penberth3
Well-known member
ETA, I spoke too soon - Post #37!
My mistake, I shouldn't have expected truth, accuracy and balance from a newspaper.
Clacton and Walton Lifeboats
- Thread starter Juan Twothree
- Start date
ETA, I spoke too soon - Post #37!
My mistake, I shouldn't have expected truth, accuracy and balance from a newspaper.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
It's the RNLI's 200th birthday on Monday, which is already generating plenty of positive media coverage, so we're expecting the Mail to run some negative stories to spoil the event.
Although to be honest, they don't really need to, as even when they run a positive story their readers are so well trained that they dive in with literally thousands of disparaging comments.
ianc1200
Well-known member
It's just publishing a letter from one of our locals - other media clearly wants to hide the depth of feeling/astonishing bad relations between the local RNLI and the RNLI management + summarily dismissing people who have been volunteers for decades.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
The circumstances around the gentleman being stood down were explained at the time by the RNLI.
Local anger regarding the withdrawal of the Tamar is understandable, but doesn't fix the problem of where to put it.
As far back as October 2022, the lifeboat station put out a statement on their Facebook page accepting that mooring the boat at the end of the pier wasn't an option, due to the state of the structure plus weather limitations.
The debate at that time was whether they should have an Atlantic 85 or a D class instead.
There was no outrage that the ALB was being withdrawn, just an acceptance that there was no practical alternative.
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penberth3
Well-known member
Wow, do you write for the Tabloids as well? Fortunately, this thread has provided the other side to the story.
ianc1200
Well-known member
?
Is relaying the depth of feeling amongst very long term volunteers not allowed then?
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
And right on cue, there's a huge hit-piece on Mailonline today, highlighting every instance over the last few years of crew that have been stood down, and basically slagging off the RNLI.
I've stated previously on here that the RNLI don't just stand someone down for no reason.
Every single one of the examples quoted only has half the story, as usual.
Such as the situation at Walton, where "a large area of the Thames Estuary will only have a 3 man rubber dinghy protecting it".
No mention of the ALBs at Clacton, or Harwich.......
There are already nearly 2000 comments from readers, pretty much all hostile towards the RNLI.
I know that the Mail likes to get its readers angry, but I just don't understand why they want to try to destroy the institution like this.
Because ultimately that's what's going to happen.
I've stated previously on here that the RNLI don't just stand someone down for no reason.
Every single one of the examples quoted only has half the story, as usual.
Such as the situation at Walton, where "a large area of the Thames Estuary will only have a 3 man rubber dinghy protecting it".
No mention of the ALBs at Clacton, or Harwich.......
There are already nearly 2000 comments from readers, pretty much all hostile towards the RNLI.
I know that the Mail likes to get its readers angry, but I just don't understand why they want to try to destroy the institution like this.
Because ultimately that's what's going to happen.
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nortada
Well-known member
Are you a prophet or what
RNLI whistleblowers: Bosses 'put lives in danger' by sacking veterans
Living in Walton I have had a ringside seat on the goings on.
My view as it is their bat and ball, the RNLI could have managed this situation better.
As one could expect there is a lot more to this than has been published but I don’t intend to drag it all up, save to say that the Walton boat was purchased by a local family, with the expressed wish that the boat they bought for Walton, should remain in Walton.
The bottom line is that the RNLI has forfeited tons of local good will and this part of the world has lost a huge amount of local knowledge which will be hard to replace so all are the poorer.
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Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Are you a prophet or what
RNLI whistleblowers: Bosses 'put lives in danger' by sacking veterans
Living in Walton I have had a ringside seat on the goings on.
My view as it is their bat and ball the RNLI could have managed this situation better.
As one could expect there is a lot more to this than has been published but I don’t intend to drag it all up, save to say that the Walton boat was purchased by a local family, with the expressed wish that the boat they bought for Walton, should remain in Walton.
The bottom line is that this part of the world has lost a huge amount of local knowledge which will be hard to replace so all are the poorer.
No, not a prophet! But it was fairly obvious that the DM wouldn't let any positive publicity for the RNLI go by without sticking the knife in.
It's the same when a celebrity has died. They wait a few hours until the body is cold, and then run a hit piece slagging off the deceased and bringing up old news stories from the past.
Back to Walton, 18 months ago the crew accepted that there was nowhere to moor the Tamar, and that it had to go. The debate was over whether it should be replaced by an Atlantic or a D class.
So as a knowledgeable local, where do you suggest they put the current boat?
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nortada
Well-known member
Why is this issue so important to you; are you a local lad
nortada
Well-known member
Sorry, I am not going get too involved. Is your vendetta with the Mail or the lifeboat folk or both
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Sorry, I am not going get too involved. Is your vendetta with the Mail or the lifeboat folk or both
It's certainly not a vendetta against the crew. I'm crew myself (not at Walton), and I too would be upset if the RNLI were to take my orange toy away.
But at the same time I'd like to think that I'd be realistic if it was because of changed local circumstances over which no one, certainly not the RNLI, has any control.
All the constant negative publicity and half-truth media stories can have an insidious effect, and gradually wear down the crew, plus it does affect public opinion. We do what we do thinking that the public generally supports us, but when we get shouted at or threatened in the street, or I receive messages online hoping that my children get raped (not from this forum I'd hasten to add), it all gets a bit much sometimes.
Hence my heart sinks a little every time the DM or GB News take another swipe at the RNLI.
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nortada
Well-known member
To open another bag of worms. I increasingly hold the view that safety at sea is far too serious to be left to an amateur organisation; however good they may be.
I suggest, the UK should have an organisation similar to the US Coastguard, responsible for all aspects of coastal waters.
But fear not, it won’t happen - it would cost far too much and involve a level of accountability, neither of which our politicians would be comfortable with so we will continue as is, which I must admit has been good for many years.
But will it be fit the future
Time or the next disaster will tell.
Boathook
Well-known member
I wouldn't call the RNLI amateur.To open another bag of worms. I increasingly hold the view that safety at sea is far too serious to be left to an amateur organisation; however good they may be.
I suggest, the UK should have an organisation similar to the US Coastguard, responsible for all aspects of coastal waters.
But fear not, it won’t happen - it would cost far too much and involve a level of accountability, neither of which our politicians would be comfortable with so we will continue as is, which I must admit has been good for many years.
But will it be fit the future
I would hate it to become something like the US coastguard or else where. Be an excuse to bring licenses in for boat owners to help 'finance' it. Plus how do control all those reckless people swimming, walking, kayaking, etc, that require recusing ?
nortada
Well-known member
Do the volunteers get paid
No - then they are amateur but that does not detract in any way from what they do.From experience, the USCG are very professional and good at what they do.
Bringing in licenses, it is interesting that maritime activities are not licensed, all other activities are.
Not too sure about your last sentence - you don’t control anybody - you just rescue them (from their folly).
ianc1200
Well-known member
Much as I do when the BBC/Sky News/Channel 4 also suppress news.
14K478
Well-known member
The Walton boat having been funded largely by a very big local donation is something to keep in mind.
The beach runs out much further at Walton than it does at Clacton which is why the pier (originally both Clacton and Walton were steamer piers) is so much longer at Walton. This makes a beach launched boat easier to arrange at Clacton than at Walton.
Might it be possible to keep the Tamar on a mooring at Stone Point, rather than in the Twizzle, with a fast RIB to get to it?
The beach runs out much further at Walton than it does at Clacton which is why the pier (originally both Clacton and Walton were steamer piers) is so much longer at Walton. This makes a beach launched boat easier to arrange at Clacton than at Walton.
Might it be possible to keep the Tamar on a mooring at Stone Point, rather than in the Twizzle, with a fast RIB to get to it?
nortada
Well-known member
Stone Point, not a viable solution but why not let Harwich cover this area
The Walton situation is 2 fold; operational and emotional.
Now that lifeboats can achieve 25+ knots and Harwich is a sheltered, all states of the tide location, it’s a no brainier - but manning the boat could present a problem.
The emotional/sentimental argument is a totally different issue and in this area the RNLI could have handled it a whole lot better.
Juan Twothree
Well-known member
Stone Point, not a viable solution but why not let Harwich cover this area
The emotional/sentimental argument is a totally different issue and in this area the RNLI could have handled it a whole lot better.
Giving Walton an 85 rather then a D class might have made things more palatable, as it would have meant that those crew over the age of 55 could have continued to serve in the boat.
On your other point, there won't be a problem crewing the new boat at Clacton. They've got lots of people on their books, and a large centre of population from which to draw future crew.
Training starts in the next few weeks on a relief Shannon, and their own boat is taking shape at the ILC in Poole.
Their own boat is taking shape at the ILC at Poole.
Motor_Sailor
Well-known member
During the time I've had a connection with the RNLI, there's been an understandable cultural shift in the working of the RNLI. When I started, there was much greater autonomy at the stations with the Hon Sec and Coxswain having a huge sway over the Station's affairs, reinforced by the almost god like status they enjoyed in the local communities. The boats were low tech and very similar to the ones used by the fishermen (who largely made up the crews) from their everyday working lives. But in the last 30 years, the boats have become increasingly sophisticated just as the proportion of professional seafarers in the crew has diminished. This societal change, together with the evolution of organisations need to exercise a 'duty of care', has resulted in the HQ at Poole, being far more involved in the running of all aspects of the various stations. They now need to train, monitor and manage the organisation as a whole, taking at times difficult decisions that aren't going to please everyone. Clearly some long serving members preferred the old feudal days, but they are now long gone.
There's lots you can criticise about the RNLI and a lot it could probably do better. But to do things better they are going to have to make changes and if individual members can't accept those changes, then it's hard to see how they can continue to be involved, however long they have served or emotionally attached they may feel.
And as for the replacing it with a professional service - be careful what you wish for! If anything, the RNLI are overly keen to launch but this is to the huge advantage of us recreational sailors as things like engine trouble, fouled propellers, etc make up a sizeable proportion of the launch needs. The US coastguard certainly wouldn't come out for things like that. All you hear on the VHF when you sail along the US coast is: "Station calling US Coastguard group Philadelphia - We deem that your situation does not immaediately endanger the life of you or your crew, so we suggest you call a commercial towage or salvage company".
There's lots you can criticise about the RNLI and a lot it could probably do better. But to do things better they are going to have to make changes and if individual members can't accept those changes, then it's hard to see how they can continue to be involved, however long they have served or emotionally attached they may feel.
And as for the replacing it with a professional service - be careful what you wish for! If anything, the RNLI are overly keen to launch but this is to the huge advantage of us recreational sailors as things like engine trouble, fouled propellers, etc make up a sizeable proportion of the launch needs. The US coastguard certainly wouldn't come out for things like that. All you hear on the VHF when you sail along the US coast is: "Station calling US Coastguard group Philadelphia - We deem that your situation does not immaediately endanger the life of you or your crew, so we suggest you call a commercial towage or salvage company".