Buyers dilemma. Big or small

[CharlesM]

Hello all

My love and I are planning to buy a boat and move aboard early next year. Either UK (if we find a boat here) or the Med. Then we will start with a series of day sails to learn. see thread http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=LIVEABOARD&Number=590582&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part= for background.

Anyway, as stated, I have limited experiance (but a day skipper) and my love has none.

A small boat will allow for the early learning stage and prevent her (and me) getting scared and giving it all up.

On the other hand a larger boat is required because Felicity wants big and light and roomy and the boat would ideally take us around the world if it turns out to be the life we want, and as we know, boats can take years to sell...

So - small in my book is 35' and big is 50'. My ideal would be somewhere around 40'. (options that are currently in consideration - 35' Endurance, 40' Falmouth Pilot, 50' Bruice Roberts (all 3 ferro), 43' Galapagos (anyone have any feedback on these), 43' Bruice roberts (both steel) etc.

What do I give more weighting? Small for ease of learning and handling, or bigger for living room and comfort?

We are both fairly confident, but I am not sure my love (or maybe even me) is aware of how tricky it could be to moor a large boat. - I imagine the first months we may be marina animals until comfortable and confident.

How long would it take a couple to reach the confidence level when living aboard?

The crux orf the matter is keeping her happy - then we keep sailing.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Charles

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[Marsupial]

Any reply to this type post will be very subjective, but I would suggest that an Endurance 35 is too small for that design of boat, the endurance needs to be over 45ft to work properly below decks. - BUT its a good seaworthy design . . . .

A "med boat" might not be a circumnavigator - see what's in the med - lots of mass-produced GRP stuff mostly French or German.

Charter a few in different places and see how you get on - we did from 31ft to 47ft in the med and the Caribbean and decided that on balance a 43ft Jeanneau would be a good compromise - for the Med. Accommodation OK, sails OK, can be easily maintained, and easily sold if required. But that was our second attempt - first attempt was a Jeanneau 37, which sailed very well but is just a bit too small (for us).

With "unlimited funds" my ideal would be the 53ft Amel Maramu - but that’s my view.

Good luck


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[ccscott49]

I would tend to agree with you, for me 44 feet is minimum liveaboard size. But remember this, as the size increases, so do the costs, they in fact spiral out of control, berthing etc, etc. That is the reason I'm going dow2n to 45/6 feet, 57 is just too unmanageable, for one anyway!

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[tcm]

I would go large, not small. Big boats get *much* bigger spaces (proportionally) and far more help. But in fact, their inertia is greater so they are actually more predictable. Above 65 ish feet it all becomes a bit too much hoovering, but below that sort of figure, bigger is better imho.

The ooer factor of how on earth you will be able to control it is quite a normal first reaction. But get crew along and/or have on-boat training and it all becomes easy - and note that bigger boats are often that much quicker to move around - on larger boats you can even break into a run, not so on sub 50footers.

Nonetheless, it can feel like driving a house around, and of course - it is. Perhaps acclimatise yourself by *pretending* to drive your house around and go from there. Using this method I manged to reverese Buckingham Palace all the way down The Mall, parked a few boring islands neatly out of the way off the west coast of scotland, and although I mucked up reversing the IOW up southampton water where is obviously belongs (pesky bramble bank!) - a fifty foot boat is a doddle compared to all this

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[pragmatist]

To coin an old phrase, I'm not sure size is what counts ! Given that the internal volume of a trad boat like some you've mentioned is a fraction of the size of say a Bavaria perhaps the type of boat, its sailing characteristics and home comforts are more important.

We had quite specific requirements when we bought - and I still wonder if we did the right thing. We chose a trad boat - sea-kindly and tough (Rival) but when I see the tea-dance you could have in a Bavaria or similar I do wonder.

If I were you I'd sit down with a glass of something nice and play "list the things that you thing matter". Plainly you won't get them all but it's almost more important to rule out the "I couldn't bear that" bits than to choose the bits you'd really like.

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[trouville]

when i bought my 40 footer it was big, as then most livaboards had 32 to 40, soon after that the average size increesed to 50 +

At 40 you have a very comfortable livaboard hot shower small washing machine genenerator (small) over 12 meters a lot of ports next cat is 15 and expensive fewer places. Remember as well in the med you cant antifoul twice a day! and my 40 foot has often been close to the maximum lift for reasonable priced yards or port crains. Travell lifts not so wide spread and cost more.
Cement has problems with rusting iron and steal tends to be heavy (and on anodes) plastics great! woods better!

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[mocruising]

I posted a similar question about 7 months ago and rx some very useful stuff. Read back "does size really matter" I ended up with a 46' boat with all the bits you need for blue water which is perfect for two to sail. The best bit of advice was to go for the longest water line length you can afford.

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[Abigail]

Couple of points the other way:

(i) it is not only the loa or lwl that matter but things like the rig. Eg we have a ketch and were absolutely clear we wanted a ketch or cutter to reduce the sail size and give us more choices for handling. This is really important if your partner (or you) want to be happy about handling sails alone on a night watch. And to be honest, roller furling does not fully deal with this issue. And if your boat is bigger your sails are bigger ...

(ii) anchor size. If you read the Pardey's article about Cabo San Lucas after the hurricane which destroyed Motissier's stell ketch 'Joshua' (it's in one of the three 'how to' books but can't now remember which one) they make a very powerful argument that says that the maximum anchor you can really imagine getting up in a hurry is a key issue. This is max anchor for a fully loaded liveaboard cruising boat (ie add some 2 tons!).

(iii) cost, as someone else has mentioned, is a real factor given charges in marinas. Eg in Balearics, winter electricity is free under 12m and not over 12m.

(iv) Additional legislation of various kinds kicks in in both US and EU over 12m.

(v) one of the great joys of living aboard is hugely less housework. The bigger the boat the less this is true. Your partner may have a view on this point too.

(vi) internal volume and sailability can be very close related. A large transom will be noisier and less comfortable in a seaway for instance. So what you and your partner want to do in sailing terms may take priority over your wishes for certain type of layout.

I am not an advocate of Pardey/Annie Hill like simplicity - because I could be accused of rank hypocrisy with my laptops, oven etc! But I do think there is a lot of truth in not loading yourselves with kit that means you cannot leave port without expensive repairs. This can include freezers, electric winches etc.

So we stuck at 40' and find this plenty of room for two of us with two cats. Even living aboard during a British winter.

Have fun looking

<hr width=100% size=1>Sarah & Pip

www.greatlittleboats.com
UK & Ireland distributors of Swifgig

 

[CharlesM]

Hi All

Thanks for the advice. I do think we will look for something around 40', but will not rule out 43' or so.

Sarah & Pip. I fully agree with simplicity. I do want some creature comforts, but when it comes to electric loo's and electric roller furling etc I certainly would prefer not to have them, perhaps even going as far as fitting manual systems in place of the electric ones.

OK - so now the size issue is settled, where do I get the boat in my budget? The ones I had my eyes on this year seem to be gone, and no good ones have come up to replace them.

Aah whell, I guess one thing I have learnt is when spotting the boat that looks appropriate, do not snooze, but get right in there before someone else does.

Cheers
Charles

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