Cat Virgin - help please

[Irish Rover]

Hi,
I have zero experience on catamarans and I've recently bought a motor cat which I'm going to collect from Greece in early April. When I say zero experience I mean I'd never been on a cat until a couple of months ago when I did a 15 minute jaunt around Lefkas harbour on the boat I eventually ended up buying and I haven't been on one since or even seen my own boat since. I'm obviously going to have to learn a lot "on the job" as I plan to collect the boat and sail from Preveza to Kusadasi in early April. I've had a number of different boats over the last 20 years but all were mono-hull single engine motorboats so twin engines and twin hulls are new to me and I don't mind saying I'm more than a little apprehensive. So I'd love to hear from anyone who can offer any advice.
One of the things which will be new to me is having to use an anchor bridle and I imagine with a bit of practice I'll get used to it. Immediately however for the trip home I'm going to have to figure out what to do when med mooring without the benefit of lazy lines. How do you judge when to attach the bridle as you go stern to in a harbour?
As I found out on a couple of other threads posters on here are very generous with information and advice and also very patient and indulgent when dealing with stupid questions from virtual rookies. So here I am again asking for help.

 

[Bajansailor]

Re using your anchor bridle while stern to - I really cannot see any need for this.
The bridle is designed to make the boat sit more quietly while she is at anchor, ie reduce her tendency to 'sail from side to side' - or in other words to make her more directionally stable.
If you are moored stern to a quay, this will not be necessary, hence I think that you can safely not worry with the bridle.
It might be useful though to put a short rope snubber on to the chain, so that the load is taken off the windlass. However if you have a substantial pawl that locks the chain in place and is capable of holding the weight of the boat at anchor, then you could just use this instead.

You will find that a twin engine cat is an absolute doddle to manoeuvre, especially in comparison to a single engine monohull (and even more so if that single engine was an outdrive rather than a shaft drive).

(BTW, the boat in my avatar is a 15 m. aluminium power cat water taxi that I designed and helped to build 17 years ago, and she is still going strong, with minimal maintenance required over the years).

 

[RupertW]

Re using your anchor bridle while stern to - I really cannot see any need for this.
The bridle is designed to make the boat sit more quietly while she is at anchor, ie reduce her tendency to 'sail from side to side' - or in other words to make her more directionally stable.
If you are moored stern to a quay, this will not be necessary, hence I think that you can safely not worry with the bridle.
It might be useful though to put a short rope snubber on to the chain, so that the load is taken off the windlass. However if you have a substantial pawl that locks the chain in place and is capable of holding the weight of the boat at anchor, then you could just use this instead.

You will find that a twin engine cat is an absolute doddle to manoeuvre, especially in comparison to a single engine monohull (and even more so if that single engine was an outdrive rather than a shaft drive).

(BTW, the boat in my avatar is a 15 m. aluminium power cat water taxi that I designed and helped to build 17 years ago, and she is still going strong, with minimal maintenance required over the years).

Agree with all the above and would add that well fendered sterns means you can park more easily as two stern lines held back to the quay will be nearly as stable as a monohull alongside a wall, so you can come in with a slacker anchor chain and tighten up afterwards.

As I spent years of my youth playing a video game at higher and higher speed where you had to steer a tank with left and right throttles I'v loved manouvering a twin engined cat. All that wasted time turned out to be on a simulator for the task, but even so I think it's very intuitive and makes turning so much easier in a tight space. Wish I could afford to own some of the cats I've sailed.

 

[Neeves]

With twin engines you will be able to turn the boat in its own length, it takes a bit of practice if there is wind or current - but they are infinitely manoeuvrable. Just don't be too aggressive. You will find the beam a bit daunting to start with - but will soon get used to it.

I'd use the bridle when you stern moor. A snubber of some form will be useful and attaching a bridle is no more difficult that attaching a snubber, both use a chain hook - and frankly I cannot see the difference. I cannot advise how it might attach - we attach ours at the bow but some cats attach further aft nearer the mast - but its really not difficult.

Ours is a 11.5m x 6.67m sailing cat.

Jonathan

 

[RichardS]

I am with Jonathan here .... our bridle from the bows is our snubber. I always use it an anchor and would use it when moored stern-to if there is wind or swell but not if it's calm ... just unnecessary hassle in that case.

Two engines are indeed a "good thing" although twice the cost to maintain. However, it's very reassuring to have a backup if one has a problem .... just shut it down and head for a good anchorage or marina on one engine and fix it at leisure.

Richard

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and information. My concern about using the bridle when anchoring stern-to is because I thought I would need to let out a few additional meters of chain after attaching the bridle in order for the bridle to take the strain. Is this wrong? Here's a pic of the actual bow and I assume what we see is the bridle rode

 

[alant]

Hi,
I have zero experience on catamarans and I've recently bought a motor cat which I'm going to collect from Greece in early April. When I say zero experience I mean I'd never been on a cat until a couple of months ago when I did a 15 minute jaunt around Lefkas harbour on the boat I eventually ended up buying and I haven't been on one since or even seen my own boat since. I'm obviously going to have to learn a lot "on the job" as I plan to collect the boat and sail from Preveza to Kusadasi in early April. I've had a number of different boats over the last 20 years but all were mono-hull single engine motorboats so twin engines and twin hulls are new to me and I don't mind saying I'm more than a little apprehensive. So I'd love to hear from anyone who can offer any advice.
One of the things which will be new to me is having to use an anchor bridle and I imagine with a bit of practice I'll get used to it. Immediately however for the trip home I'm going to have to figure out what to do when med mooring without the benefit of lazy lines. How do you judge when to attach the bridle as you go stern to in a harbour?
As I found out on a couple of other threads posters on here are very generous with information and advice and also very patient and indulgent when dealing with stupid questions from virtual rookies. So here I am again asking for help.

One common problem with a motor cat (or even one with a mast), is trying to head directly into wind & waves, particularly at any reasonable speed. Last one I delivered vibration was so high that I couldn't read the paper chart I was using & certainly wasn't able to plot any course, very uncomfortable. Otherwise they are fine & as previously mentioned, easy to manouver.

 

[RichardS]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and information. My concern about using the bridle when anchoring stern-to is because I thought I would need to let out a few additional meters of chain after attaching the bridle in order for the bridle to take the strain. Is this wrong? Here's a pic of the actual bow and I assume what we see is the bridle rode View attachment 68473

I agree that where the chain comes from just ahead of the bridgedeck rather than off the front crossbeam, you do need to let out a lot of chain before the snubber/bridle actually does anything. Our cat also has bridgedeck windlass and for that reason I've never attached the snubber when stern-to although I usually use lazy lines or anchor.

I guess that if I felt the need to use the bridle because of impending bad weather I would go around to the bow in the dinghy or swim around and get the hook on much further down the chain although that is a lot of hassle unless really necessary.

Richard

 

[Irish Rover]

Something else that's been puzzling me although it's not specific to catamarans. My boat has a flybridge helm and a helm station in the saloon with a joystick rather than a wheel. Please remember I've only been on this boat for total 15 minutes so I may be writing rubbish. Anyway when I was on the flybridge the view to the stern wasn't great and was obstructed by the sunshade over the after deck. In addition that sunshade slightly obstructs the stairs from the flyb insofar as you need to bend a little to get down. The view aft from the saloon helm station is a bit better but the tender does obscure it and it's difficult to see the quarters. So my question do I control from the flybridge helm or the saloon helm when mooring stern-to between 2 other boats at close quarters. I assume for this purpose that I'm not going to use the rudders at all for maneuvering regardless of where I'm controlling from. See pics

 

[RichardS]

I've always thought that the higher you can get, the better the view and the more easily you can give instructions to, and hear replies from, crew on the boat or the pontoon/quay.

My cat only has the outdoor helm position but that gives a reasonable view of the corners most of the time. However, a crew member stationed at the bow on the opposite side to the helm station is very helpful.

When close manouvering you do need to be aware of what the rudder is doing. If you reverse for a few moments and then go ahead, the rudders can be flicked off to the side by the reverse. When you then try and use the engines to turn whilst moving ahead the prop wash off the turned rudders can catch you out unless you remember to centre them.

Richard

 

[catmandoo]

I note your forward bridge deck is solid . that means you can't cut through large waves on the nose as would a monohull . Be prepared for a lot of banging and vibration as the boat rises to ride on top and slaps down in the troughs . . Better to motor at 45 degrees to the swell

 

[Irish Rover]

I note your forward bridge deck is solid . that means you can't cut through large waves on the nose as would a monohull . Be prepared for a lot of banging and vibration as the boat rises to ride on top and slaps down in the troughs . . Better to motor at 45 degrees to the swell

I’m not sure if this solid deck was an option or a design modification. As far as I can see from the limited number available for sale only the 2003 models have this. All the others are open or have a canvas trampoline strung across which I’ve been told was the prevent bow splash from reaching the fly bridge but I’m not sure how true that is.

 

[RichardS]

I note your forward bridge deck is solid . that means you can't cut through large waves on the nose as would a monohull . Be prepared for a lot of banging and vibration as the boat rises to ride on top and slaps down in the troughs . . Better to motor at 45 degrees to the swell

I guess you mean solid as opposed to a trampoline?

The usual reason for slamming is a nacelle pointing down between the hulls at the bridgedeck or just a low bridgedeck generally. The sizes of waves that one would need to be out in to make a solid high foredeck any worse than a trampoline would surely not be the kind of seas that one would ever deliberately sail in?

It's certainly not something that I've ever encountered more than one or twice in 10 years of cat sailing.

Richard

 

[Neeves]

When we manoeuvre at close quarters I would lock the rudders amidships and steer only using the engines, so throttle and forward and reverse. This means you might not turn as quickly but you only have the engines to worry about. As you can turn a cat, with practice, within its own length not using the rudders is not a major imposition. But make the manoeuvres slowly. If you do not lock the rudders the speed of reverse can push the rudders to full lock - and then when you go forward the yacht will 'follow' where ver the rudders might be - and this will be unpredicted.

We can see the 4 corners from the helm but our helm is on starboard side so I'd tend to come alongside on that side, leaving the port side to look after itself - you just need to ensure there is a big enough gap and on that assumption running the side I'm nearest close to ensures the other side will be fine. Before you enter a small gap - get mooring lines attached to each corner and have the fenders rigged.

When short handed - I have the starboard side mooring lines rigged and run to beside the helm, both of them. I can then be alongside, leap, like a 20year old (I try to step off the transom now that I've matured), with the lines onto the dock, pontoon and quickly secure the yacht. I also have a long mooring line with a bowline in the middle, for the middle cleat. I can then, simply using this one line, control yacht movement fore or aft. If there is someone shore side I'd try to get them the nearest line before entering the gap.

On use of bridle and its 'need' for extra chain. I'd suggest that this issue really only develops in specific circumstances when you will only be deploying short chain lengths. I'd suggest marking the 'beginning' of the chain at 5m lengths. Then simply attach the bridle early, knowing that the bridle will 'need' say 10m to become effective. Think of the bridle as being part of the chain - you need to deploy 20m, the bridle is say needing 10m - then attach the bridle at 10m and deploy the rest. If the bridle demands only 7m then attach between 10m and 15m - when the bridle is effective you will have 20m of chain, including bridle deployed. But in a Med moor you will not need the bridle - as you will be pinned between other yachts and hopefully can run lines off the bow - but if you are 'first in' then a bridle will stabilise the yacht whilst you attend to other lines - and will do no harm. I might add - we can vary our bridle length - if its fixed length its more difficult.

Most bridles are attached to the cross beam, or strong point on the bows. If you want to use the bridle frequently and find judging distances difficult - make up a special bridle just for Med mooring. Attach to the bow cleats - with rope to spare. Then if you need an extra 3m simply deploy an extra 3m of bridle on each side. You can always take it on and off. All you need is a hook in the middle and enough length to allow you 'flexibility' or error room (but keep the attached bridle, which should have elasticity) for normal anchoring).

If the seas are breaking - I cannot suggest going directly to windward. In a monohull its easier you can steer to miss the breaking seas - this is not possible in a cat as you can miss a breaking sea with one hull but not always both. As has been mentioned take the seas at an angle - or better wait till the conditions improve (the whole idea being you do not have a schedule (or you do but its dictated by the weather). You will destroy marital harmony in trying to emulate King Canute - thinking you can control the sea.

Jonathan

 

[RichardS]

When we manoeuvre at close quarters I would lock the rudders amidships and steer only using the engines, so throttle and forward and reverse. This means you might not turn as quickly but you only have the engines to worry about. As you can turn a cat, with practice, within its own length not using the rudders is not a major imposition. But make the manoeuvres slowly. If you do not lock the rudders the speed of reverse can push the rudders to full lock - and then when you go forward the yacht will 'follow' where ver the rudders might be - and this will be unpredicted.

Jonathan

I might have covered that in post #10?

Richard

 

[Irish Rover]

Thanks for all the advice. As it says on the tin I'm a complete virgin when it comes to catamarans or even twin engines so how does one lock the rudders?

 

[Dutch01527]

On my old boat, which had hydrolic steering, I just used to center the rudders and leave it. They never moved.

Twin engines were a pleasure once I realised that you manoeuvre the boat like a twin track digger or tank, if you have ever driven one of those.
I miss twin engines.

 

[RichardS]

Thanks for all the advice. As it says on the tin I'm a complete virgin when it comes to catamarans or even twin engines so how does one lock the rudders?

My Edson wheel has a large chrome knob in the middle of it .... turn it clockwise to lock the wheel and anticlockwise to unlock it.

If your steering is cable like mine and the rudders don't flip to full lock if you let go of the wheel when you reverse, then you almost certainly have a problem with seized rudder bearings or similar which you need to get fixed asap. Hydraulic systems are, indeed, different and will not do the flipping.

Richard

 

[Irish Rover]

Hydraulic systems are, indeed, different and will not do the flipping.

Richard

OK mine is hydraulic so I don't need to worry about that. Thanks.

 

[Neeves]

Sorry Richard,

I'd read your post but forgotten the detail No offence intended!

Jonathan

edit

Am I to understand I have the rudiments to drive a tank?