Navigation

[Wansworth]

Just watched a video of a sailor coasting down the Dutch coast in the dark and Wasimpressed by how the new electronic navigation presented a clear view of where he was and where everything else was and gave a track to the harbour of his choice.ObviouslyI am behind the times but navigation and knowing where you where was the first essential item and worry especially somewhere like the flat Dutch coast but the screen has taken all that away presenting an almost video game format to what was a big hindrance to inexperienced navigators.If I had had such a device sailing along the dark Galician rock bound coast would have been much easier!But the observation I wanted to make is going to sea having eliminated the basic question of “where am I” takes some of the skill and should I say fear of putting to sea.In my next boat I will certainly be screwing a screen to the bulkhead

 

[johnalison]

There were in effect two phases between ye olden days and the present. From being permanently lost we first got Decca followed by GPS, meaning that we mostly knew roughly or exactly where we were at the press of a button and a squint at the chart. We now have the situation where we can, as you say, turn sailing into a video game. Along with AIS instead of relatively expensive radar, this means that most of the anxiety of going to sea has been relieved. I think that on the whole I am pleased for those now new to cruising and it remains to be seen to what extent this is going to de-skill leisure sailors.

My guess is that it will be making sailing safer and less tiring for the majority but that a few instances of sailors coming to grief unnecessarily will come to light. I said less tiring rather than more enjoyable because there is a kind of satisfaction to be gained from old-fashioned navigation and pilotage which will be missing except to those who want to exercise their skills.

 

[cherod]

Just watched a video of a sailor coasting down the Dutch coast in the dark and Wasimpressed by how the new electronic navigation presented a clear view of where he was and where everything else was and gave a track to the harbour of his choice.ObviouslyI am behind the times but navigation and knowing where you where was the first essential item and worry especially somewhere like the flat Dutch coast but the screen has taken all that away presenting an almost video game format to what was a big hindrance to inexperienced navigators.If I had had such a device sailing along the dark Galician rock bound coast would have been much easier!But the observation I wanted to make is going to sea having eliminated the basic question of “where am I” takes some of the skill and should I say fear of putting to sea.In my next boat I will certainly be screwing a screen to the bulkhead

( unless i have missed something ) might i say “ where have you been “ ? , are you referring to navionics ? , which has been on the go for 7 years to my knowledge

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Just watched a video of a sailor coasting down the Dutch coast in the dark and Wasimpressed by how the new electronic navigation presented a clear view of where he was and where everything else was and gave a track to the harbour of his choice.ObviouslyI am behind the times but navigation and knowing where you where was the first essential item and worry especially somewhere like the flat Dutch coast but the screen has taken all that away presenting an almost video game format to what was a big hindrance to inexperienced navigators.If I had had such a device sailing along the dark Galician rock bound coast would have been much easier!But the observation I wanted to make is going to sea having eliminated the basic question of “where am I” takes some of the skill and should I say fear of putting to sea.In my next boat I will certainly be screwing a screen to the bulkhead

I have been navigating on paper for 50 odd years, including the last 15 years with a dodgy plotter. A couple of years ago I bought a lovely Axiom+ 12, large screen, with Lighthouse charts. I back that up with an iPad with Navionics (plus Memory Maps UK Raster charts) clipped on beside the Axiom. Both are in the cockpit, but away from the wheel.

The convenience, back up security, and simple ease of navigating is astounding. I recently entered a narrow loch, with a big reef extending into the narrow passage, shoal on opposite side, about 5 kts of current flowing in. The reef used to be marked with a sector light on a perch, which made avoiding it easy. That light has long gone and instead of dicking about with clearing lines from a distant object using paper charts, I just steered around the reef based on plotter arrow visuals of ships head versus ground track, all the time enjoying the view with minimum navigation invasive practises. Also when sailing on auto helm the plotter calculates offset course due to ground track and sets the head as required to counter, adjusting as it changes.

Full time paper only navigation, or even as a back up, is out of date, inefficient and more at risk of error enforcing calculations.

 

[wonkywinch]

It happened in commercial aviation some time ago. Search for "children of the magenta line".

The magenta line (or "pink string" as we used to call it) being the course overlaid on our ND (nav display).

 

[cherod]

Amazing to read this thread , a couple of years ago the old hands were ridiculing those of us using the “ new fangled , un reliable , complicated etc etc “ electronic set ups , oh how things have changed

 

[Biggles Wader]

Amazing to read this thread , a couple of years ago the old hands were ridiculing those of us using the “ new fangled , un reliable , complicated etc etc “ electronic set ups , oh how things have changed

Really? I can remember using a (?Magellan) GPS back in the late 1980s along with paper charts. I still use paper by choice especially locally and I don't have a chartplotter. I do have a GPS in case of need but use it rarely. I certainly would not ridicule anyone for using electronics.

 

[cherod]

Really? I can remember using a (?Magellan) GPS back in the late 1980s along with paper charts. I still use paper by choice especially locally and I don't have a chartplotter. I do have a GPS in case of need but use it rarely. I certainly would not ridicule anyone for using electronics.

Really ? , maybe you did maybe you didnt , maybe you would maybe you wouldnt , but it was common place on here

 

[Biggles Wader]

Really? I don't remember much ridiculing a couple of years ago. Who was responsible for that?

 

[Wansworth]

Amazing to read this thread , a couple of years ago the old hands were ridiculing those of us using the “ new fangled , un reliable , complicated etc etc “ electronic set ups , oh how things have changed

I have been away

 

[cherod]

Really? I don't remember much ridiculing a couple of years ago. Who was responsible for that?

Do you think i was taking notes ?

 

[Wansworth]

Anyway if I get a boat I will be installing a screen,one has to keep up to date !

 

[cherod]

Anyway if I get a boat I will be installing a screen,one has to keep up to date !

An i pad with built in gps is all that is needed

 

[cherod]

Of course maybe i pad is out of date / fashion

 

[DownWest]

I have been away

In a sense, I have too. Bought up in the non safe paper, bearings and hoping to see lights. (Ran into a sandbank down wind in the Thames Esturary in the early 60s) Continued with paper and inspired guesses, several from Portugal to Med, including one from Sardinia to France with one of those green school atlases and a compass and spinning log. (not reccomended..) We had a PilotPal radio with the twerly antenna on top, but no info on where the transmitters were. Our only attempt at a fix put us well inland.. Tried Consul in the 60s, not much confort there.
Def moved up the techno since then, with a Garmin 72 and Yeoman , since I don't now go offshore (but might, next year to Brittany..) It is mostly visual with ref to paper in small boats
Discussion with a sailing friend a couple of days ago. He was thinking of a plotter for his newly built Sharpie 600, but after having a blast sailing his older mini gaff cutter with others around Loctudy and the Ils de Glenan, he wondered if it was worth it.. My comment was, he had planned each leg before and looked at all the sharp bits that abound there. So, what if he changed his plans due to (what-ever)? A plotter would open up other avenues with all the info for a safe divert.

 

[Wansworth]

A Spanish friend who sailed with me and then some Americans thought my sailing was near to Columba’s in not quite knowing what was next!

 

[veshengro]

It's all of no account now to me, as I don't intend sailing anywhere apart from pottering about in the Estuary, but I found myself caught in a bit of a crossfire as far as Navigation was concerned. I only ever used a GPS and plotted the positions on a paper chart as I had no Plotter or similar. I used eyeball compass navigation when close inshore, and I liked doing distance off with a Sextant just for amusement. In the meantime new electronic kit arrived every day it seemed and I never did learn to use it. Someone was going to teach me how to put Way Points on a plotter thing but he had problems elsewhere so those lessons were never learned.
I was well aware that a little knowledge can be a bad thing, so rather than try to learn the new techniques I stayed away, working on the theory that at least I was competent with the old system, but to try fiddling with a system that I didn't know could result in me berthing in Piccadilly Circus.
Now it doesn't matter, although I might get one of those small technicolour hand held plotters that all the local angling boats seem to use.

 

[Seven Spades]

There were in effect two phases between ye olden days and the present. From being permanently lost we first got Decca followed by GPS, meaning that we mostly knew roughly or exactly where we were at the press of a button and a squint at the chart. We now have the situation where we can, as you say, turn sailing into a video game. Along with AIS instead of relatively expensive radar, this means that most of the anxiety of going to sea has been relieved. I think that on the whole I am pleased for those now new to cruising and it remains to be seen to what extent this is going to de-skill leisure sailors.

My guess is that it will be making sailing safer and less tiring for the majority but that a few instances of sailors coming to grief unnecessarily will come to light. I said less tiring rather than more enjoyable because there is a kind of satisfaction to be gained from old-fashioned navigation and pilotage which will be missing except to those who want to exercise their skills.

Actually I have to say we use radar at night and in fog. It is not safe to rely on AIS. AIS is indeed more accurate than radar and it is brilliant at forecasting CPA's but there are many vessels out there not broadcasting their position and you need radar particularly if visibility is poor. I can usually spot a vessel on radar way before I can see its lights. Having both gives me great confidence.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Which is fine all the time it is working.

I've been on a couple of lifeboat jobs this year where a plotter has conked out. On one of them, the singlehanded skipper couldn't see his mobile phone screen in the bright sunlight, he was unfamiliar with the area, the breeze was getting up, he didn't have any paper charts as a back up, and large sandbanks were starting to appear all around him as the tide ebbed.

 

[Wansworth]

On the dredger I sailed on the mate spent so much time looking at the radar we nearly wiped out a fishi g boat