Buying With Non-Working Hours Meter

[rgsmg53]

I've not checked this forum for some time so please forgive me if this subject has been discussed before. I can't find anything meningful via the forum search.

I'm interested in buying a 17-year old used motor boat with a single Volvo KAMD 43P with shaft drive. The boat looks reasonably well looked after from the broker's photos but the advert clearly states that the engine hour meter is non-functioning. The ad also claims that hours are estimated at 950 - suspiciously just short of 1,000 hours!

If I decide to view, I'll obviously have a good look at the engine and request it is started together with questions on proof of engine maintenance etc and when the last genuine hours reading was taken but I doubt I will get much certainly on the latter.

What do you forumites think about the risk of buying a mobo with uncertain hours and does anyone know whether the total hours are recorded within the Volvo electronics? If so, is it possible to access the register either via a key code or some sort of reader? I'm thinking of something like an OBDII reader on a car or a key-press sequence on a digital camera to reveal number of shutter operations.

Any other advice on assessing engine life remaining and condition gratefully received.

Thanks,

R

 

[Seastoke]

Well at least they are being honest from the off not hiding the fact.

 

[SimonD]

I assume that the boat has the standard VP rev counter with built in hour meter. If so, it's not uncommon for the LCD display to go blank. No need to suspect subterfuge. The display can be fairly easily and cheaply replaced. Units are available on Ebay and YouTube has instructions. I understand that if the display is replaced, it picks up the stored hours reading and shows it. If I'm right (and I'm sure someone will tell me if not) and you're worried about the hours, you could make an offer subject to the owner having the LCD display replaced and the hours being 'reasonable'. All that said, not knowing the hours is just another factor to consider when looking at a prospective purchase. If it's the boat you want, then take this issue into account along with all the other potential issues.

 

[rgsmg53]

Thank you both.

Yes, I agree it is a good start they are being honest about it.

I don't think I was suspecting subtefuge so much as invoking caveat emptor! Having said that, I'm pretty sure that, once the hours count is retrieved, it will be north of 1,000. Any estimate is always going to err on the low side.

I was aware that LCD displays can be replaced (I think there's also someone online who claims to repair them). But, knowing that the hours count must be stored somewhere in a non-volatile memory, I had hoped I might be able to retrieve it without maintenance intervention as fitting a replacement is well within my capabilities.

 

[BruceK]

Honestly? This is not a plant machine. At this age hours are largely irrelevant. I'd take 1500 hours over 500 if the former showed annual maintenance vs the latter showing hourly scheduled maintenance over a 17 year lifetime. Best to just get it in your head this is a 17 year old engine and with care will easily outlive the boat, and if it doesn't take solace that rebuild kits are available, not so much for newer engines, and that you are buying the last of the good old fashioned analogue engines that are almost bulletproof and ever so easy to maintain. Pluses all round. If the engines pass survey and sea trial I wouldn't give a second thought to hours. You have at least another 3000 hours to go before a scheduled rebuild if not double that.

 

[Momac]

Whats the concern about 1000 hrs being exceeded ?
If you buy at 950 hrs you will soon be over the 1000 .

The hour meter display can be replaced while retaining the hours recorded in the instrument so if you are worried just ask for that to be doe.
AK speedo

 

[MapisM]

I believe there was some sort of ECU in the 44, but not in the 42 and 43.
Any half decent VP mechanic should be able to confirm.

Regardless, a 17yo boat powered by a single inboard diesel on shaft makes me guess that she's not a speed demon.
So, I can only second what BruceK just said: an engine with LESS than a thousand hours on a 17yo boat would concern me much more than one regularly used and with twice hours clocked.
Different story if we were talking of a Cigarette with twin turbo petrol engines!

 

[rgsmg53]

I'm not really concerned at 1,000 hours being exceeded - although I would be if it turned out to be 5,000. But, if it is offered for sale as sub-1,000 hours, then that's what I expect it to be and it would be easier if I could validate the actual figure early on in the sale process.

The root of my concern is that in my expereince, once hour meters fail, the basis of hours-based maintenance intervals goes out of the window. Engine manufacturers specify maintenance frequency for a reason.

 

[rgsmg53]

Any half decent VP mechanic should be able to confirm

Is VolvoPaul still on here?

 

[Portofino]

Would an oil analysis and borescope be of any use , comfort if ok ?

Do the necessarily sea trail stipulate any deposits are refundable if either test comes up negative.Set the contract up to reflect .

Maybe give a first look informal look over and ask to collect a oil sample there and then after it’s warmed up demo .
This saves the seller replacing the oil before you return to sample .

If you are then serious start the contract malarkey, wait for your oil sample results before transfer of deposit funds .Then return for the sea trail with an engineer to borescope the cylinders .
In the absence of hr meter the owner should be amenable …..unless it’s a rattly , Smokey , old thing due to 1000 s of hrs on its last legs and the seller was chancing his arm hoping a novice would snap it it with no questions asked .
In which case you have dodged the bullet .

 

[SimonD]

Honestly? This is not a plant machine. At this age hours are largely irrelevant. I'd take 1500 hours over 500 if the former showed annual maintenance vs the latter showing hourly scheduled maintenance over a 17 year lifetime. Best to just get it in your head this is a 17 year old engine and with care will easily outlive the boat, and if it doesn't take solace that rebuild kits are available, not so much for newer engines, and that you are buying the last of the good old fashioned analogue engines that are almost bulletproof and ever so easy to maintain. Pluses all round. If the engines pass survey and sea trial I wouldn't give a second thought to hours. You have at least another 3000 hours to go before a scheduled rebuild if not double that.

Absolutely. In addition, I would expect a boat of this age, with normal leisure use, to have done around 1000 hours. Is there any reason to think it's done significantly more or less? Has it been a charter or school boat for example. If not, put it to the back of the mind and focus on the usual KAD43 problems: do the turbo and compressor work as they should, when was the exhaust elbow changed (if ever), are there signs of leakage around the end caps of the oil cooler, has the coolant been flushed and changed etc.

 

[jrudge]

I have d12s with evc a. The ecu stores the hours as they show on the plotter.

 

[Momac]

I would have thought a single engined boat more likely to be better serviced than twins but nothing is certain.

 

[rgsmg53]

I've spoken to the broker and discovered that the current owner bought her about 18 months ago with the hours meter not working so the latest estimated hours is on top of a previous estimate.

I'm going for a viewing on Friday so I can judge the overall condition of the vessel.

If I take things further then I'll be taking my prefered engine specialist with me.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

 

[jointventureII]

I did this a couple of years ago. It's dual station and both hour meters weren't working. They claimed around 500 hours but I had my doubts. I did some checks myself and took the boat out for a good run. The engine performed very well.

As long as there is service history / evidence of regular maintenance then I'd not be too bothered at all.

As Porto said, an oil sample would be a good idea, do a coolant sample too.

 

[Greg2]

Not much to add to what has already been said other than if a leisure boat it is perhaps more likely to have been serviced every year as opposed to on hours count, it is certainly what I have always done so in reality oil changes far more frequently than required.

I replaced the hour counters on KAD32’s on our last boat and it was a fairly simple DIY job.
.

 

[Momac]

Just thinking 17 years old would make it as young as you would find a kamd43 engine.
For what its worth kad43 or kamd43 probably the best engine ever made by Volvo Penta.

A 17 year old kad engine should still have a potential to look good

Picture is a kad32 but at 18 yrs old and 850hrs or thereabouts

 

[rgsmg53]

It's dual station and both hour meters weren't working.

Very good point! Thank you.

Both broker and I overlooked the fact this one's dual station. I might get lucky but it's equally possible fly bridge rev counter does not have anhour meter.

Re oil analysis - has anyone ever had conclusive results one way or the other? There are going to be traces of wear metals in any engine and, in my view, it is really only valuable if taken at regular intervals to show trends. In my last boat it was impossible to drain the sump completely so even new oil showed potential issues.

 

[rgsmg53]

Picture is a kad32 but at 18 yrs old and 850hrs or thereabouts

Wow! They look brand new. Not sure I'm going find anything looking this good.

Thanks for the info on the 43s.

 

[PeterBoater]

"...estimated at 950 - suspiciously just short of 1,000 hours! " Is it due an expensive service at 1,000 hours?