a rubber dinghy....... An Atlantic 85 only has a range of 6 miles at sea), there's very little the RNLI can do to counter that.

 

[14K478]

So you're saying the RNLI has got the lifeboat cover in that area wrong for the last 50 years?

I’ve lived in and sailed in this area for over sixty years so I do know a bit about it.

This isn’t fifty years ago and fifty years ago, as I and many others know-

1. There were ALBs at both Clacton (slipway launched - boathouse on pier) and Walton (on mooring at pier head - boarding boat) and at Harwich (mooring in the harbour, as now).

2. There was an active fishing industry at both Yarmouth (which was also a rig supply base) and Lowestoft.

Clearly, the RNLI solution will be to withdraw another boat from either Lowestoft or Yarmouth to even things up. Another useful saving!

 

[Motor_Sailor]

I know. But:

Suffolk:
Yarmouth: ALB . . . . .

I see your very selective and inaccurate list has already been corrected, but it's worth extending it to cover the north part of Kent if you're worried about coverage of the Thames Estuary.

Norfolk:
Yarmouth: ALB

Suffolk:
Lowestoft: ALB
Southwold: Atlantic
Aldeburgh ALB + D Class

Essex
Harwich: ALB + Atlantic
Clacton: ALB + Atlantic + D Class
West Mersea: Atlantic
Burnham on Crouch: Atlantic + D Class
Southend: Atlantic + 2x D Class + Hovercraft

Kent (South side of Thames Estuary)
Sheerness: ALB + D Class
Whitstable: Atlantic
Margate: Atlantic + D Class
Ramsgate: ALB + Atlantic

If there is a gap in ALB coverage it isn't between Walton and Harwich, but rather Walton and Sheerness. This is understandable as there probably isn't anywhere suitable for a station, but moving the boat to Clacton will improve things slightly, and certainly not make things any worse.

 

[14K478]

I see your very selective and inaccurate list has already been corrected, but it's worth extending it to cover the north part of Kent if you're worried about coverage of the Thames Estuary.
....

If there is a gap in ALB coverage it isn't between Walton and Harwich, but rather Walton and Sheerness. This is understandable as there probably isn't anywhere suitable for a station, but moving the boat to Clacton will improve things slightly, and certainly not make things any worse.

That there seems to be such a gap - between Walton and Sheerness - is what I have been trying to say. Your gratuitous attempt to suggest that I was implying a "gap" "between Walton and Harwich" is perhaps "selective and inaccurate"

Anyway, the horse appears to be quite dead, now.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Clearly, the RNLI solution will be to withdraw another boat from either Lowestoft or Yarmouth to even things up. Another useful saving!

I think you're just being silly now.

Any decision to remove a boat and replace it with another type is based on a whole load of factors, as I've mentioned previously.
Not everything is to do with saving money, there are practical considerations too.

If you want to take the argument to its nth degree, Clacton is losing its 35 knot Atlantic, being replaced by a 25 knot Shannon.

Where are all the public protests, petitions and mass resignations about that?

That there seems to be such a gap - between Walton and Sheerness - is what I have been trying to say. Your gratuitous attempt to suggest that I was implying a "gap" "between Walton and Harwich" is perhaps "selective and inaccurate" .

The perceived gap between Sheerness and Walton has never been an issue. If it was, the RNLI would have put an ALB somewhere, although options would have been limited. Burnham maybe?

The old ALB at Clacton, replaced by an Atlantic in the 80s, only ever did 9 knots, as did Walton back in those days. Sheerness had a Waveney, doing14 knots, from 1974.

Everything now is 25 knots minimum, and as Motor Sailor has pointed out, having the "northern" ALB at Clacton rather than Walton only improves the situation.

If you want to talk about gaps, West Mersea and Whitstable only opened in 1963, Burnham in 1966, and Sheerness in 1969.

So back in the day, there were no lifeboats between Southend, Margate and Clacton, all of which had 9 knot boats back then.

That's a very long time to get to someone in distress.

The improvements to lifeboat cover in the Thames Estuary over the last 50 years have been huge.

 

[Pye_End]

Personally, I think we are incredibly lucky to have so many resources available to look after us in our hour of need. I don't recognise the institution that some paint.

 

[dunedin]

I know. But:

Suffolk:
Yarmouth: ALB
Lowestoft: ALB
Southwold: D class
Aldeburgh ALB

On the border :
Harwich: ALB

Essex

Clacton: ALB
West Mersea: D class.

Now, which area has lots of yachts, container ships etc making for London from the Sunk, and almost all the offshore sandbanks?

Not sure that the sea and seagoing craft worry about land based council boundaries.

And the coverage around there is HUGELY better than further north. There are huge chunks of NW coastline with zero boats of any type within 40 miles.
I am no expert on this area but root issue seems to be the current ALB berth becoming unfit for purpose, whereas there is a suitable ALB berth available nearby. And replacing with an inshore boat covers any fast response need for swimmers etc.

So what is your proposed solution for the ALB berth issues? As a long terms RNLI member, I could not support spending millions on a berth when a suitable one already available nearby, when there are so many bigger gaps in the network elsewhere,

 

[Plum]

I see your very selective and inaccurate list has already been corrected, but it's worth extending it to cover the north part of Kent if you're worried about coverage of the Thames Estuary.

Norfolk:
Yarmouth: ALB

Suffolk:
Lowestoft: ALB
Southwold: Atlantic
Aldeburgh ALB + D Class

Essex
Harwich: ALB + Atlantic
Clacton: ALB + Atlantic + D Class
West Mersea: Atlantic
Burnham on Crouch: Atlantic + D Class
Southend: Atlantic + 2x D Class + Hovercraft

Kent (South side of Thames Estuary)
Sheerness: ALB + D Class
Whitstable: Atlantic
Margate: Atlantic + D Class
Ramsgate: ALB + Atlantic

If there is a gap in ALB coverage it isn't between Walton and Harwich, but rather Walton and Sheerness. This is understandable as there probably isn't anywhere suitable for a station, but moving the boat to Clacton will improve things slightly, and certainly not make things any worse.

For completeness, not all Lifeboats are provided by the RNLI, there are independant ones too. For example, Felixstowe. https://www.felixstowecoastpatrol.co.uk/home who are a declared asset to HM Coastguard. (I have no connection to Felixstowe Coast Patrol & Rescue). Are there any others? We are lucky to be so well served on the East Coast.

 

[14K478]

Having started out agreeing with "Juan Two Three" and "Motor Sailor", I became the Bad Guy, being "selective and inaccurate" in pursuit of a "Golden Age", because I wondered if there was a case to be made for keeping an all weather lifeboat in Walton,

Carry on, chaps.

 

[Dee Bee]

For completeness, not all Lifeboats are provided by the RNLI, there are independant ones too. For example, Felixstowe. https://www.felixstowecoastpatrol.co.uk/home who are a declared asset to HM Coastguard. (I have no connection to Felixstowe Coast Patrol & Rescue). Are there any others? We are lucky to be so well served on the East Coast.

Caister and Sea Palling and Hemsby are independent

 

[nortada]

Caister and Sea Palling and Hemsby are independent

There was a time when Walton had an independent boat (True to the Core) that competed with institute boat.

 

[ianc1200]

Behind a paywall - has anybody got access to copy & paste the text?

Volunteer told to ‘resign or face sack’ for criticising RNLI management

 

[dunedin]

Having started out agreeing with "Juan Two Three" and "Motor Sailor", I became the Bad Guy, being "selective and inaccurate" in pursuit of a "Golden Age", because I wondered if there was a case to be made for keeping an all weather lifeboat in Walton,

Carry on, chaps.

Not the “bad guy” - we just asked what you thought the solution would be to maintain a safe ALB berth at Walton? Did you have a solution?