Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[Tranona]

It’s exactly where we are in relation to the engine, we keep going back and forth and always seem to come back to the exact same argument.
It’s an interesting discussion. Prices asked for engines are COMPLETELY unreasonable from a technical point of view. And considering that most engines offer NOTHING in terms of a superior advancement to the auto industry. I find myself at odds with my wallet and brain. Paying over the price of a small car for a 30 HP engine does not in anyway sound like a good decision.
PLUS it’s like asking the M.A.F.I.A for a price list for a reference. “ Well we have to see ..what you need… because its so special, but we will make you an offer you cant refuse “ type of price for even a Beta.

Not sure you are thinking straight. A 30hp engine complete with gearbox and all the bits to keep it cool costs under £4k - about half the price of a new car. The requirements for a yacht auxiliary are not really related to a car, so not sure what "improvements" you are thinking about - little of recent developments in small car engines have any impact on yacht requirements which is why automotive engines are not used as bases for small hp engines.

However remember these things are made in the thousands a year rather than the millions which accounts for much of the cost differential. If you think there is profiteering then suggest you look at the number of manufacturers who have gone out of business trying to make a profit out of this fringe business. It only works because most engines are derived from industrial units. I remember one base engine supplier reminding one of his biggest marinisers that his total purchases represented a day's work a year at his engine plant.

In terms of value for money, though this is a product that in a harsh environment will give you up to 40 years of good reliable service IF you instal it properly using the correct components.

This maxim, of course applies to just about every thing to do with a boat.

Don't spend now doing it properly and the regret will be with you as long as you own the boat.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Before you fit the engine - paint the bilge! (Might be a bit previous!).

 

[ghostlymoron]

"The only downside to a BMC is that they are 30 years old so you are dependent on spares from odd places"
I disagree, I've known 2 boats with BMC Captain engines, basically a black cab engine, both were absolute pigs to start but ran beautifully once running. Additionally, my mate who has a Countess 33 replaced his BMC four years ago with a yanmar 3GM and says he's very glad he did.

 

[Tranona]

"The only downside to a BMC is that they are 30 years old so you are dependent on spares from odd places"
I disagree, I've known 2 boats with BMC Captain engines, basically a black cab engine, both were absolute pigs to start but ran beautifully once running. Additionally, my mate who has a Countess 33 replaced his BMC four years ago with a yanmar 3GM and says he's very glad he did.

What are you disagreeing with?

Can't see a connection between the quoted statement and your observations.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm disagreeing with "the only", there's many reasons not to fit a BMC.

What are you disagreeing with?

Can't see a connection between the quoted statement and your observations.

 

[Tranona]

I'm disagreeing with "the only", there's many reasons not to fit a BMC.

Personally I agree and would not fit one now, but many people do, particularly in canal boats and are very happy with them. I was making the specific point about spares being something you have little control over. As the number of units in use falls availability of spares becomes a bigger problem.

 

[doug748]

It’s exactly where we are in relation to the engine, we keep going back and forth and always seem to come back to the exact same argument.
It’s an interesting discussion. Prices asked for engines are COMPLETELY unreasonable from a technical point of view. And considering that most engines offer NOTHING in terms of a superior advancement to the auto industry. I find myself at odds with my wallet and brain. Paying over the price of a small car for a 30 HP engine does not in anyway sound like a good decision.
PLUS it’s like asking the M.A.F.I.A for a price list for a reference. “ Well we have to see ..what you need… because its so special, but we will make you an offer you cant refuse “ type of price for even a Beta.

A chum of mine, a farmer, bought his new engine through the agricultural trade and marinised it himself. You can get a 700cc Kubota for about £2,000 ish, what you do about VAT is between yourself and your God.
Of course you have the aggravation and have to find a gearbox etc. Just a thought but not a telling saving over Beta prices in my view.

 

[Keith 66]

I have just watched the first video, Now i have quite a bit of experience with boats having been in the trade since i left falmouth tech in 79, i have built wooden boats, grp boats, & spent quite some years doing heavy duty repairs & rebuilds to insurance write offs. So i can say i probably have seen it all.
This Colvic has obviously been flooded probably up to her waterline & has spent probably many years as a garden pond. And so every wooden thing in it will be rotten, bulkheads, furniture, the lot, the stringers are probably foam & will be waterlogged as well. Is there any balsa core in the hull or deck? is it waterlogged?
First thing is skip & rip everything out, You will need several heavy duty angle grinders & can expect to spend the rest of this summer cutting & grinding fibreglass, it is hot, filthy, itchy work & i am glad you have a decent air fed respirator as you will be living in it for quite a while!
The reality is you have bought a cheap? hull & deck, A 20k budget is hopelessly unrealistic, Best of luck.

 

[GregOddity]

Ladies and gents, we’ve been reading and considering, and to be honest it’s all great advice! I disagree with some things said, I agree with others, and some made me and US think and question our decisions.
On the Engine: we’ve really been struggling with this one but seem to be on the process of changing our minds after reading some of the opinions and advice here.
We will probably go a different way. My personal opinion is that we are in 2018 and need to go with the times. So were probably going to get a diesel engine out of a cheap second-hand car to drive an Alternator to power an Electric engine. Having a power bank that can power the boat at least for 30m to 1H in case of emergency at full throttle. We will NOT marinize the engine in the conventional way Were probably going to go High tech on that, cheap and less to corrode. No impeller changes at 500 hours etc.
That seems to be where WE think we should be.

 

[GregOddity]

On other news. could not find the Hin or Hull number, got to strip the boat completely as it may very well be hidden. There are parts of the hull still covered and some stuff that need out.

 

[pvb]

So were probably going to get a diesel engine out of a cheap second-hand car to drive an Alternator to power an Electric engine. Having a power bank that can power the boat at least for 30m to 1H in case of emergency at full throttle.

I just knew you both had great senses of humour! You'd only need about 60 x 100Ah batteries.

 

[RichardS]

So were probably going to get a diesel engine out of a cheap second-hand car to drive an Alternator to power an Electric engine. Having a power bank that can power the boat at least for 30m to 1H in case of emergency at full throttle. We will NOT marinize the engine in the conventional way. No impeller changes at 500 hours etc.

I suspect that the most difficult aspect of marinising the engine is cooling it, and surely you will still need a heat exchanger and an impeller to do that?

Richard

 

[pvb]

I suspect that the most difficult aspect of marinising the engine is cooling it, and surely you will still need a heat exchanger and an impeller to do that?

Not necessarily, they may be thinking of keeping the car radiator and having a big vent in the stern where the hot air comes out, perhaps funnelled so it gives extra thrust....

 

[fredrussell]

There’s a nice looking Volvo MD2020 engine for sale on Facebook for sale page. That any good to you? It’s £1500.

 

[NormanB]

Ladies and gents, we’ve been reading and considering, and to be honest it’s all great advice! I disagree with some things said, I agree with others, and some made me and US think and question our decisions.
On the Engine: we’ve really been struggling with this one but seem to be on the process of changing our minds after reading some of the opinions and advice here.
We will probably go a different way. My personal opinion is that we are in 2018 and need to go with the times. So were probably going to get a diesel engine out of a cheap second-hand car to drive an Alternator to power an Electric engine. Having a power bank that can power the boat at least for 30m to 1H in case of emergency at full throttle. We will NOT marinize the engine in the conventional way Were probably going to go High tech on that, cheap and less to corrode. No impeller changes at 500 hours etc.
That seems to be where WE think we should be.

Please do not do this.
If you want to complete the work in a reasonable timescale and to a reasonable budget you need to keep things simple and remove all forms of ‘innovation’ that do not confer a cost or time advantage.
There are no known cost or performance advantages of a diesel electric drive in a sailboat but there are complexities of control that will increase costs, time of project and reliability.

Going fully electric without a diesel whatsoever obviously has an appeal as it gets rid of a diesel and the associated tankage albeit some of that space has to be given back to batteries. Of course you then have to rely on the sun/wind for your energy and your range will be extremely limited (final approach to marina sort of thing). Have a look at Sailing Uma on YT this is exactly what they do with some success and are content to operate within the severe constraints that the installation imposes. To improve the performance and range of an electrical installation would mean installing a helluva lot of Lithium Ion Batteries -a whole load of solar panels, probably a Watt &Sea hydro generator and the range would still be a shadow of that offered by a traditional diesel installation. All of that lot would cost many times that of the traditional diesel route.

 

[Tranona]

Ladies and gents, we’ve been reading and considering, and to be honest it’s all great advice! I disagree with some things said, I agree with others, and some made me and US think and question our decisions.
On the Engine: we’ve really been struggling with this one but seem to be on the process of changing our minds after reading some of the opinions and advice here.
We will probably go a different way. My personal opinion is that we are in 2018 and need to go with the times. So were probably going to get a diesel engine out of a cheap second-hand car to drive an Alternator to power an Electric engine. Having a power bank that can power the boat at least for 30m to 1H in case of emergency at full throttle. We will NOT marinize the engine in the conventional way Were probably going to go High tech on that, cheap and less to corrode. No impeller changes at 500 hours etc.
That seems to be where WE think we should be.

I thought you were getting to grips with what is involved, but doubts are returning.

If you really think your proposal is simple and effective explain to me why NOBODY has made such a thing work.

You clearly have no understanding of what is involved and suggest you look at the few hybrid power units that have been developed before you start wasting time on trying to outsmart them. None of these despite their technical attributes have been commercially successful for cost, size, efficiency and complexity reasons.

A small(ish) properly marinised diesel engine IS the 2018 way of powering a sailing boat.

 

[zoidberg]

Mr T. is so right.

But..... And.... There's another way. Several well-respected liveaboards with some impressive voyages to their names - and some seminal books, too - have sailed and cruised tens of thousands of miles with no engine whatsoever. They relied on their judgement and skills.

Lots of sailors are quite capable of operating under sail only.... and have demonstrated it. Research Lin and Larry Pardey's voyages in 'Taliesin'..... 'Voyaging On A Small Income' by Annie Hill.

There's a 'hybrid' approach to that, which others have used. They have hung a beefy outboard engine bracket on the transom, and fitted a 10hp outboard. They used that only for the close quarters maneuvering they really couldn't do under sail.

That's a long way from an ideal solution..... but it does work, after a fashion, and cheaply.

 

[lpdsn]

Presumably there'll be an ongoing cost for the hull to sit in the marina's yard - the eBay ad said that was £245 a month, that's about £3K for every year of what will be a long process.

The OP should look at getting that down for a start. Making a complete finger in the air assumption that they spend three years on the project, which is likely still optimistic, that would be £9K to the yard. Better to truck it somewhere cheaper to work on it then truck it back when finished.

That said, I suspect the best overall approach would be to sell it for a couple of hundred quid, add that to the £20K and buy a seaworthy boat for £20,200. Could easily get a Sigma 33 for that, for example.

 

[dom]

Better to truck it somewhere cheaper to work on it then truck it back when finished.

“If there's something weird
And it don't look good
Who you gonna call?
Brent’s fibreglass cousin!

I ain't afraid of no wreck”

 

[Tim O]

I have a Countess 33! Lovely boat...if you are ever around Cardiff you are welcome to come and take a peek...or if there is anything in particular you'd like some info/photos on, let me know. Havent read all this yet but Good Luck!