jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
But how many weather forecasts have you missed? And, crucially, have you ever arrived at the pub just as it closes?
British Summer Time
- Thread starter Nostrodamus
- Start date
But how many weather forecasts have you missed? And, crucially, have you ever arrived at the pub just as it closes?
Ianhampshire
Well-Known Member
Britain (and Portugal) are the two countries out of step with the rest of Europe by holding on to GMT and BST (GMT+1).
There will never be 100% agreement in the UK on moving to GMT+1 in winter and GMT+2 in the summer as for various reasons people hold differing views.
However, any business doing trade with/in Europe would benefit from being on the same time scale as their suppliers/customers/clients/partners etc.
To me though, the more important question is whether the majority of people would prefer to have their daylight during the summer months in the morning or the evening ?
If we take Southampton as an example, and look at mid-summers day, we see that officially sunrise is at 04:51 and sunset at 21:23. In reality we get about half an hour of useful additional daylight at both ends. Hence it 'gets light' at around 04:20 and dark by around 21:53.
If we adopted the same time as Europe in summer (GMT+2) then it would get light around 05:20 and dark by around 22:53. Personally, any light that is around before 06:00 is wasted on 95% of the population but many more people would benefit and enjoy the longer summer evenings surely.
The counter argument is of course during the winter for those who live in Scotland and the Scottish Islands. It is probably not practical to have Scotland on a different time zone to the rest of the UK (although the SNP may disagree ?) so if we look at Inverness in mid Winter, we get the following times :
Official sunrise at 08:57 and official sunset at 15:33. When we add the additional half hour of light (dusk and dawn) we get sunrise at 08:27 and sunset at 16:03. The argument used most often in Scotland against changing to European time is that of school children going to school in the dark. To this I would note that :
(a) School children in Scandinavia, Denmark, Northern Germany and Poland all seem to manage quite well and I don't believe Scottish kids are any different to their European counterparts.
(b) Looking at the current mid winter times then it seems they already go to school in the dark and return in the dark
Adding one hour to GMT in winter would at least mean that they have a chance of coming home in daylight even if the morning was still dark.
I know that agreement on this is futile but I do really believe it should be done on the basis of the majority as befits the democracy we live in. I for one would love that extra hours daylight on a summer evening in preference to getting up at 04:00 to do so !
There will never be 100% agreement in the UK on moving to GMT+1 in winter and GMT+2 in the summer as for various reasons people hold differing views.
However, any business doing trade with/in Europe would benefit from being on the same time scale as their suppliers/customers/clients/partners etc.
To me though, the more important question is whether the majority of people would prefer to have their daylight during the summer months in the morning or the evening ?
If we take Southampton as an example, and look at mid-summers day, we see that officially sunrise is at 04:51 and sunset at 21:23. In reality we get about half an hour of useful additional daylight at both ends. Hence it 'gets light' at around 04:20 and dark by around 21:53.
If we adopted the same time as Europe in summer (GMT+2) then it would get light around 05:20 and dark by around 22:53. Personally, any light that is around before 06:00 is wasted on 95% of the population but many more people would benefit and enjoy the longer summer evenings surely.
The counter argument is of course during the winter for those who live in Scotland and the Scottish Islands. It is probably not practical to have Scotland on a different time zone to the rest of the UK (although the SNP may disagree ?) so if we look at Inverness in mid Winter, we get the following times :
Official sunrise at 08:57 and official sunset at 15:33. When we add the additional half hour of light (dusk and dawn) we get sunrise at 08:27 and sunset at 16:03. The argument used most often in Scotland against changing to European time is that of school children going to school in the dark. To this I would note that :
(a) School children in Scandinavia, Denmark, Northern Germany and Poland all seem to manage quite well and I don't believe Scottish kids are any different to their European counterparts.
(b) Looking at the current mid winter times then it seems they already go to school in the dark and return in the dark
Adding one hour to GMT in winter would at least mean that they have a chance of coming home in daylight even if the morning was still dark.
I know that agreement on this is futile but I do really believe it should be done on the basis of the majority as befits the democracy we live in. I for one would love that extra hours daylight on a summer evening in preference to getting up at 04:00 to do so !
pjobson
Active Member
I work flexible hours and can therefore work to any time I like and I set my watch accordingly. The trouble with my current setting is that my wife keeps waking me at 03:00 to have dinner.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
Looked at another way, it's only custom that decrees we work 9 - 5, or 8 - 4, or whatever. There is nothing stopping society from adjusting working hours to 6 - 2, giving hours of evening daylight, except the fuss that people would make.
In China, which has a greater span of longitude than the whole of Europe, all clocks have the same time. Working almost on the western border I rose at 1000 and went to bed at about 0100, with a working day of about 1100 to 2000.
In China, which has a greater span of longitude than the whole of Europe, all clocks have the same time. Working almost on the western border I rose at 1000 and went to bed at about 0100, with a working day of about 1100 to 2000.
Rowana
Two steps lower than the ships' cat
But how many weather forecasts have you missed? And, crucially, have you ever arrived at the pub just as it closes?
I also always keep the ships clock on GMT, and I've never missed a forecast yet because they always announce it on ch 16 first, and tell which channel to go to.
As for missing the pub, I'm afraid that I have to take that many pills and potions for my heart condition that I'm not really allowed to go to the pub so it doesn't matter. I am allowed a small nightcap on board however, and that's just fine with me.
25931
Well-Known Member
But how many weather forecasts have you missed? And, crucially, have you ever arrived at the pub just as it closes?
None & no but then I do live in Portugal where there is always an establishment open.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
I just don't buy the economic argument for changing to BST+2, the US has 5 time zones and their economy seems to work OK.
To me it is the moving away from the natural timing of the day, ie noon in UMT is defined by the sun being at its zenith, that convinces me we should leave things as they are.
However, I'd be amenable to any suggestion as to how we could move the UK about 15 degrees closer to the equator....
boomerangben
Well-Known Member
Exactly. If the politicians think it would be a good vote winner to get more evening light, then change the hours we work. We then might align our hours with some other European countries. But most of all we wouldn't have to change the clocks and I wouldn't have to exist in two different time zones at work during the summer. A right royal pain in the behind.
FistralG
Well-Known Member
As a person who works from 8:30am to 7pm then having an extra hour of light in the evening would be much appreciated.
Coaster
Well-Known Member
Can you not work from 7.30am to 6pm instead?
Nostrodamus
Well-Known Member
Well I am glad we all agree that we all want either to stay the same or change.
As I see it we could let Scotland have its independence which would get rid of one problem and they could live in whatever time zone they want. Then we could let the government make everyone unemployed which will save the problem of getting up for work and aligning our businesses with Europe. We could let pubs stay open longer and then everybody could be happy.
I am not sure what to do with Oxford as they have adopted their own time zone which has always been out of kilter with everyone else.
As I see it we could let Scotland have its independence which would get rid of one problem and they could live in whatever time zone they want. Then we could let the government make everyone unemployed which will save the problem of getting up for work and aligning our businesses with Europe. We could let pubs stay open longer and then everybody could be happy.
I am not sure what to do with Oxford as they have adopted their own time zone which has always been out of kilter with everyone else.
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Yes - adopt CET...
Only fotherington-thomas wants to be Uropeen but he is wet and weedy and sing "helo clouds, helo sky helo French time" all da
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
Only fotherington-thomas wants to be Uropeen but he is wet and weedy and sing "helo clouds, helo sky helo French time" all da
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Any business doing trade with Europe really should employ people who can at least do basic arithmetic.
One of the things that came out of the Irish debt crisis was that Ireland is actually our largest export market in Europe & they're on the same time as the UK and aren't going to switch (they're actually on IST although a majority do talk in terms of GMT/BST & Portugal are on WET).
You'll also find that a number of countries in the EU are two hours ahead of the UK.
I worked for a company that exported worldwide for nearly ten years, it really wasn't difficult to handle the timezone differences with a bit of imagination.
On the other hand I have a clear recollection as a very young kid of going to school in the pitch black the last time a complete ar$ehole altered the timezone (I think it was Harold Wilson that time). And that was on the eastern side of England before you start victimising the Jocks for being awkward.
Ianhampshire
Well-Known Member
I would stress that I am not saying that business across timezones is impossible, what I am saying is that it becomes easier and more efficient.
The point about Ireland is interesting. Being further west than mainland UK their mornings are already darker than ours are whilst they get the benefit of the longer evening light. As their largest trading partner, they maintain the same time as the UK. If we changed to CET it would give them a problem as for them to also change would make a winters morning very dark. 09:40 sunrise in Dublin with CET and even later in the west of Ireland. Mid summer of course would see sunset at 22:57 in Dublin and later further west.
Having grown up in Falmouth and then living in Chatham, Aberdeen and now Northern Germany, I have experienced various dark/light mornings/evenings. My view of the attractiveness in the UK changing its timezone is purely about the quality of life to the majority of people (but still not everyone I know !).
Those countries that are 2 hours ahead of the UK are in the south of Europe which is not really comparable to our situation.
As for going to school in the dark, I am sure most European school kids, who start school at 08:00 and not 09:00 as in the UK, have never given a second thought about leaving for school in the dark. I certainly never thought about at 06:00 every morning on my paper round.
As I started my first post by saying, there will never be 100% agreement on this issue, so instead of leaving it to politicians to decide, maybe its a good one for Joe public to decide on ?
The point about Ireland is interesting. Being further west than mainland UK their mornings are already darker than ours are whilst they get the benefit of the longer evening light. As their largest trading partner, they maintain the same time as the UK. If we changed to CET it would give them a problem as for them to also change would make a winters morning very dark. 09:40 sunrise in Dublin with CET and even later in the west of Ireland. Mid summer of course would see sunset at 22:57 in Dublin and later further west.
Having grown up in Falmouth and then living in Chatham, Aberdeen and now Northern Germany, I have experienced various dark/light mornings/evenings. My view of the attractiveness in the UK changing its timezone is purely about the quality of life to the majority of people (but still not everyone I know !).
Those countries that are 2 hours ahead of the UK are in the south of Europe which is not really comparable to our situation.
As for going to school in the dark, I am sure most European school kids, who start school at 08:00 and not 09:00 as in the UK, have never given a second thought about leaving for school in the dark. I certainly never thought about at 06:00 every morning on my paper round.
As I started my first post by saying, there will never be 100% agreement on this issue, so instead of leaving it to politicians to decide, maybe its a good one for Joe public to decide on ?
